Are factory errors still happening? Missed lettering on a U28C. (Not meant to bash QC!)

I have a Lione "Lionel Lines" CA-4 style caboose that's missing a Lionel logo on one side  Didn't realize until quite a bit later.  I think it's cool, but I doubt it's worth any more because of it.

Lionel Legacy GP30 missing the "H" in C ESSIE. Errors happen.

hahah thats awesome

Congratulations!!! IMO finding a factory error is like hitting the collector's jack pot.

I personally know a few dealers that open every sealed box they get looking for errors. Sometimes hundreds of boxes in a delivery. If a customer asks why the item they are buying isn't sealed the dealer tells them it was opened to make sure it wasn't broken.

Congratulations!!! IMO finding a factory error is like hitting the collector's jack pot.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.  The quality control was much better in the American made Lionel days.  They didn't have many factory errors which is why they became prized collectibles.

 

I have a Lionel Standard O Santa Fe F3 that is missing the Santa Fe indicated in this picture on just one side. 

 

 

Because there is such a quality control problem with Chinese products, to me it is just another mistake.  When I originally found the error, I called around to other knowledgeable collector friends and they felt the same way.  It's one thing for a made in the USA error, it is another for a made in China error.

I ended up buying TWO Lionel Legacy U-30Cs.  Both had sounds boards that were bad.  One failed soon after I got it.  The other never worked.  Someone is asleep at the wheel . . . 

Noone was necessarily asleep at the wheel, though. Could be a bad electronic component from a supplier. The electronic components used by the Chinese are not exactly military spec. They're known for being very cheap, with a significant failure rate. The factory workers can put the boards in correctly, but if a single tiny diode or whatever is bad, the board isn't going to work.

Take it back to the dealer and do an exchange.

 

 Oh, wait.......  

 

 

I discovered this fault on my 38415, cab #6531 U28C also.  Every one on display at the October '11 York was the same.  Lionel service took it back but had no correct replacement cabs.  They offered a refund but I wanted the diesel so I said to just return it to me.

 

Fortunately I had on hand two Pennsy herald decals that matched perfectly.  I put them on and now have a fully decorated unit. 

 

I wonder how many owners have even noticed?

Oh, I noticed, and sent off a letter to Jerry Calabrese.  They are ALL this way, lacking a keystone on one side.  I went out and purchased some Microscale decals to correct this error.  In fact, ALL of the keystones on this unit are wrong.  They should all be red and white, not red and gold, and the letters should be sans serif.  I have the decals on hand and plan on redecaling all of the keystones.  Not one of Lionel's better efforts.

 

And by the way, I never got a response to my letter.

I don't think it's like it was in the 70's and 80's where there are true "collectors" for what's being produced today. The charm just isn't there any more if an importer sells an item that was arguably slapped together incorrectly in a Chinese factory. I bought a freight car that didn't have all of the lettering. The LHS I got it from wouldn't accept it for return/exchange, and Lionel said they didn't have more to exchange it. So it's "rare" since you can't find another like this, but at the same time who cares because there's also nobody out there who would want it.

Yes, I too have purchased the 38415 Cab #6531.

 

It sounds like this is a common 'boo-boo' with this engine.

 

Microscale decals, here I come!

 

BTW, shouldn't the end of the long hood have a keystone too?

 

AF

Well in January, I got a brand new, long awaited, shiny American Flyer Erie Lackawanna U33C with yellow stripes missing from the top and bottom of the maroon band on the fireman's side:

 

Took it back to my LHS who sent it back to Lionel.  About 2 months later it returned with all the stripes present and accounted for:

 

Rusty

THEY KILLED THE KITTY!!! AUGH!!!

I purchased this Reading & Northern 4 bay hopper at YORK from a fellow TCA member that told me that the H in NORTHERN was left out because MTH had not secured an agreement with the Historical society of the Reading Railroad at that time to run this product and that was a way around it. it's even mispelled in the catalog, I never noticed until it was pointed out to me.  Thanks, KENNETH.

 

Are made in USA errors of better quality than made in China errors???

 

Rusty

LOL, I was trying to make sense of that comment as well, Rusty.

 

As the old saying goes about a rose being of any other color...

