Bcr battery?

I don't think so, the BCR is intended for use in MTH locomotives only. Does the battery have a J&W Electronics label on it? It would best to remove it. Your engine does not have a charging circuit to power that battery.

GRJ has built a very suitable battery replacement that will work nicely for you. They can be purchased here: YLB RailSounds Battery Replacement.

None of the Lionel units we have charge batteries, got the GRJ units for our legacy stuff that looses sound over switches. Maybe someone up graded it or plugged the BCR in error. You would need to see if it has a charging circuit installed. The Lionel manual calls for a 9V battery and doesn't mention charging capabilities.

Thats what I thought. The last owner must have installed it not knowing what he was doing. I run in command all the time so I will remove the battery. This way I can place one in my mth ps2 loco. Thanks.

Roger,

I run in command all the time so I will remove the battery.

If I recall correctly, there was a (J&W, I believe) BCR model that was designed specifically for TMCC/Legacy engines. It came with a charging circuit.

Before you remove the BCR, you might want to see if that's what's in your engine.

Will do barry.

The Price List at the J and W Electronics Website includes a Charging Circuit for Lionel locomotives @ $19.95.

My RailSounds battery is available on the Henning's website, it is the form-factor of a 9V battery and includes the charging circuit with no extra stuff to find room for.  Just connect the single wire to track power, plug the battery clip onto the YLB, and you never have to tinker with the battery again.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

Wow john this looks great. Never knew you made these. I run in command all the time. Just opened up the tender of this engine because the rear marker lights were not working. Then noticed the bcr in there. Did not think about it at the time. The next day it dawned on me that these were not made for tmcc/legacy engines. Just wanted to ask here to be sure. 

Since I run in command only would your battery be worth getting? I have never put a nine volt battery ever in a tmcc or legacy engine. Just because I have never seen the need since I dont run in convetional. Just curious. 

The battery is only useful in command stuff for dropouts going across switches and/or dirty track as a rule.  Frequently, the tender with the sound system drops the sound even though the locomotive continues, that's when the battery comes in handy.  If you don't have those issues, you don't need a battery for command only use.  I have some steamers that drop sound regularly, others seem to be fine.  If nothing shows up checking rollers and wiring, I add the battery.  I happen to have lots of them here.

John's battery is so worth it.  I had a Lionel 10 Wheeler that kept dropping sound when going slow over a switch, and it fixed that problem.

As for the BCR in Lionel, unless there is a charging circuit added too, it's not going to do anything.  I have never seen a photo of their charging circuit, so I have no idea how to tell if there is one or not.  A quick test is to leave your locomotive powered up for a couple minutes after starting the sounds and then turn the power off.  Even if you were in a command environment, once power is cut the locomotive will keep playing sounds and then go into shutdown if there is a charged battery installed.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The battery is only useful in command stuff for dropouts going across switches and/or dirty track as a rule.  Frequently, the tender with the sound system drops the sound even though the locomotive continues, that's when the battery comes in handy.  If you don't have those issues, you don't need a battery for command only use.  I have some steamers that drop sound regularly, others seem to be fine.  If nothing shows up checking rollers and wiring, I add the battery.  I happen to have lots of them here.

John,

All our TMCC engines restart chuffing after a sound drop out over a switch in Command mode. Sadly the new Legacy steamers we have are the ones which required your YLB Battery replacement because they do not restart the sounds after dropping out. I'm sure it is a bad Lionel software revision which causes this, quite a setback of design.

I've seen both Legacy and TMCC locomotives that don't restart without a reset, I have never really identified a particular pattern or model.

John, is this a plug into an existing plug socket? 

Yes, the existing battery clip is connected to the matching connector, and the single red wire goes to the center roller.  In many locomotives, this is in a wire nut, and you just add this wire to the bundle.

YLB - So what's in there? Capacitors and rectifier & voltage regulator?

Jim Harrington posted:

YLB - So what's in there? Capacitors and rectifier & voltage regulator?

Quite a lot of stuff.   Obviously, there's a supercap, need that to store the energy.  I first use a linear regulator to charge the supercap to 5 volts.  Since the supercap rated at 5.4 volts, and the RailSounds board needs around 7 volts minimum, it's obvious that I can't simply use that voltage to power the battery output directly.  So, there's a second switching boost regulator to generate 8 volts for the output.  There's a good reason for the two regulators.  My boost regulator will continue to supply the 8 volts until the supercap discharges to around 2 volts, so I get to use a majority of the stored energy in the capacitor for power.  If I assume 19 joules of energy when charged to 5V, and 3 joules of energy when charged to 2 volts, I got to use a vast majority of the energy in the cap, 16 joules. If I were to simply charge two supercaps in series and use the voltage directly, I'd only get to use a much smaller fraction of the stored energy as when the two series caps discharged to 7 volts, I'd be done.  That also only allowed me to use about half the stored energy in the capacitors.  That's the way other supercap based backup batteries are configured.  The more efficient use of the stored energy allows me to make a smaller package with only one supercap.  That allows the YLB to easily able to fit into the form factor of a 9V flat battery.  Actually, it's considerably thinner than the flat battery.

John I'm sold. I just ordered one to try. I took all the batteries out of my tmcc engines. Then I discovered the missing sound thing with my challenger. I'm looking forward to trying this. Thanks 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jim Harrington posted:

YLB - So what's in there? Capacitors and rectifier & voltage regulator?

