At York...

@lionelflyer posted:

...A big concern was a rumor we heard (and it was just an overheard rumor so I don't know the veracity) that the York Fairgrounds was raising the site rental price by $30,000.  That would seem to me to be a big increase.  Maybe Eastern Division will start to consider doing away with the April meet.  I know at the price of rooms and the lack of attendance, I probably won't return for April 2023.

@rplst8 posted:

I have no knowledge of what it costs to rent the fairgrounds, but I do have some knowledge of what it costs to rent other event facilities. I would be very surprised to hear that it even costs that much now, let alone it going up by that much.

By some rough math, if 8000 people sign up at $15 per, that's a gross of $120k, plus whatever is paid for tables, dealer space, and by the food vendors.  Since the EDTCA folks are volunteers (thanks!), the only paid folks are security and maintenance.  In other words, EDTCA should have some money to work with.   

Whenever I hear "I heard that...", "someone said..." or "rumor is...", I take it with a grain of salt.  Things get distorted as they are repeated, and some rumormongers have an agenda or are just trying to stir things up.  At least that's what I heard at the gun store... 

I heard I had fun so I'll be back!

@rplst8 posted:

There was another great tool vendor there in the orange hall called B & B Hobby Supplies. The difference was - they had inventory there to sell.  A great selection! I picked up an engine cradle and some rollers for repairing and upgrading the broken ones I buy off the auction site.  The gentleman there was super friendly and knowledgeable.  He helped me remember the name of a tool that I couldn’t think of to drill and tap small holes in models… A pin vise!

I had the same experience with this husband and wife team - super nice folks. Somehow I left with a $50 bag of modeling tools when all I went into the space for was a $5 dollar Dremel head. Besides being nice, the husband is a heck of a salesman!

@lionelflyer posted:

The price of our hotels was around $650 for two rooms for two days at the Tru by Hilton.  I just tried booking for October and the price is now $950.  Many hotels were quoting the same price or higher.  I did find a Comfort Inn in York that will cost about $550.  I hope it isn't a dump.

An alternative would be to book through one of the vacation/home sites (AirBnB or VRBO). This year we got a suite in someone's home in a nice neighborhood 20 minutes from the fairgrounds. Paid about $180 for 2 nights. The prior 2 York events we attended we were able to rent a guest cottage on a gentleman's farm 30 minutes out of town - fantastic experience. Look at reviews for people who get nothing but 5's and Super Host. I've done this now in places like York and cities like Boston, Washington D.C. and San Francisco. Haven't been disappointed yet.

I'll look in to the VRBO.  I used them to rent a house in Florida for 3 weeks and it worked out okay.

My April 2022 was the most rewarding so far. I arrived Tuesday evening in order to be able to start setting up first thing on Wednesday. Getting 95% complete on Wednesday allowed time to attend and fully enjoy Around The Clock breakfast Thursday morning which I missed back in October. I had downsized what I brought to cut the cost of a rental van. It is true that I could not have fit one more thing in the Durango because somewhere in the back of my mind I knew it was impossible to bring the chair and bench kit business cards. I’ll make sure to have them in October.

A total of five current and former members of the Somerset 4-H Trainmasters stopped by, including two members that started out with me while in the 4th grade and now are “all grown up”, one working at the TCA museum and the other at Northlandz while they attend college.

I am grateful to be included in group dinners at Quaker Steak and Olive Garden. We got to talk trains, family and lines from Mel Brooks movies. I was very happy with the volume of hobbyists who stopped by to chat about my shadowboxes and associated product. All said and done, I was able to see out the back of the Durango on the way home and have a number of semi-custom orders to complete out of the build box inventory. Thank you to the EDTCA for hosting another great train show!

I think I spent more this show and talked to more people than I have in quite a few York shows.  I was on the hunt for structure and building materials and maybe some trains.  I found the trains just overwhelming but I was on a clock to leave by a certain time for a weekend vacation.
Still, I found some good die cast vehicles, a couple postwar operating accessories from the junk pile, new figures, new details from Altoona model works, a laser cut building front, and some new tools.   I think with more time I might have walked away with some New Haven cars I saw in the booth next to the die cast vehicle booth.

