That is just awesome. The 2-rail model just looks so much better.
It sounds and runs fantastic to me.
3rd Rail will have a tough act to follow there.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Boo Man posted:Just a note, it seems like most people take photos angled down at their layouts and trains. I took the F7 photos at ground level. If I posted a different angle, I'm wondering if this discussion would be this frenetic.
......Everybody is gonna make whatever decision best fits their needs.
That's it, I've had it with all of these inaccuracies. I'm quitting the hobby! 
And no, I'm not going to sell my trains, I'm going to take a hammer to every one of them!
I got my milwaukee today. When sitting on my atlas track, it looks just fine, I am very pleased in fact. Nice job atlas from this corner!
Grrrrrrr ... well I'm back in the hobby. I just couldn't do it. I went to the Train Room with vengeance in my heart. Then I looked at my beautiful scale gleaming passenger sets, and those gorgeous, colorful diesels and rugged steam locomotives. They looked back at me....... and I fell in love all over again!
I ran some sets and all was right with the world again. 
I'm looking forward to my Atlas Western Pacific ABB F3's!
The fuel tank is a bit undersized to accommodate the undersized cover from the PD hobbies shell. Beyond that the unit sits high for the trucks to accommodate the vertical drive and short radius curves. If I remember correctly (from the F3s) if you lower the trucks the motor flywheels will slightly impact the roof of the shell under certain conditions.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:Here are some picks of the PRR and Amtrak units displayed at the "Big E"
If that's the production version of the Amtrak unit then I'm glad I passed, because thats a whole bucket of fail.
EscapeRocks posted:
That looks really close!
wb47 posted:Here is my view of my Milwaukee F7. It is where i view my railroad, from my swivel chair.
This looks great, enjoy!!
Where's the "fail" boilermaker 1?
BobbyD posted:EscapeRocks posted:
That looks really close!
Stop blocking the progress of hysteria with mere facts.
Here's a pic for comparison
Engineer-Joe posted:
Here's a pic for comparison
Both these tanks look really close to the Atlas model size. It seems unlikely Atlas shrunk the tank skirt, has anyone measured that part?
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MY AMTRAKS ARE HERE MY AMTRAKS ARE HERE
Paul - doing the happy dance
Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
CentralFan1976 posted:Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
Yes, except for the lack of the stainless steel side panels, unless they are not showing up well in that photo.
Three paages of conjecture and moaning and groaning and yet not one person has actually measured the models dimensions and compaired them to prototype drawings? No? Then I dont see anyone with a leg to stand on. Great looking models. Great blank canvas for many different prototypes. H$## I am just happy to see Atlas models arriving on our shores. I don't even need any F units and I am thinking about picking a AA set of these up in 2 rail. Now here is the challenge: give us numbers on the demensions for these units. Let's put it in black and white. And see how atlas did.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:Where's the "fail" boilermaker 1?
The pilot is wrong, it should be a square cornered plow pilot.
Wrong horn
No lift rings
No ladder rungs up the nose
No antennas on the roof (or beacon light in later years)
No winter hatches.
I'll look past the missing MU door because no one has managed to do that.
What they did is paint a 1950 as delivered F7 in a 1972 paint job, ignoring 20 years of NP modifications along the way. Id expect that from Railking, but i expect better from Atlas Master line. Like I said, its a bucket of fail.
Here the real deal.
All that "stuff", ignored.
Stuff ignored to keep costs down. Imagine if every variation of individual F units were produced by Atlas how much they would cost in tooling alone. Then pass on that price to us. And all you would have is people moaning about the prices. If you want individual variations, then you will have to build it yourself. O scale is after all a builder Scale. My opinion though, others results May Vary
Boilermaker1 posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:Where's the "fail" boilermaker 1?
The pilot is wrong, it should be a square cornered plow pilot.
Wrong horn
No lift rings
No ladder rungs up the nose
No antennas on the roof (or beacon light in later years)
No winter hatches.
I'll look past the missing MU door because no one has managed to do that.
What they did is paint a 1950 as delivered F7 in a 1972 paint job, ignoring 20 years of NP modifications along the way. Id expect that from Railking, but i expect better from Atlas Master line. Like I said, its a bucket of fail.
Here the real deal.
All that "stuff", ignored.
Are you saying that all F7's that made their way to Amtrak ownership had plow pilots, or just #101? Could the plow pilots have been added at some later date after acquisition? (I ask because I don't know.)
TM Terry posted:Boilermaker1 posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:Where's the "fail" boilermaker 1?
The pilot is wrong, it should be a square cornered plow pilot.
Wrong horn
No lift rings
No ladder rungs up the nose
No antennas on the roof (or beacon light in later years)
No winter hatches.
I'll look past the missing MU door because no one has managed to do that.
What they did is paint a 1950 as delivered F7 in a 1972 paint job, ignoring 20 years of NP modifications along the way. Id expect that from Railking, but i expect better from Atlas Master line. Like I said, its a bucket of fail.
Here the real deal.
All that "stuff", ignored.
