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My son and I visited the Louisville flea market Labor Day weekend.  One vendor had some trains, and buried under a few other items was an AMT engine box.  Figuring it was probably empty, I lifted on one corner and felt some weight inside.  Lifting the lid, lo and behold - one AMT/Auburn NYC powered F unit was inside.  Unlike Lionel's 2344/2354 NYC Fs, the AMT/Auburn and later KMT NYC lightning stripe units are much hard to find.  Closer inspection revealed it had been poorly stored.  Heavy corrosion on the sideframes, some more corrosion on the fuel tank area of the chassis, missing the decorative horns, cigarette smoke/basement filth - in its favor, the shell was intact (no cracks or splits, 1733 number boards both there), the pilot's paint wasn't chipped or scratched (all too common on AMT/KMT F units).  No price tags anywhere in sight (pet peeve of mine at flea markets - I hate when sellers have pricing based on what they perceive the contents of your wallet may be).  I was afraid the seller was going to spit out a price of several hundred dollars (which, for an intact and clean VG- wouldn't be too unreasonable).  Fortunately, the price asked wasn't stratospheric; the seller said he had chemicals that could clean up the sideframes with - no chemicals on earth were going to salvage those trucks, or repair that pitted chassis.  A bit of haggling and discussing the unsalvageable and missing parts brought the hammer down at $40.  Unless you have a stash of original AMT/KMT parts, a project like this one would be tough to pull off.  I dislike repainted parts like frames (unavoidable at times) - fortunately, I have some parts tucked away which I'll put to good use.  

 

I've posted pictures of what the engine looks like as found - as I work on bringing this one back from the grave, I'll post more snaps.  I think I'll be able to salvage this one and make something presentable from the carcass...

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Last edited by MTN
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Popped off the shell - the AMT/Auburn version of the F unit had a clear plastic shell that got masked over the windshield and porthole areas (very labor intensive); the AMT/Auburn RDC also came molded in clear plastic as well - it must have been a real nightmare to mask off all those windows.  In my NYC F unit, you can tell the shell is clear inside on the body mounting posts.  



After I finally managed to pop off the shell after removing the 4 screws, the inside of the chassis revealed more rust, especially on the reverse unit.  No repro parts from parts dealers for those e-units - if it doesn't work because of the heavy rust, I'll disassemble it and salvage the drum and finger piece as I can't get those short of finding a stray in someone's junkbox of mystery parts.  The motor is a heavy duty Pittman 7 pole beast; this one is currently frozen in place.  I have spares in my parts stash.  The chassis is flat black - I may have a spare in the bins.  



My suspicion is this was never run - no apparent wheel wear on the wheels, no grooving on the rollers.  The roller assemblies are a weakness of the AMT design - the plastic used for the bracket is prone to swell and misform, and the springs used weren't strong enoung to ensure good downward force.  There's also only one roller on each truck - it helps to run a jumper wire between the pickup assemblies so the engine is less likely to stall on switches.  These babies are lead sleds - no coasting whatsoever whenever power is cut.  I learned quickly to back off the throttle gradually to avoid derailments/pile-ups.



On the plus side, these came with heavy duty traction tires, and coupled with the Pittman motor that was rated to run on up to 24 volts gives you a potential stump puller.  I've dual motored a couple of my AMT/KMT Fs, and they can lug a really heavy train.  I'd guess more weight could be added as well for even more grunt.  I'll look in to dual motoring this one as the project moves along.  Here's some shots of the chassis, as well as one showing the clear palstic mounting struts.

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Last edited by MTN
Originally Posted by TrainsRMe:

Nice find!   I don't have any of those engines, but have always liked them.

They're out there, but my guess is for every AMT F unit out there, there's probably 5 or 6 hundred Lionel F units.  The AMT shell was molded in clear platic, and has a "hump" like some of the early Lionel FAs with the diecast frames (I've read this was a result of removing the shells from the mold to quickly/at too a high a temperature).  So far, I've managed to find AMTs in Southern, NYC (my latest find), SF blue freight scheme - oddly, neither AMT or KMT did the red/silver warbonnet, although I've seen a photo of what's supposed to be an AMT mock-up of the passenger paint scheme, the tuscan Pennsy, the rare (shades of American Flyer) imaginary Silver Streak, which was to go with a string of proposed/never made plastic molded passenger cars per an Auburn price list, and the ultra rare B&O as well.



As far as KMT versions go, the paint work is more neatly done, all KMT shells I've seen were molded in a turquoise colored plastic with the windshields and porthole areas opened up (no hump on the KMT shells), and there's a KMT logo painted on the back of the side of the shell which helps identify KMT production.  I have the green Pennsy, SF blue freight scheme, Southern (far more accurately done than the earlier AMT version), NYC and C&NW.  Oddly, I don't have the MKT/Frisco units (which appear to be a more common paint scheme than some other AMT/KMT units).  Perhaps another flea market will net me a pair of those someday.

Last edited by MTN
Originally Posted by laming:

Cool.

 

I find some of the more obscure 3 rail manufacturers interesting. I also like KMT/Kusan's FA series.  These were offered in some paint schemes like the Missouri Pacific, Frisco, Katy freight scheme... neat stuff.

 

 

KMT made a lot of different schemes available for their FA: Southern, Frisco, MKT, Missouri Pacific (freight with blue body and gray stripe, and passenger with mostly gray body and blue strips at top and bottom of shell), Bexel (drugstore promo), Union Pacific, Burlington, New Haven, Silver Star (rarely seen), Army, Navy, NdeM (as well as NdeM fantasy El Azteca and El Internacional schemes), a couple U.S. Space Special schemes for military sets, and KMT Lines.  I've heard rumors of SP shells as well.