Most importantly I enjoyed the various structure modeling booths with their large scale structures, several of the detailed structures for sale, chatting with quite a few booth owners, and the couple modular layouts setup for display.  The MetLife building with full lighting was incredible.  I would have taken photos but thought there were no photos in the Orange hall.

I was hoping to run into Allan Miller to get some tips on an article I submitted but that was the only miss of the show.  Overall the record continues that any York is a good York.

@Todds Architectural Models posted:

My April 2022 was the most rewarding so far. I arrived Tuesday evening in order to be able to start setting up first thing on Wednesday. Getting 95% complete on Wednesday allowed time to attend and fully enjoy Around The Clock breakfast Thursday morning which I missed back in October. I had downsized what I brought to cut the cost of a rental van. It is true that I could not have fit one more thing in the Durango because somewhere in the back of my mind I knew it was impossible to bring the chair and bench kit business cards. I’ll make sure to have them in October.

A total of five current and former members of the Somerset 4-H Trainmasters stopped by, including two members that started out with me while in the 4th grade and now are “all grown up”, one working at the TCA museum and the other at Northlandz while they attend college.

I am grateful to be included in group dinners at Quaker Steak and Olive Garden. We got to talk trains, family and lines from Mel Brooks movies. I was very happy with the volume of hobbyists who stopped by to about my shadowboxes and associated product. All said and done, I was able to see out the back of the Durango on the way home and have a number of semi-custom orders to complete out of the build box inventory. Thank you to the EDTCA for hosting another great train show!

Doug, I enjoyed talking with you!  I'm very happy with the structure I purchased from you and looking forward to working with you on the building I emailed you.

@Mallard4468 posted:

...  Spent some time talking with the guys from Hatton's (big UK distributor) - they were disappointed by the turnout, but I encouraged them to not judge York by this meet - hopefully, they'll come back in October.

I bought from Hatton's directly, using their website, had the engine shipped over to the USA:

Good Morning,

Here is a highlight video of the operating layouts at York this past weekend.  Enjoy!

Michael

@Michael Cimba 040217 - very nice video!  Thanks for making and sharing

@jhz563 posted:

@Michael Cimba 040217 - very nice video!  Thanks for making and sharing

Excellent work!

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

I was hoping to run into Allan Miller to get some tips on an article I submitted but that was the only miss of the show.  Overall the record continues that any York is a good York.

Sorry I missed seeing you, Dave! I spent most of the two days I was there in the Orange Hall, and was pretty much just wandering around, talking with folks, and spending a bit more money than I had planned to. A fun York, as has been the case with all I have attended over the years. Please get in touch with me regarding your article. Send me an email and I'll provide my cell number if you prefer to discuss things in person.

@Michael Cimba 040217 posted:

Good Morning,

Here is a highlight video of the operating layouts at York this past weekend.  Enjoy!

Michael

Well done. Watched it with my morning cup of coffee. Thank you!

@Allan Miller posted:

Sorry I missed seeing you, Dave! I spent most of the two days I was there in the Orange Hall, and was pretty much just wandering around, talking with folks, and spending a bit more money than I had planned to. A fun York, as has been the case with all I have attended over the years. Please get in touch with me regarding your article. Send me an email and I'll provide my cell number if you prefer to discuss things in person.

Thanks Allan, I'll reach out for your cell phone and look forward to discussing further...

@Andrew-Porter posted:

I bought from Hatton's directly, using their website, had the engine shipped over to the USA:

I didn't talk to the Hatton's guys long enough.  I started looking at their website and it seems they make/sell their own product in addition to reselling others. Is that correct? Also, were you able to order the engine above set up for 3 rail or is it a two rail, dc model ?

My wife and I arrived just before 9 Am on Friday. Theresa was nearly moved to tears during the opening ceremony. Unfortunately, due to her recent back issues, we were there for just about 2 hours. We managed to tour the Orange Hall, and the layouts in the purple hall. we did a condensed walk through in the Silver and Blue halls as well. I saw Don Klose briefly, and saw spotted some other old friends from afar, but I didn't want to cause any more discomfort for Theresa, so we kept moving. I had a package for a friend from the Lewisburg area, and two packages for Charlie Stoia. Since Theresa was sitting on a bench, we talked for a bit. I talked to Jack Rash and his son John, with whom I shared booth space several years ago. No purchases this time around except for a set of brushes for a Marx 1666 that I'm working on for a friend. We left just around 11 AM, and headed for the Lancaster area for some quick shopping, and got home around 6:30. I think maybe my next trip may be solo, or with a friend. I missed seeing so many friends this time around.