Are you saying that all F7's that made their way to Amtrak ownership had plow pilots, or just #101? Could the plow pilots have been added at some later date after acquisition? (I ask because I don't know.)
There were only 8. 100-107. They were all ex-BN, nee NP.
So yeah, they were all the same.
Atlas in the past has done specific details for Amtrak. This is why we have Dash 8-32BWHs with blank panels in the radiator grille, as well as why we have Gullwing cabs for ATSF and BNSF Dash 8-40BWs.
In this run they went through the trouble, supposedly, of putting the larger Santa Fe headlight in the nose door (and then supposedly rejecting those ATSF A units for extra grab irons on the nose!).
Atlas varying details is NOT unprecedented.
The thing is that for all the other roads in the run, they could make an "as built" version, pre-modifications. You cant do that with an Amtrak hand me down.
Its not like these bits couldnt have been recycled, UP and GN also used the plow pilots (there's 5 roads that used em, thats a full production run right there), probably others as well. The lift rings were also common. The nose ladder rungs are simple to make and add on at the factory.
None of this is rocket science stuff. I suppose you could rifle through the P&D catalog, buy all the bits and do it, but no one has made that pilot in O, at least as far as I've found.
Hot Water posted:CentralFan1976 posted:Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
Yes, except for the lack of the stainless steel side panels, unless they are not showing up well in that photo.
And the grill should NOT be painted.
Jack, can you tell if the pic below is an F3 or F7? Whatever it is, it does NOT have the SS siding.
BTW, check out THAT fuel tank. 
theteejmiester posted:Stuff ignored to keep costs down. Imagine if every variation of individual F units were produced by Atlas how much they would cost in tooling alone. Then pass on that price to us. And all you would have is people moaning about the prices. If you want individual variations, then you will have to build it yourself. O scale is after all a builder Scale. My opinion though, others results May Vary
I'd rather moan about the prices.
The lift rings, the notched out pilot, the mini plow on the bottom of the pilot can all be added. As stated above, it's to keep costs down. Want it perfect out of the box then order a 3rd rail one and see how many will bite to secure the reservation. Heck even the PRR models are missing the lift rings.
Hey Jim:
Not speak for Jack, but that is the Railroad and History Museums (Temple TX) Santa Fe F7, #315. Originally Southern Pacific 6443.
You did pick up on the stainless steel but also some additional differences (Kick plates, low lift lugs, hand grabs) are not really Santa Fe prototype, but this unit still looks good.
Also, the F3's did have painted sides as show below in the as delivered look from EMD (according to note on the image).
What I don't know and can't tell from the picture above is: The "Silver" above the stainless steel, rear of the bonnet, is that painted (silver/gray) or is that unpainted, but treated or clear coated metal?
Charlie
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Charlie posted:Hey Jim:
Not speak for Jack, but that is the Railroad and History Museums (Temple TX) Santa Fe 315. Originally Southern Pacific 6443.
You did pick up on the stainless steel but also some additional differences (Kick plates, low lift lugs, hand grabs) are not really Santa Fe prototype, but this unit still looks good.
Charlie
Thanks Charlie. All I did was "google" Santa Fe F3 Warbonnet" and that was one of the pictures that came up. There were also others that did not show the SS siding. I have to wonder now if those were re-paints from a previous RR.
Jim, pretty hard to screw up the best paint scheme ever! Even on an engine from the Line that boasted the "most beautiful train", this is still an upgrade 
Charlie
Charlie posted:Hey Jim:
Not speak for Jack, but that is the Railroad and History Museums (Temple TX) Santa Fe F7, #315. Originally Southern Pacific 6443.
You did pick up on the stainless steel but also some additional differences (Kick plates, low lift lugs, hand grabs) are not really Santa Fe prototype, but this unit still looks good.
Also, the F3's did have painted sides as show below in the as delivered look from EMD (according to note on the image).
What I don't know and can't tell from the picture above is: The "Silver" above the stainless steel, rear of the bonnet, is that painted (silver/gray) or is that unpainted, but treated or clear coated metal?
Charlie
That is indeed paint Charlie, as EMD NEVER did "clear coated metal" for such side panels. Also, thanks for explaining just were that "fake" Santa Fe "F Unit" really came from. Some of these museums really make me laugh about some of the stunts they pull in the name of "historic accuracy".
Also, every one should take careful note of the REAL EMD builder photo (May 1948), and see that the Santa Fe "F Units" did NOT come "as delivered" with a headlight in the door and a Mars Signal Light up in the nose! The Santa Fe added their own Mars Signal Light, and moved the original headlight down to the door.
Charlie,
I believe that I discussed this exact picture with Jack 3-4 months ago. I am pretty sure that he said this picture was taken "before" the screens were added to any of these four units. If you e-x-p-l-o-d-e the picture you can easily see the indentation where the exterior screens are supposed to be applied.
SantaFeJim posted:Charlie,
I believe that I discussed this exact picture with Jack 3-4 months ago. I am pretty sure that he said this picture was taken "before" the screens were added to any of these four units. If you e-x-p-l-o-d-e the picture you can easily see the indentation where the exterior screens are supposed to be applied.
