Atlas 7.5 Switches

Miles, hit me with an e-mail or a telephone number so I can discuss with you. I have installed quite  few of these and also the #5 turnouts.

Scrappy

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Miles, hit me with an e-mail or a telephone number so I can discuss with you. I have installed quite  few of these and also the #5 turnouts.

Scrappy

Scrapiron..wasn't there something about the sun icon(uv protected)on the box and these were the better switches?

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Miles, hit me with an e-mail or a telephone number so I can discuss with you. I have installed quite  few of these and also the #5 turnouts.

Scrappy

mileswrich@gmail.com   - I will email you my cell.  We are going to the movies right now to see Molly's Game.  Thanks so much for your reply.   It is much appreciated.

Scrapiron, I never received the email.  Did it bounce back or did you hit a wrong key.  It never hit my span folder either.  mileswrich@gmail.com

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Miles, hit me with an e-mail or a telephone number so I can discuss with you. I have installed quite  few of these and also the #5 turnouts.

Scrappy

Scrapiron, my email is mileswrich@gmail.com.  Thanks

Sometimes the closure rails touch the frogs, when this happens they are grounded instead of dead and sparks fly when the 2rd rail roller comes in contact with it. try to slide a piece of paper between the frog and the closure rail if it does not fit in-between you will have to slide the closure rail back toward the point a little. 

Sorry I missed this discussion earlier; I believe Alan Wood nailed the solution in the post above. I've had this issue on one 7.5 degree turnout before. I use a single edge razor blade or a #11 xacto blade for a rail-gap  to ensure the frog and adjacent rails are non-conductive to each other.

Yep,  Had the same problem with these and there curved switches.  I fixed the issue by slightly grinding away the spots where the locomotive wheels rubbed .  Not sure if the Atlas's non-derailing board could eliminate the problem.

By the time the non-derailing boards and momentary switch controls came out I had switched over to all Ross switches.  It turns out there even cheaper than Atlas, especially when you consider Atlas wants to sell you a non-derailing board, momentary switch controller and wants you to wire the switch on all three sides to cover the fact that the switches loose connectivity as time goes on.  Just my experience.      

The track itself is fine though and I use it throughout my layout.

willygee posted:

...

Scrapiron..wasn't there something about the sun icon(uv protected)on the box and these were the better switches?

As I recall, the boxes with the sun label coincided with better/heavier jumper wires running within the plastic tie strips of the turnout.  The earliest turnouts had VERY thin-gauge wires that were prone to breaking or not handling heavy O-Gauge currents.

David

Alan Wood posted:

Sometimes the closure rails touch the frogs, when this happens they are grounded instead of dead and sparks fly when the 2rd rail roller comes in contact with it. try to slide a piece of paper between the frog and the closure rail if it does not fit in-between you will have to slide the closure rail back toward the point a little. 

Alan, when you say the closure rail, are you speaking of the rail in the pictures i posted that almost abuts the frog, but are slightly separated?

Miles: In your first picture, the two rails that abut the frog casting; they cannot be touching the frog casting or you will experience the shorting condition you describe. Looking at that picture, there appears to be some kind of metal "nub" that may be completing a circuit to the frog casting.

If you have a single edge razor blade, push it down into that gap and make sure the rail with all the electrical shorting marks is in fact isolated from the frog casting. If you have a digital or analog voltmeter, check to be sure that the two rails closing in on the frog casting do not show any voltage.

Thank you very much.  I will do that when I work on the layout this afternoon.  

I must be dense.  The shorting at both points A and B in this picture.  That rail is supposed to be negative, but somehow it is getting power from the middle Positive rail.  So when a car travels onto it, the wheels are contacting the negative pole on the outside rail and this rail which shorts it out.  If the frog was touching the rail A-B, then there would be a short as soon as power was applied to the track.  It does not matter which direction the train approaches from.  If it comes from the switch point direction, the sparks fly as soon as the wheel reaches Point B. If it comes from the direction of the frog, the sparks fly as soon as the rail hits point A.  How is the center rail getting power to the outside rail AB?  And how can I fix this?   

Just added a Ross #4 yard crossover to my layout even though #4 is no longer listed yet Steve built it and delivered it in short order. Highly recommend his products. cordially overbore--81 year old boy---. overbore

I had a similar problem with the 7.5 switches and it was because the wheels of some cars were touching the very end of the center rail and causing the short. In your picture above, it was happening between B and C where the end of the center rail (for the curved direction) comes very close to one of the outside rails for the straight direction. I solved the problem by painting a little liquid electrical tape on the side and tip of the center rail. The only problem with this solution is that it increases the gap in the center rail and can cause problems if you have locomotives with pickup rollers that are close together.