I’ve read each post and sure wished I had been able to attend, seeing trains, old and new is always fun, but it’s the friends one makes along the Journey that really is the icing on the cake. I’m hoping to be there in October, Lord willing, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Andrew-Porter posted:

I bought from Hatton's directly, using their website, had the engine shipped over to the USA:

NICE! Who is the mfg?

The more I read about York, the more I want to go.   Won't be this year, but it's on the bucket list. 

@Hennypenny posted:

The more I read about York, the more I want to go.   Won't be this year, but it's on the bucket list.

Don't put it off.  It's still a great time, but who knows for how long.

I had a great time at York.  Got to talk to a lot of nice people.  There was a great group of collectors of Standard Gauge that met on Friday were the restaurant use to be on the fairground property.  They have published a book about Standard Gauge that is wonderful.  Saw the Greenbergs in the Orange Hall.  They have done so much for the hobby.  I hope TCA has or will recognize them in some way officially soon or at least at the 70 Anniversary convention.

@jhz563 posted:

So I did make it today and happy to be there, along with Mrs. Z, who is a good sport about this show.  That said,  the attendance was way down compared to pre-pandemic.  The purple hall was shocking to me personally.

I only bought a few things,  but I learned a bunch by seeing things in person.   Seeing T rail and super O train gave me an appreciation for what they really are.  Same thing with seeing "new marx" tinplate cars actually next to other equipment,  previously I couldn't visualize the size.  There were lots of things that nearly and there were deals to be had.  Train World had some nice deals on 70 ton switchers.  The displays by Altoona Model Works and East Coast Enterprises were amazing.   

The folks from Atlas had a modest display but were really nice and had some catalogs.

The biggest thing I noticed was lots more looking than buying,  and lots of empty space.  There was some of the usual suspects you will find at any show,  including a gentleman on an electric chair trying to drive just a little faster than those around him could get out of the way, 1 individual with a nausea inducing amount of cologne, and of course a few people ignoring the arrows in the blue hall.  By large though, the crowd and vendors were polite,  many of the member sellers were looking to deal, and the bonus to smaller crowds was lots more room to breathe and maneuver than what I saw in 2019.

The one thing I was looking for that I didn't see much of was mth o gauge tinplate.   I have been hunting a red 256 from mth for a couple years without success- if you see one please let me know!

Who makes the canopy station in the first photo? That is beautiful!

@Jtrain221 posted:

Who makes the canopy station in the first photo? That is beautiful!

Forum Sponsor East Coast Enterprises.

Pat

Any one know the total attendance figure?

Gunny

@Larry Sr. posted:

@Michael Cimba 040217 - very nice video!  Thanks for making and sharing

I second that. I appreciate the time you spent doing it. Very Nice!!

Thanks

Larry

Thank you everybody!  I enjoyed putting it together.  Glad you are enjoying watching it!

Michael

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

NICE! Who is the mfg?

If it came from Hattons it could be a Hatton's exclusive made by Heljan. I had a nice email exchange with them after the show.   Their offerings are very nice, however they are not for me as they are 2 rail, dc, with fine scale flanges.   Therefore you need really large curves like around 80" diameter minimum.  The gentleman I emailed with is Leo Martin.   He was very nice and took time to answer several rounds of questions.

@Hump Yard Mike posted:

I flew into York from Kansas City this morning (super early flight). I have been to  many Yorks in the past, on and off since 2000, making it typically once a year.  With COVID going on, I had not been since fall of 2019, but it seems like the show is much different now.  Almost no manufactures in attendance today (on Thursday) reminding me of the typical Saturday morning crowd.  Very little modern stuff compared to shows past.  Even older TMCC and PS2 stuff just not really there.   It is surprising that all the product made since roughly 2000 seems to be absent from the shows.

