Are you "chasing your tails"?

I am fairly sure there are many who pull long trains.  Concerning engine life being shortened, I don't believe the length of the consist will adversely affect the life of the loco.  Most operators run their respective trains very slowly, and, for this reason, the loco does not run at the full capacity of the motor, or motors, as the case may be.  Also, if a loco indicates it is being overly taxed (slipping, or running hot), then most of us will run multiple engines to compensate for the large load, or consist.

I am sure there are some number of cars that will result in "pre-mature end-of-life" for a toy train locomotive.  But some thoughts - maybe more than you want here:

• Shorter life compared to what?  Running the loco without any cars at all?  Is eight normal?  Ten?  
• Probably every car you add beyond zero makes some slight difference.  I imagine that a loco's lifetime would decrease insignificantly as you added additional cars starting at zero, up to some point, at which each additional car added would both make a noticeable difference in shortened lifetime, and much more difference than the car you added before it, until you got to a point where lifetime was falling rapidly.  
• What that number is would vary depending on loco design: the Lionel Hall class is a heavy loco but has a small motor and I imagine it would begin to struggle with more than 10 cars around a tight loop.  Some big Legacy steamers have monster motors and can pull 50 cars without visible problem or significant heat generation.  Their limit is probably 75 cars or more. 
• Except: curves are a burden for a loco to pull around and that brings up the term "tight loop" in my sentence above.  Pulling 14 cars straight is not nearly the load of pulling 14 around a 72" curve, and that is not nearly as much burden as pulling them around a 36" circle, which is not as much burden as pulling them around a 27" circle. I would think that if the train gets so long that it wraps around both ends of the loop so the loco is always pulling some part of its consist through a full 360 degrees of curves, you might be challenging it a little. 
• I would not worry about it as long as the train is not visibly burdened.  If you worry, you can test it with few or no cars and then note how many additional volts of power are required to make the same speed with, say, 17 cars, etc.  If you need more than about 15% more power, I'd draw the line. 

 

 

 

Concerning engine life being shortened, I don't believe the length of the consist will adversely affect the life of the loco.  Most operators run their respective trains very slowly, and, for this reason, the loco does not run at the full capacity of the motor, or motors, as the case may be.

 

A friend of mine has a large layout with no grades/O72 minimum curves and he routinely runs 25 to 40-car trains that are typically pulled by a pair of powered diesels.  He's never burned out a motor, but I've seen idler gears in the trucks with badly worn teeth and/or wear on their short stubby axle (that fits into the truck block) to the point where the locomotive binds up and won't run.  Some of his trains are very heavy (think 25 flat cars with diecast John Deere equipment loads) but our locomotives are not indestructible.

Mike

 

     All the comments so far are valid. I have seen many large trains pulled by engines at the club and not heard any comments about burn out. Here is an engine that is 75 years old. It has survived my father's and my my childhood and still pulls great. Hopefully we are all in as good shape at that age.

 

Ray Marion

 

I ran a train at a show once where the train didn't chase it's tail, but actually caught it and latched onto it. I put enough cars(and had 3 helper locomotives) to make a complete loop. The last cars coupler was hooked up with the front coupler of the 1rst locomotive.

A lady stood there for awhile watching and finally said

"wait, where's the caboose, there is no end to this train".

I just smiled!!

To answer the qustion.....I do all the time......

I like long trains and many times they are heavy.......look at the army train in this video....pulled effortlessly by a WBB scale-length PennCentral GGI......only time will tell its effect on the engine......

 

Peter

Popi - wish I could have seen that sight!

Every now and then I will run a consist which chases it's tail.  Sometimes I just like to see a lot of rolling stock go by as I watch from track level.

- Greg

Just be careful, when "chasing your tail", that you don't do it on a figure eight.  The results won't be pretty.  

Visualizing this, and tail chasing was the norm on my childhood layout, with mine and

my brother's cars all coupled on, makes me wonder if anybody has ever laid track in

an ever tightening spiral (on same grade, until a grade change at the end to provide

an escape).  I am trying to visualize all those cars in the same train passing each other on nearly parallel loops. (not too prototypical,  and I am not thinking of Tehachapi, which gains a grade,  but....)

Ray, Here's hoping it outlives us all. They were well built back then.

 

Popi, That's a good one.

 

As far as wear on the engines, I agree, depends on the engine and the load.

 

I have pulled 58 cars including some PW and some Die Cast with my Imperial Big Boy. The train WAS chasing its tail with about a 3 foot gap. The loop was roughly 11 feet by 34 feet with a notch containing a reverse curve.

It was also not level. Grade of about 1% up one long side and down the other. Curves were O-72 Realtrax.

 

I would run the train for a half hour or more at a time with no problems. The engine does not get hot, the Tender is warm as usual from the Electronics.

 

I would not do that with a small engine. The Big Boy has 2 good sized motors driving it's 16 drive wheels.

Another Angle on the loading: The more power the motors pull the less load the Regulator and heat sink in the tender actually has to dump as heat.

 

This of course assumes Command Control, not conventional, In Conventional that extra power is held at the transformer.

 

For a conventional engine I'd say as long as it's running withing 25% of it's unloaded speed, it's OK, if it slows a lot, it's overloaded and will overheat.

Heat is what kills all electronics, whether it's from dissipating a spike or working too hard, the very small junctions in the parts overheat and poof, they are gone.

My kids and I like to figure out how much train we can get through a figure eight or a reversing loop without the locomotive tapping the caboose on the way out.  Pretty fun to coordinate everything so it's under a tiny fraction of an inch!

 

 

When the trains start getting too long you have to add another level

 

bluelinec4

 

Great video. I want to ask just how many cars are being pulled but will pass on the question. A better question would be just how long is the track?

 

Enjoyed the video

 

Brent

BReece;

Per the the website the NJHiRailers Red line is 420 feet in length.

 

One of these days I AM going to run my Big Boy there...

That's a great video!

 

--Greg

That's a good one! Your train is only too long if you are already doing as Popi is here and you want to add one more car!   Then you need to expand the layout loop!

 

As far as wear and tear on the engines, everything mechanical or electronic breaks sooner or later. You can count on it! Run and enjoy until they break, then fix them or get a new one. Find some of Tommy Z's videos and see what he does to his trains! His youtube channel is TommyZTrains , he is also a forum member here. He tortures those poor things and enjoys it!

The red line was extended  add another 160 to that.  That doesn't include the overlap of the helix though.   I think there were 94 cars in the video

Am I chasing my tail? Hold on a second and let me look.....no I'm just sitting here writing. Thanks for asking though. Don  

Not with all passenger train operations.

UPDATE: to my surprise the little MTH RS-3 (Proto 2) handles all the 17 box cars without apparent excess of labor.

 

Owing to the advice of many here I feel more confident running it so.

 

Scale rail - you are welcome.

 

 

I've coupled the caboose on the end of my train to the front of the locomotive.  But I guess that doesn't count since now there is no tail, just an endless loop.

 

That's a good stunt to have an "endless train" with "mid-train helpers" every so often. Wouldn't need a caboose.

I agree with Blue,build a bigger layout.I run long trains 25-30 cars.I don't care if my Engines burn out earlier then they would have.I LOVE to go shopping for new Engines.Well,new to ME