I do not think that is the problem and let me explain why.  I took a utility knife and touched the AB rail to the frog, and it cause the short, and it shouldn't.  The wheels are not touching the center rail.  The problem is with the AB rail in my photo.  In other words if I create a connection between the negative rails circled as marked as A the short occurs.   

Call Atlas and see if they'll replace the switch.  In my experience they were not eager to do much, but things may have changed.

Once again I had a negative experience with there switches  and Atlas's approach to customer satisfaction regarding them.  The situation you describe is only one of the many issues you will come across.  As I mentioned there connectively issues, switch machine issues, dead spots and so on. 

I was very disappointed as the track system is nice looking, but as I said, aside from the switches , and crossovers, the track sections are very nice and work well with Ross.

The short occurs as soon as the leading wheel of the car gets to Point A or Point B.  And as I said, if you make a connection between the two rails at point A, the short occurs, long before the roller gets near the end of the center rail.

Miles, I never saw your e-mail but I know the repair that cures the problem permanently. I had the same issue. There are several areas near the frog where the flange and inner wheel side of the wheel are "encouraged" to contact, however briefly, both the outer and middle rail. A 1" x 1/32" shim of thin plastic superglued to the inside of the middle rail contact cures the problem permanently. It happens primarily with Lionel cars, particularly the PS-4 flat.

The more serious problem, for which I have no fix, are the locomotives whose roller span is insufficient to maintain middle rail contact on 7.5 turnouts. Unfortunately, quite a few, including the new Lionel Hybrid with three pickup rollers on the loco, are victims. The work around is to roll the loco through fast enough to get past the momentary shut off.

Scrappy

The newer style 7.5 switches have resolved the pick-up roller issue by the addition of the heavy center rail piece. If you still have an engine that stops on the new style it's because some of them were made where that heavy piece is lower then the rails. Remove it and add small washers under it to raise it up so that it's slightly higher then the rails. My MTH switchers can crawl through these switches now without stopping. I used frog snot to stop the inside of the wheels from sparking and it's been holding up good. Once it wears through, using Scrapiron's idea will more permanent.

Let's try this again.  If I roll a passenger car from left to right coming to point A going toward point B, as soon as the wheel hits point A and comes in contact with the rail that guides the car straight through the switch, a short occurrs.  This means that the rail that goes from point A to point B is somehow getting a positive charge.  There no center rail anywhere near point A  so it is impossible that the inside of the wheel, the back of the flange is coming in contact with the center rail.  Additionally, if I take a screwdriver or a utility knife and touch Point A so that I am bridging from the frog to the rail which should have no electrical connection at all, sparks fly.  The negative rail on the outside has power so when the wheel contacts that rail and the rail between the frog and the points, the sparks fly.  I am not an electrical engineer, and I do have a voltage and amperage meter which I can use, but when I touch the frog and the rail I will refer to here as AB, i.e. it goes from point A to Point B, the sparks fly, and the lights dim, it shorts out.  Nothing is contacting the center rail.  Perhaps I should make a video tomorrow to show this.  But the problem is not wheels touching the positive center rail.  To prove it, I just went an took a wire, touched one end to the outside  of the outside rail and touched the other end of the wire to the top of the rail I refer to as AB.  The short occurs.  The thin brass wire in the switch that connects the center rail that is often inside the plastic of the switch, is coming in contact with the AB rail underneath.   I also have a line drawn to the rail from the letter C.   I do not believe that rail can be removed easily.  Does anyone have any ideas about how to remove that rail, the one between the frog and the movable points, so I can insulate it, because it is obviously not insulated from the wire that connects the center rails of the switch?

No, the rail is glued down.  Once you slide the rail out it is extremely difficult to reinstall.

If the switch was  incorrectly wired at the factory or if for some reason there is a piece of factory install wiring making contact where is shouldn't then call Atlas and have them repair or replace it.

Orignally posted by Miles W. Rich: 