The allure for securing resources to commute and take time off work from the Midwest seems to fading.  I suspect this will be one of my last Yorks

I have not missed a York since 2000. This is without a doubt the most depressing York I have ever attended. I am thinking I may have just attended my last York. The expensive PA turnpike (likely greed driven......layoff all tollworkers and raise fees) didn't help much either. I will admit the small crowds on Thursday made it nice to navigate the aisles. Not raining on anyone's parade but thought it funny how hump yard Mike 's post seems spot on. If you still enjoy York....by all means....keep going.

I don’t know how three days of nothing but trains could be so depressing.

Personally, I found more things I wanted this time around than at previous ones.

@rplst8 posted:

I don’t know how three days of nothing but trains could be so depressing.

Personally, I found more things I wanted this time around than at previous ones.

Amen.  I got to talk with people, see trains I'll see nowhere else, and bought some neat stuff.

I'm probably repeating myself, possibly from another York thread, but as my golf buddy says after a bad round "I wonder what the poor people are doing today". 

@jhz563 posted:

I didn't talk to the Hatton's guys long enough.  I started looking at their website and it seems they make/sell their own product in addition to reselling others. Is that correct? Also, were you able to order the engine above set up for 3 rail or is it a two rail, dc model ?

The engine in question was made by Hattons. It's 3-rail. Also, warning, the body of both engine and tender are plastic, with little bits that can break off very easily. See my post here:

https://ogrforum.com/...s-suggestions?page=2

As I posted there: Coal load separate, had to be inserted into tender—and didn't fit! Finally I had to saw off a piece and file down sharp edges to insert it. Tender attached to engine by very thin piece of metal, held together with Phillips head screw—so you couldn't see details inside cab until you separated them. A few months after I received it, more bits to be added to engine mailed loose to me from the UK in flimsy 9x12 envelope, so arrived broken into several pieces! Just put all the bits and pieces into the box, never to be dealt with.

Here are more photos: "Seat" on left has broken off, arrived from overseas that way.

You see those golden pipes on the front? They're thin plastic! Will break off unless you handle it with great care. I have it on a shelf, never otherwise touch it.

Looks gorgeous, but only if you never, ever run it!!!

I just wanted to add to all the comments here that as I don't drive (never learned, never owned a car), and they've discontinued the bus from the NY Metro area, I will never ever be able to go to York. So "going" there via accounts here, vicariously. Thanks, everyone, for the comments and videos!

I don't have the deep depth of others,since October was my first York. I was surprised that the April one seemed smaller than October, I thought with Covid receding and the like it would have been a bit larger. On the other hand, things are still in flux, the cost of gas is still high and people are still trying to figure out what the new normal is.

Did I think York sucked? Nope,not at all. The thing for me is it is still a wonderful experience and gives me a chance to enjoy trains and talk to other people, too. The experience of York for me is not just looking for that killer item (since I am really not like that, I buy things I like and I also tend not to spend all that much on the hobby..though this one was a new record). My purchases were modest, found a standard gauge caboose to keep the standard gauge engine I bought in October company, I found one the NYC ugly duckling (to me) S2 electrics, a TMCC model, at a decent price, found a couple of Chessie box cars (my wife loves the cat logo, thinks whoever changed it to CSX should be forced to eat Italian food only at the Olive Garden), and found some ross sectional track at a good price.

I can understand people being disappointed, being smaller it was prob less likely to find that rare gem they were looking for. I felt the prices I saw in the Orange hall were high, but I also saw the same stuff in one of the other halls at a really good price (my pet peeve with train shows? A)not having a price on the item, that is cheesy and wastes time and b)having a price you know is high hoping to find a sucker...price it a bit above what you consider fair value, you will get a lot more takers, guaranteed).  I was sorry Lionel wasn't there and other makers, too. I hope by October the world is in better shape and people feel more comfortable with coming..

Yet...I still had a good time, especially with people. I got to see all kinds of trains, got to see old toy trains, foreign trains, saw a beautiful live steam engine in number 1 gauge (somehow, I don't think my wife would appreciate me spending 7800 bucks on it, at least not while we still have a mortgage to finish off!), and was just immersed, call it "train bathing" . I have been having a couple of crappy months, things at work, being under the weather with allergies, and just in general not great..and went there and actually felt much better. Maybe because these trains are not serious business, they are something we do for fun (well, I hope so, some of the ardent collector types I saw seemed to be a bit too much intense to be having fun, but who knows?). Yes, it was lighter attendence, which I am sure the dealers and people selling weren't happy about, can't blame them, but it made it a lot more relaxing, too, easier to get around or to be able to get out of the way of the (few) mad scooter drivers. Hopefully it will help drive off the funk and get me going forward with my layout that has been neglected by other things, it was just nice to do something out of the ordinary and have fun (as I did in October).