Sorry guys, I didn't mean for this post to become a bashing of quality issues. 

 

I just wondered if anybody else saw the omission on this engine or did I have a fluke.  It sounds like this was a common problem so that answers my question of whether I should re-decal it or not. 

 

I DID NOT mean for this post to go towards QC issues (China v. USA) or not.

 

AF

I have a Santa Fe SD-18 dummy engine that has only "Santa" on one side.  Besides being a factory error, I always thought this was kind of fun.

 

 

Chris,

 

That's pretty neat.  It kind of lends a new meaning to a 'Santa' train.  It must be the diesel back-up for the Polar Express! 

 

AF

Yeah, the Chinese are just stupid, huh? Let's stop and think what the glorious
'merican worker would have done in 1955 with modern complexities, electronics and
demands for prototypical accuracy. And MPC-era? Mmph.

Has everyone actually looked at some of the "quality" of (for example) the decoration
on PW diesel locos? Really? The Southern Railway never had a paint scheme like that
on a PW Lionel F3 A unit; and the paint on AF PA's? Whew!

My original comment had nothing directly to do with Chinese workers, but rather up to about 2000, Lionel made in the USA had a collector following that I dont think exists any more. Remember the days of guys buying at least one of everything, and sticking it all in a closet with plans to cash in once the prices of the collector market shoot up? It's my argument that it was this same time frame that would've made a "factory error" worth something in the collector world. How folks take that and spin it into a USA vs. China thing and how the PW era didn't follow prototype paint schemes is beyond me. To each their own.

 

Sam Jumper

It's not unusual for a thread here to wander far afield of the original intent, Sam.

 

But, what it does indicate is that most folks don't consider factory errors as something of value like they used to.  They consider it as an overall quality issue, magnified by overseas manufacturing. 

 

They pay their good money and want the item to both look and perform well.  It's why I sent my Flyer EL U33C back, the missing stripes really bothered me.  

 

Lionel replaced the shell and I'm far happier with it now as a complete locomotive than a "factory error."

 

Rusty

We are in the middle of a perfect storm and few see it. The collectors come later.

Just like with original Lionel the trains are made, people buy them and use them. Many are discarded, worn out, broken - the few survivors in excellent or better condition attract collectors in the future. Those of us who collect postwar today weren't collecting in 1955 or even 1965. Today's MPC collectors weren't collecting MPC items in 1974, etc. I own several valuable postwar errors. They are in better than average condition today because nobody wanted them when they were produced.

The value of factory errors is in the eye of the beholder.  I personally find no value in them.

 

My trains are just a hobby, not an investment program.

 

Rusty

Thanks to all who responded.

 

You guys convinced me.  Out comes the Microscale Keystones and we'll get this puppy looking good!

If anyone needs the PRR Radio Decals for their second Generation units, I have them for sale. contact me at Mark.Massa86@gmail.com 

 

 

 

Is the PRR U28C decal error limited to only the #6531 unit or do both Lionel PRR road numbers (#6531 and #6534) suffer from the missing and incorrect keystone color scheme?

I'll know soon, I have the 6531, and I just ordered the other one from Charles Ro's sale.   I'm guessing they all have the same issue.

 

Does anyone know the exact matching decal to fix these and have a source?  I suppose a dry transfer decal would be easiest...

 

I've often wondered about this whole phenomenon -- namely, did collectors EVER truly value these factory errors or variations?  Or was it all hype generated by the pricing guide folks who tracked such things to provide additional content to give the guides a little substance?

 

Perhaps... and just maybe it did exist for folks who were enamored with Lionel's post-war era.  But quite honestly, I don't think today's predominant operating culture (as opposed to collector's culture) even gives any of these variations a second glance... hence little or no value in today's shrinking collector's market.  Just part of an era gone by I guess.

 

Just my 2 cents, of course. 

 

David

All the same and no rplacement decal from Lionel.

 

gunny

Both PRR cab number units are missing the two keystone logos on the Engineers side.

Gunny and Craig, thanks for the confirmation.