Let's try this again.  If I roll a passenger car from left to right coming to point A going toward point B, as soon as
 the wheel hits point A and comes in contact with the rail that guides the car straight through the switch, a short
occurs.  This means that the rail that goes from point A to point B is somehow getting a positive charge. 
There no center rail anywhere near point A  so it is impossible that the inside of the wheel, the back of the flange is
 coming in contact with the center rail.  Additionally, if I take a screwdriver or a utility knife and touch Point A so
 that I am bridging from the frog to the rail which should have no electrical connection at all, sparks fly.  The
negative rail on the outside has power so when the wheel contacts that rail and the rail between the frog and the points,
 the sparks fly.  I am not an electrical engineer, and I do have a voltage and amperage meter which I can use,
but when I touch the frog and the rail I will refer to here as AB, i.e. it goes from point A to Point B, the sparks fly,
 and the lights dim, it shorts out.  Nothing is contacting the center rail.  Perhaps I should make a video tomorrow to
 show this.  But the problem is not wheels touching the positive center rail.  To prove it, I just went an took a wire,
 touched one end to the outside  of the outside rail and touched the other end of the wire to the top of the rail I
refer to as AB.  The short occurs.  The thin brass wire in the switch that connects the center rail that is often inside
the plastic of the switch, is coming in contact with the AB rail underneath.   I also have a line drawn to the rail from
 the letter C.   I do not believe that rail can be removed easily.  Does anyone have any ideas about how to remove that
 rail, the one between the frog and the movable points, so I can insulate it, because it is obviously not insulated
 from the wire that connects the center rails of the switch?

Yes. With an Xacto knife,

• Cut off the Plastic spikes
• make sure the cut is flush with the tie plates.
• Pry up the rail [ it maybe glued down] and try not to break the ties!
• install your insulation[ either a modified plastic atlas o insulator joiners or some .010 plastic strip layed underneath the rail]
• follow the picture tutorial below on how to fix Atlas O Track....

NOte to cut the HO spikes 2/3 way down so the spike doesn't exceed the plastic tie height!

Note when spiking down rail, make sure you do both sides of rail and NOT all one side then attempt spiking at the other. You can easily loose your rail gauge by spiking the later way!

Once the rail is spiked/Crazy Glued, that rail Ain't Going NOWHERE!

So have you taken this switch out and flipped it over?  The insulation for the jumper could have burnt off and be touching the rail.

Gene Anstine 

I think I understand your problem now. Why don't you just remove the jumper wire that is causing the short. You can then just add another power feed to the other side of the switch to restore power to the center rail that was connected to the jumper wire.

Thank all of you for your help.  I removed the rail and sure enough, the thin copper jumper wire from one center rail to the other sent through the top of the tie, and was slightly exposed.  I cut off the plastic spikes with a utility knife, but left enough to hold the rail, popped the rail out, covered the offending wire with tape and snapped the rail back into place.  I will spike it down after I get some spikes.  Here is a picture of the tie with the exposed wire.  

Now to figure out what caused this to happen and is there a way to prevent it.

Miles,

Give me a call at Atlas and I will help you. There are also a kit of parts to install on each switch. The later runs had the extra pieces installed from the factory. The first run does not have the extra pieces. The kit of parts is still available and I can help you with the arcs n sparks. You can reach me at 908-687-0880 ext 7142

Steve Horvath posted:

Miles,

Give me a call at Atlas and I will help you. There are also a kit of parts to install on each switch. The later runs had the extra pieces installed from the factory. The first run does not have the extra pieces. The kit of parts is still available and I can help you with the arcs n sparks. You can reach me at 908-687-0880 ext 7142

Miles,

Would you mind if I gave you a call? I just installed four of the 7.5 switches on my layout this weekend and I'm having the same issue on at least 4 of the 6 switches.

Thank you in advance.

J Class posted:

Steve Horvath posted:

Miles,

Give me a call at Atlas and I will help you. There are also a kit of parts to install on each switch. The later runs had the extra pieces installed from the factory. The first run does not have the extra pieces. The kit of parts is still available and I can help you with the arcs n sparks. You can reach me at 908-687-0880 ext 7142

Miles,

Would you mind if I gave you a call? I just installed four of the 7.5 switches on my layout this weekend and I'm having the same issue on at least 4 of the 6 switches.

Thank you in advance.

Sorry - that was intended for Steve, not Miles.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Orignally posted by Miles W. Rich: 

Let's try this again.  If I roll a passenger car from left to right coming to point A going toward point B, as soon as
 the wheel hits point A and comes in contact with the rail that guides the car straight through the switch, a short
occurs.  This means that the rail that goes from point A to point B is somehow getting a positive charge.
There no center rail anywhere near point A  so it is impossible that the inside of the wheel, the back of the flange is
 coming in contact with the center rail.  Additionally, if I take a screwdriver or a utility knife and touch Point A so
 that I am bridging from the frog to the rail which should have no electrical connection at all, sparks fly.  The
negative rail on the outside has power so when the wheel contacts that rail and the rail between the frog and the points,
 the sparks fly.  I am not an electrical engineer, and I do have a voltage and amperage meter which I can use,
but when I touch the frog and the rail I will refer to here as AB, i.e. it goes from point A to Point B, the sparks fly,
 and the lights dim, it shorts out.  Nothing is contacting the center rail.  Perhaps I should make a video tomorrow to
 show this.  But the problem is not wheels touching the positive center rail.  To prove it, I just went an took a wire,
 touched one end to the outside  of the outside rail and touched the other end of the wire to the top of the rail I
refer to as AB.  The short occurs.  The thin brass wire in the switch that connects the center rail that is often inside
the plastic of the switch, is coming in contact with the AB rail underneath.   I also have a line drawn to the rail from
 the letter C.   I do not believe that rail can be removed easily.  Does anyone have any ideas about how to remove that
 rail, the one between the frog and the movable points, so I can insulate it, because it is obviously not insulated
 from the wire that connects the center rails of the switch?