If I can make October I will go. My cost is a tank of gas, and a hotel room and food, and given that I am fortunate to have a well paying job, I don't have other hobbies or interests to compete with this really, the benefit I get from it is def a lot more than I put into it...btw not knocking others, I might have felt different if I had to fly to it, get a rental car, or drive long distance, I might feel differently.

Do I recommend it? Yep, I do, it is very unique. I can hope that in the future that it will return a bit to what people are saying, would love to see more layouts there for example, but the experience of being immersed in trains with other people (well, most of them, there are always less than nice people), being able to see everything, and just have a good time, makes it unique, it is different than other trains shows I go to. Among other things, people from all over..and on the drive home, got to see someone playing their field with a team of 6 oxen, that alone was worth something

Last October was my first York also.  I have nothing to compare it to.  For me it was the biggest and best train show I've ever seen by far.  If you've been to York dozens of times and you think it sucks now, why come on here and tell younger people that it sucks?  It's like guys saying the new catalog sucks.  It doesn't suck.  There's nothing in there you want.  Just put it down and walk away!

Anyway, York was not a social event for me.  I'm a newby and I live in the midwest so there isn't anyone at York who I know.  Being new  and in a heavy acquisition phase, I listened to people here and I took lots of cash.  I figured on doing some serious spending.  Surprisingly, I ended up buying one MTH passenger set.  That's it!  Oh well.  I still had a blast though.

The one thing I'd tell folks who have never been to York is: if you're relatively young or just in decent shape, and into modern trains, you can easily cover all the halls in half a day.  For me there was a lot of prewar/postwar to gloss over.  I went through the entire show twice on Thursday afternoon.  However, if you're into the old stuff, are an east coast guy and/or a hobby veteran and you're stopping to talk to your buddies all day, then I'm sure it takes a long time.  I already have my hotel reserved for this October.

@MikeH posted:

Last October was my first York also.  I have nothing to compare it to.  For me it was the biggest and best train show I've ever seen by far.  If you've been to York dozens of times and you think it sucks now, why come on here and tell younger people that it sucks?  It's like guys saying the new catalog sucks.  It doesn't suck.  There's nothing in there you want.  Just put it down and walk away!

Anyway, York was not a social event for me.  I'm a newby and I live in the midwest so there isn't anyone at York who I know.  Being new  and in a heavy acquisition phase, I listened to people here and I took lots of cash.  I figured on doing some serious spending.  Surprisingly, I ended up buying one MTH passenger set.  That's it!  Oh well.  I still had a blast though.

The one thing I'd tell folks who have never been to York is: if you're relatively young or just in decent shape, and into modern trains, you can easily cover all the halls in half a day.  For me there was a lot of prewar/postwar to gloss over.  I went through the entire show twice on Thursday afternoon.  However, if you're into the old stuff, are an east coast guy and/or a hobby veteran and you're stopping to talk to your buddies all day, then I'm sure it takes a long time.  I already have my hotel reserved for this October.

Your profile says that one of your interests is Modern Era Standard Gauge.  Did you attend the SGMA meeting on Friday morning?  If not, I highly suggest making it a priority for October - you'll see some amazing stuff, and it's a chance to meet a lot of great people.  If you didn't get the Arno Baars book, please consider ordering it - it's a treasure trove of information.

@bigkid posted:

I don't have the deep depth of others,since October was my first York. I was surprised that the April one seemed smaller than October, I thought with Covid receding and the like it would have been a bit larger. On the other hand, things are still in flux, the cost of gas is still high and people are still trying to figure out what the new normal is.