Jim is correct.
OK, still not completely clear about the screens.
In the "builders photo" it "looks: like I see the chicken wire mesh. Are the screens that were added after this image the same ones that are commonly seen on the F7's? talking about the long, stainless steel looking grills.
Meaning, were there grills placed over the mesh in operation?
Honestly, there are far more F3's with grills then without (just doing a quick search) but the image below looks to me like the units were in operation without stainless grills. Was this just a short lived configuration?
Maybe many of the photos on the web are of a later scheme when rail photography became more mainstream?
Charlie
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SantaFeJim posted:Charlie posted:Hey Jim:
Not speak for Jack, but that is the Railroad and History Museums (Temple TX) Santa Fe 315. Originally Southern Pacific 6443.
You did pick up on the stainless steel but also some additional differences (Kick plates, low lift lugs, hand grabs) are not really Santa Fe prototype, but this unit still looks good.
Charlie
Thanks Charlie. All I did was "google" Santa Fe F3 Warbonnet" and that was one of the pictures that came up. There were also others that did not show the SS siding. I have to wonder now if those were re-paints from a previous RR.
Those were prior to the stainless grills. You will find early photos before chicken wire even, just wide open space on some E units. No stainless panels yet either, just paint.
Charlie,
LAIDOFFSICK is correct about the stainless steel grills, and their addition later. The first design appearance stainless steel grills were manufactured by Farr Co., Later, American Air Filter Co. also brought out their own stainless steel grills, however when compared to the Farr grills, there was a noticeable difference in appearance.
Hot Water posted:CentralFan1976 posted:Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
Yes, except for the lack of the stainless steel side panels, unless they are not showing up well in that photo.
Aaaahhhmmm. If there is anyone hereabouts who should know the 16 class had aluminum painted sides and not stainless it would be Hot Water .
The F3s were retrofitted with F7 grills after the F7s came out in 1950. So photos showing the chicken wire grills will be 1946-1950ish.
rdunniii posted:Hot Water posted:CentralFan1976 posted:Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
Yes, except for the lack of the stainless steel side panels, unless they are not showing up well in that photo.
Aaaahhhmmm. If there is anyone hereabouts who should know the 16 class had aluminum painted sides and not stainless it would be Hot Water.
Well, well, well, what do you know! Not being a Santa Fe modeler, I had no idea that ALL their passenger "F Units" did NOT have stainless steel side panels. In my opinion, THAT was poor planning on the Santa Fe's part. At any rate, thanks for the correction. Along those same lines, the CB&Q E7A units also had a mix of stainless steel side panels vs. painted side panels.
LOS, your locomotive looks awesome! The weathering is just right. I love it!
I still am not sure if the Atlas F7 fuel tank is spot on or a little short but I think I want to add Mario's spacer to mine. I figure it might make it real close or even a little too big but I would rather the fuel tank be a little too large than a little too small.
Hot Water posted:rdunniii posted:Hot Water posted:CentralFan1976 posted:Laidoffsick posted:My Lionel F3's with lowered body.
Still THE gold standard. Fabulous work.
Yes, except for the lack of the stainless steel side panels, unless they are not showing up well in that photo.
Aaaahhhmmm. If there is anyone hereabouts who should know the 16 class had aluminum painted sides and not stainless it would be Hot Water.
Well, well, well, what do you know! Not being a Santa Fe modeler, I had no idea that ALL their passenger "F Units" did NOT have stainless steel side panels. In my opinion, THAT was poor planning on the Santa Fe's part. At any rate, thanks for the correction. Along those same lines, the CB&Q E7A units also had a mix of stainless steel side panels vs. painted side panels.
D**n, and here I was expecting a good story about that. After all all the E-units to that date did have stainless panels and these F3s were ordered specifically as passenger units. There is an excuse for the Warbonnet FTs having painted sides as they were freight units pressed into service until the F3s arrived.
Along the same lines, and I haven't seen a live sample yet, but the Sunset CB&Q E9s should look awesome with the stainless sides. The CB&Q E8s will have painted sides. And, unless someone backs out of a reservation they are all spoken for.
Mill City posted:theteejmiester posted:Stuff ignored to keep costs down. Imagine if every variation of individual F units were produced by Atlas how much they would cost in tooling alone. Then pass on that price to us. And all you would have is people moaning about the prices. If you want individual variations, then you will have to build it yourself. O scale is after all a builder Scale. My opinion though, others results May Vary
I'd rather moan about the prices.
I would agree with you in some cases. But I love building locomotives. If I have a accurate base I can add/build all the specific details for the particular unit I am modeling. I know I am not in the majority here. But that's why I am in O scale and not HO. I don't mind spending money on a particular modeler either. But I know that for many people a thousand dollars a locomotive would put a ABBA set far out of reach. Double edged sword I suppose.
Doug. Wonderful looking F units.
Any people with RR experience think that building 4000 units, maybe there could be different sized fuel tanks?
Any of them get replaced over the years?
I'm just taking a wild stab in the dark here.