Quite a lot of stuff.   Obviously, there's a supercap, need that to store the energy.  I first use a .....

Thanks for the thorough explanation.  I think need to re-read a few times...

GHD posted:

John I'm sold. I just ordered one to try. I took all the batteries out of my tmcc engines. Then I discovered the missing sound thing with my challenger. I'm looking forward to trying this. Thanks 

Yep, if you have a TMCC/Legacy locomotive that drops sound occasionally, this is a good option.  I have a few that do that.  OTOH, I have many command locomotives that I've never had a sound drop issue with, and I don't bother with batteries for those. 

Obviously, for conventional users, the YLB is a good option as you'll eliminate the jumps when you change directions, etc.

John, changing subjects here. Have you tried my traction tire changing tools yet?

Honestly, no.  I haven't really had the need for changing in tight quarters yet.  If I can, I pop the sideframes off diesels to make the job easy.

FWIW, the stand MTH takes on the BCR is neutral.  Not for and not against.  

I think we're talking Lionel here Marty.   FWIW, my battery replacement does not work with MTH equipment, it's specifically designed for the requirements of Lionel RailSounds battery backup.  MTH requires a different design approach.

Understood John.  

GunRunnerJohn:

Here are my questions.

MTH

For PS-1 locomotives, I use J&W's original BCR.

For PS-2 locomotives, I use J&W's BCR-2.

My understanding is that PS-3 locomotives already have a capacitor built in by MTH, so neither a battery nor a BCR / BCR2 is needed.

Is this correct ?

Lionel Steamers & Diesels

What brand & model of BCR should be used with TMCC, RailSounds, & Legacy locomotives ?

Atlas -O Steamers & Diesels

what brand & model of BCR should be used with these 3-rail locomotives ?

3RD Rail Steamers & Diesels

What brand & model of BCR should be used with 3RD Rail ?

K-Line Diesels

what brand & model of BCR should be used ?

Weaver Diesels

What brand & model of BCR ?

Williams Diesels

What brand & model of BCR ?

Thanks in advance !!!

For anything that uses Lionel RailSounds and has a battery connection, I would naturally recommend the YLB.  These are designed to work with any version of Lionel Railsounds from RS 2.5 to the latest Lionel Legacy RS-Lite boards.  One wire connects to the center track power and the unit is installed.  Note the circled connections in the graphics below for the two types of battery provisions.

There are two versions, one for older RailSounds that has a battery cable and clip.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

One is for new locomotives that use the RailSounds-Lite board, many recent versions don't include the battery cable. This version plugs directly into the RS-Lite battery connector.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement (RS-Lite)

Note that manufacturers like 3rd Rail, Weaver have had several different types of control systems over the years.  If they're using the QSI boards with the 9V rechargeable battery, the BCR is a suitable replacement.  If they're TMCC command models, they'd be using Lionel RailSounds, the YLB is a suitable battery for those.  K-Line had older conventional sound boards that didn't use a battery and then Lionel RailSounds which would use the YLB.  Any Atlas that is a TMCC model also uses Lionel RailSounds and would use the YLB.  Older conventional Atlas would typically not use a battery.

GR-John:

Thsnks for response.

Without opening up the locomotive, is there anyway to tell from the loco manual, product description, or manufacture date if the unit contains the older RS board or RS-Lite board ?

Are your products only available from Hennings Trains ?  Do any hobby stores in Chicago area stock your products ?

Thanks in advance !!!

CB&Q Bill,

I believe Berwyn Hobbies on Ogden Avenue stocks the BCR & BCR-2.  I'm pretty sure I bought a BCR from them several years back to put into an old MTH PS1 engine that I run only at Christmas time.  BUT, call them before you go to confirm.  Chicagoland Hobbies on Northwest Highway might have them as well.

Don't think I've ever seen any of GRJ's products stocked in Chicago, but I could be wrong and often am.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

I believe Berwyn Hobbies on Ogden Avenue stocks the BCR & BCR-2. 

Neither of which is useful for RailSounds!

Bill, the YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement can be used in any of them if you have the battery cable.  RS-Lite boards used to also come with battery cables, but Lionel dropped the cables from recent Legacy production.  If I knew the actual Lionel product numbers, I could tell you want sound boards they have.  As far as other brands, they should mention battery provisions in their manuals.  Stuff like K-Line and Weaver will always have the older RailSounds systems.  I truthfully don't know what Atlas has in recent production, they make so few that I haven't seen any of them.

GR-John:

Thanks for the response.

Are your YLB products stocked at any Chicago area stores ?

Chuck:

Thanks for the response.  

Yes, Chicagoland Hobby is my main hobby store & they stock J&A's BCR & BCR-2 products.  All of my current J&A products have been purchased & installed at Chicagoland Hobby.

Although I have never purchased a BCR from Berwyn Hobbies, I have purchased several locomotives & rolling stock from them over the years.  I love their interior mural of CB&Q 4-8-4 #5632.  I purchased my 1st Zephyr model from Berwyn Hobbies (MTH Premier CB&Q F3-ABA #9960ABC with 60' scale plated aluminum California Zephyr cars).

I like all hobby shops !!!

Bill, my stuff is currently just sold through Henning's Trains.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement (RS-Lite)