Did I think York sucked? Nope,not at all. The thing for me is it is still a wonderful experience and gives me a chance to enjoy trains and talk to other people, too. The experience of York for me is not just looking for that killer item (since I am really not like that, I buy things I like and I also tend not to spend all that much on the hobby..though this one was a new record). My purchases were modest, found a standard gauge caboose to keep the standard gauge engine I bought in October company, I found one the NYC ugly duckling (to me) S2 electrics, a TMCC model, at a decent price, found a couple of Chessie box cars (my wife loves the cat logo, thinks whoever changed it to CSX should be forced to eat Italian food only at the Olive Garden), and found some ross sectional track at a good price.

I can understand people being disappointed, being smaller it was prob less likely to find that rare gem they were looking for. I felt the prices I saw in the Orange hall were high, but I also saw the same stuff in one of the other halls at a really good price (my pet peeve with train shows? A)not having a price on the item, that is cheesy and wastes time and b)having a price you know is high hoping to find a sucker...price it a bit above what you consider fair value, you will get a lot more takers, guaranteed).  I was sorry Lionel wasn't there and other makers, too. I hope by October the world is in better shape and people feel more comfortable with coming..

Yet...I still had a good time, especially with people. I got to see all kinds of trains, got to see old toy trains, foreign trains, saw a beautiful live steam engine in number 1 gauge (somehow, I don't think my wife would appreciate me spending 7800 bucks on it, at least not while we still have a mortgage to finish off!), and was just immersed, call it "train bathing" . I have been having a couple of crappy months, things at work, being under the weather with allergies, and just in general not great..and went there and actually felt much better. Maybe because these trains are not serious business, they are something we do for fun (well, I hope so, some of the ardent collector types I saw seemed to be a bit too much intense to be having fun, but who knows?). Yes, it was lighter attendence, which I am sure the dealers and people selling weren't happy about, can't blame them, but it made it a lot more relaxing, too, easier to get around or to be able to get out of the way of the (few) mad scooter drivers. Hopefully it will help drive off the funk and get me going forward with my layout that has been neglected by other things, it was just nice to do something out of the ordinary and have fun (as I did in October).

If I can make October I will go. My cost is a tank of gas, and a hotel room and food, and given that I am fortunate to have a well paying job, I don't have other hobbies or interests to compete with this really, the benefit I get from it is def a lot more than I put into it...btw not knocking others, I might have felt different if I had to fly to it, get a rental car, or drive long distance, I might feel differently.

Do I recommend it? Yep, I do, it is very unique. I can hope that in the future that it will return a bit to what people are saying, would love to see more layouts there for example, but the experience of being immersed in trains with other people (well, most of them, there are always less than nice people), being able to see everything, and just have a good time, makes it unique, it is different than other trains shows I go to. Among other things, people from all over..and on the drive home, got to see someone playing their field with a team of 6 oxen, that alone was worth something

Great review and perspective. 

A couple of notes...  April always has lower attendance than October, as fall is the start of "train season" for a lot of folks.  Unpriced items are a violation of TCA rules (I hate it too); if it seems egregious to you, contact the hall captain.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Your profile says that one of your interests is Modern Era Standard Gauge.  Did you attend the SGMA meeting on Friday morning?  If not, I highly suggest making it a priority for October - you'll see some amazing stuff, and it's a chance to meet a lot of great people.  If you didn't get the Arno Baars book, please consider ordering it - it's a treasure trove of information.

Ah yes.  That is one of my interests but I did not attend.  I will do so this fall.  I did enjoy their layout in the Orange Hall last year.  I've been systematically selling off my MESG collection.  I delivered quite a bit to forum members while at York.

@irish rifle posted:

Don:

Great seeing you at the breakfast! Jack Pearce is the best in the business when it comes to lighting and detailing vehicles and passenger cars. He has been doing so for me for many years. I have well over 100 vehicles that he has lit and detailed for me on my layout as well as three passenger car sets he has lit and detailed for me. I don't know if you saw the MTH Strasburg Green Woodside Coach set he had there. He upgraded the lighting, added additional passengers, and detailed that exact same set for me, and it contained even more detailing than the one he had at York.

Pat

His candle lighted passenger cars were outstanding - but soooooo expensive. I can see why with the work that must have been involved.

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

His candle lighted passenger cars were outstanding - but soooooo expensive. I can see why with the work that must have been involved.

Jack had those cars at a local show the week before. Price shown was $250/car. Lionel wants $225 with none of that detail. His cars are steal compared to Lionel’s.

Pete