---

 

With all the talk of the number of quality issues that we see in modern O gauge involving assembly workmanship, electronics, SPELLING, paint and decals, it makes me wonder how each of the train companies word and execute their manufacturing contracts with their offshore manufacturers.  Do the US companies withhold a certain percentage of the contract money via letter of credit or escrow (similar to the old 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 building contractor payment schedule) to better ensure that the model meets approved specs?

 

Obviously each company is different, but there probably are some industry standard manufacturing terms that are common.  Furthermore, if the error is US based (i.e. missed errors (paint color/decals/spelling etc.) in the pre-production samples) then the US train company would probably be ultimately responsible since they signed off or approved the sample as okay to run regular production.

 

Mechanical issues would be a more complicated situation.  Was the mechanical issue due to poor assembly, poor engineering, poor quality of component parts or a result of shipping damage?  Scott Mann, of 3rd Rail/Sunset Models, recently gave us a glimpse into some of the complexities involved in bringing an item to market.  I think it would enlightening to many of us to know more of the process and possibly come away with an even better understanding of the today's industry.

I have a set of Lionel F3's in B&O livery, with one of the A units proclaiming that it is the Baltiomore &     .

     No reason to bash Quality Control, because if you are buying Lionel YOU ARE THE QUALITY CONTROL. Lionel ships from the manufacturers in China directly to the wholesaler...there is no quality control check between China and the dealer--if you buy Lionel just be aware that you are the first person to see the item since it left China. 

     Yes I buy Lionel products; and I open and run the item at my local dealer before it goes home. That way if there is a problem found he deals with it so I don't have to.

On the bright side they are good at repairing their mechanical and electronic  problems.

     I was a little annoyed at the forum meeting with the free shipping for Vets. It's not that I don't believe that the  Veterans have earned the right of special privilege--they have and I think it is a nice gesture. However I think it would be better if Lionel would have their products fixed before any of us receive it. The paint jobs on some of the new diesels looks worse than if I did it. Engines come out if their boxes with details bent or broken off--and getting replacements on these items is take it or leave it.

     I like Legacy and I like some of the really neat paint schemes that Lionel came up with for their own heritage series. However I am frustrated at their product coming in from overseas with zero quality control. I find this unacceptable.

Scott Smith

Well, Scott, the answer is simple: Spend your dollars on American made trains.

Neal, can you help us identify which Microscale decals would be appropriate to use if:

1) You wish to replace all keystones to red and white.

2) You wish to just add matching red & gold keystones to the missing engineer side.

 

Microscale offers various choices (#48-42, #48-45, #48-90, #48-354) but its unclear from the description and photo which set would match the above criteria.

 

Thanks

Personally, I'd like to just add the missing ones, so that's the decals I'd like to find.

That's the route I'd also follow since I also fell victim to the wiles of the Charlie Ro sale.  The engine arrived in less than two days from time of late night order placement (just wish the FedEx guy would learn to ring the door bell instead of quietly placing the box at the front door).

 

Aside from the deficiencies described by those above and on another thread, this is a very nice engine.  I like the engine's soundset.  The idle and run sounds are good.  I was surprised that there is a greater variety of dialogue on this legacy engine than there was on the legacy Lionmaster T-1.  The horn has a good tone, but its volume seems low compared to my other Lionel (Legacy & TMCC), MTH, Atlas, & K-Line engines.

 

Performance wise it is a very smooth runner, especially at low speeds.  Lighting (cab, number boards, front marker lights, front/rear headlights) is all LED.  I especially like the feature w/ Legacy engines where the cab light is on when the engine is stopped and automatically turns off when the engine begins to move.  The rear of the engine's body has indentations near the top on each side where one would think rear marker lights would be located, but there are no lights or fake lens.

 

Two minor issues were noted.  1) The front/side wire railings that connect next to the front cab doors were popped out from the cab.  The foam packing inserts were pressing some on the wires and there also was not much extra wire to grasp into the cab. I was able to reinsert the wire to the cab with some slight pressure to the top area; I did not want to press on the upright stanchions because they looked to be made of plastic and not metal.  2) Upon very gentle unpacking, one side truck frame swung away from the truck.  One of the screws and lock washers was missing and not found amongst the packaging.  A quick call to Lionel customer service provided replacement screw and lock washer in the same day's mail. (Thanks Ken!)