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A gentle scrub/bath revealed the shell is in superb shape, confriming my suspicion that this was never run, but stored in poor conditions.  I located a pair of clear nylon horns on their original sprue and added those (if anyone has a pair of black or dark gray AMT/KMT horns, please let me know).  

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Originally Posted by Andrew B.:

Cool find. As I said in the Craigslist thread yesterday, I never find things like this, but I'd love to discover something uncommon one of these days!

The first AMT F unit I bought was my Southern; I paid a whopping $36 plus a few dollars shipping to get it about 15 years ago.  I haven't seen another AMT version since then, although I have 2 Like New pairs of the KMT version, and a single KMT Southern F that I had to sell awhile back.  If an stray pops up on Ebay these days, sellers typically have no clue what they have, or they're aware of what they have and slap pretty high pricing on their trains.  There's a small group of folks who actively collect AMT/Auburn/KMT/Kusan trains - you have to like the oddball stuff to pursue these items.   

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Light bulb over head moment:  the area on the shell where the horns install had absolutely no signs of horns ever being mounted.  I pulled out the wadding material that the engine had been packed with, and underneath were a mildewed instruction sheet, and a small manilla envelope.  One pair of black, nylon horns were inside the package - score!

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I really got into the smaller manufacturer's years ago. I came across these:

 

 

 

 

The couplers suffered from zinc pest, and I think MTN was the one who sent me the replacements. 

I've been on the fence about selling these for some time now. I just never run them, and they sit on the shelf getting dusty. Oddly, they run quite well, just not interested in them anymore. 

 

Anyway, look forward to seeing you progress on the NYC's. As you stated, it's not like fixing up a 2344 where parts are readily available.

For comparison's sake, I unearthed my lone KMT NYC F unit.  KMT did a better job handling the paint job: striping under nose was sharper (AMT's striping is a bit wobbly, and touched up here and there; it's similar to the AMT Santa Fe Fs that had red striping applied on some of the units to jazz them up).  The truck's sideframes and chassis are painted dark gray like the shell.  The air filters at the top of the carbody have silver outlining painted around the high points of the filter's framework; the nose herald is larger/more detailed, and the engine's number 1733 (NYC had an F7 numbered 1733 - the AMT/KMT body is a sorta F7, save for the F3 style dynamic brake grids like the one's on Lionel's F unit, rather than a circular fan (which is larger than the other fans on top of the carbody.  Also note the KMT logo painted towards the rear of the shell.  My KMT's shell is a little rough compared to my AMT I just picked up, but again, these are tough to find in any condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Originally Posted by D500:

AMT/KMT stuff is interesting - though the "humped" shell always kept me away from those examples. Regardless, a nice find.

 

As some of this DNA (body only, I guess) survives/survived as Williams F7's, any of their detail pieces (horns, for example) helpful?

I think Williams changed the horns so they aren't nylon/mount with 2 pegs sticking out out from the bottom of the casting.

 

As far as the humped shell goes, I'm a native born Hoosier, and I'm inclined to get as much of those Indiana made models as I can.  It's a shame AMT didn't paint up their Fs for Monon or Wabash - I'd have liked more models from railroads that ran through Indiana to add to the fleet.

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Originally Posted by Andrew B.:

The "hump" would annoy me terribly even if that's how they usually came when new. I've been shopping some Lionel FAs for a while but all I have found have that problem. I think with how rare these are that I could live with it though.

Think of the hump as a beauty mark...   

 

I wonder if the use of the clear plastic for the entire shell might be part of the hump on those AMT shells.

Fellows, I don't want to hijack your posts, but do any of you know of Kusan/AMT parts suppliers who carry replacement operating couplers with the armature for passenger cars. I have several with "drooping" cast couplers that I'd like to replace with the operating couplers.

 

thanks

Originally Posted by PeterA:

Fellows, I don't want to hijack your posts, but do any of you know of Kusan/AMT parts suppliers who carry replacement operating couplers with the armature for passenger cars. I have several with "drooping" cast couplers that I'd like to replace with the operating couplers.

 

thanks

Peter:

 

There are parts suppliers on this Yahoo Group: 

 

AMT_Kusan_KMT_Kris_Williams_Trains - Yahoo Groups

 

There seems to be a lot of interest in AMT and Kusan these days.

 

Bill

 

I've got a couple options for this project:  one is to convert this to a dummy and pair it up with my KMT version; the problem is the sideframes and chassis I currently have are either unpainted, or poorly repainted.  Another possibility is to put a chassis from another NYC F unit I have under the nice original AMT shell (the shell on the possible donor isn't a factory painted NYC shell, and it would be the easiest way to make another powered unit up - it was also dual motored by me to pull strings of those heavy AMT aluminum passenger cars).  I'm inclined to leave the rusty original chassis intact as it's the only AMT chassis I have with all the original wiring intact.

Originally Posted by brr:

I would be inclined to buy a gallon of Evapo-rust and soak the chassis in it to see how it cleans up. Obviously you've got paint chipping and pitting, but once the corrosion is removed, it might be a salvagable part. Just a thought...

I'll most likely neutralize the corrosion on the frame - some paste made from baking soda might be the ticket here.

After some dedicated digging I finally located the first NYC F I'd picked up - it had a cab that looks like it was decorated by Williams, but the internals were from a KMT NYC F unit (the gray trucks tipped that off - the AMT version I just got has black sideframes).  I dual motored this one sometime back - it easily pulls a looooong string of AMT aluminum passenger cars (those ride on fast angle wheels swiped from MPC and other donor trucks - the wheels are removed from their axles, then swapped in place of the AMT wheels which are very poor rolling). 

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