Yes. With an Xacto knife,

• Cut off the Plastic spikes
• make sure the cut is flush with the tie plates.
• Pry up the rail [ it maybe glued down] and try not to break the ties!
• install your insulation[ either a modified plastic atlas o insulator joiners or some .010 plastic strip layed underneath the rail]
• follow the picture tutorial below on how to fix Atlas O Track....

NOte to cut the HO spikes 2/3 way down so the spike doesn't exceed the plastic tie height!

Note when spiking down rail, make sure you do both sides of rail and NOT all one side then attempt spiking at the other. You can easily loose your rail gauge by spiking the later way!

Once the rail is spiked/Crazy Glued, that rail Ain't Going NOWHERE!

Are all HO rail spikes the same size? If not, which size is best to use for Atlas O fixes? 

Thanks,

Eric 

I have the same question as the question above. I’m am about to buy ho scale spikes but do not know which brand to buy from. My friend stepped on my atlas track which happens to be on the floor and all the plastic ties broke and the rails fell off. Thanks for the help!

vthokies2007-2011 posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Orignally posted by Miles W. Rich: 

Let's try this again.  If I roll a passenger car from left to right coming to point A going toward point B, as soon as
 the wheel hits point A and comes in contact with the rail that guides the car straight through the switch, a short
occurs.  This means that the rail that goes from point A to point B is somehow getting a positive charge.
There no center rail anywhere near point A  so it is impossible that the inside of the wheel, the back of the flange is
 coming in contact with the center rail.  Additionally, if I take a screwdriver or a utility knife and touch Point A so
 that I am bridging from the frog to the rail which should have no electrical connection at all, sparks fly.  The
negative rail on the outside has power so when the wheel contacts that rail and the rail between the frog and the points,
 the sparks fly.  I am not an electrical engineer, and I do have a voltage and amperage meter which I can use,
but when I touch the frog and the rail I will refer to here as AB, i.e. it goes from point A to Point B, the sparks fly,
 and the lights dim, it shorts out.  Nothing is contacting the center rail.  Perhaps I should make a video tomorrow to
 show this.  But the problem is not wheels touching the positive center rail.  To prove it, I just went an took a wire,
 touched one end to the outside  of the outside rail and touched the other end of the wire to the top of the rail I
refer to as AB.  The short occurs.  The thin brass wire in the switch that connects the center rail that is often inside
the plastic of the switch, is coming in contact with the AB rail underneath.   I also have a line drawn to the rail from
 the letter C.   I do not believe that rail can be removed easily.  Does anyone have any ideas about how to remove that
 rail, the one between the frog and the movable points, so I can insulate it, because it is obviously not insulated
 from the wire that connects the center rails of the switch?

Yes. With an Xacto knife,

• Cut off the Plastic spikes
• make sure the cut is flush with the tie plates.
• Pry up the rail [ it maybe glued down] and try not to break the ties!
• install your insulation[ either a modified plastic atlas o insulator joiners or some .010 plastic strip layed underneath the rail]
• follow the picture tutorial below on how to fix Atlas O Track....

NOte to cut the HO spikes 2/3 way down so the spike doesn't exceed the plastic tie height!

Note when spiking down rail, make sure you do both sides of rail and NOT all one side then attempt spiking at the other. You can easily loose your rail gauge by spiking the later way!

Once the rail is spiked/Crazy Glued, that rail Ain't Going NOWHERE!

Are all HO rail spikes the same size? If not, which size is best to use for Atlas O fixes? 

Thanks,

Eric 

No not all ho rail spikes are the same size as well as to even be called spikes. The ones I used above are lifelike ho spikes. They look like spikes. Previous I purchased a package of Accurail spikes. Unfortunately the name was a bit misleading as their "spikes" looked more like cut T-50 Staples than a RR spike. Look at the spikes before you buy. Also note the ho spikes will be longer than what you actually need hence the reason for the shears in the picture above and below.