Skip to main content

I'm designing the benchwork for my new layout, and I have a few questions.  Here's a top view diagram.

1470440592451-1876171324

The scale is 4 squares for every square foot, a dot indicates a leg, and two X's with a dashed line between them indicates a joist.  The layout will be made from 5 tables.  The 4x8 and 1x8 will be one 5x8 table, and the 4x6 and 1x4 will be one table.  The 5 tables include the aforementioned tables as well as the two 2x4 tables and the 2x8 table.  The tables will be connected with C clamps.  I plan to use 2x4's for the legs and 1x4's for the joists and the fascia.

My question is, do I need legs in the middle of each table (like in the center of the plywood, not just the center of the fascia)?  Or, is a leg on each corner enough for the table to be sturdy?  Also, what thickness plywood is recommended?  I was planning on 5/8".  I'm not going to put foam or homasote on top; it's just going to be roadbed on top of the plywood.

Thanks!

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 1470440592451-1876171324
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Since 5/8" is nominal 1/2" plywood for the deck, a leg in the center would be needed on the 4' x 6' and 4' x 8' sections when using 1" x 4" framing.

I use the square drive trim screws when working with 1" x ? framing to prevent splitting. They will also sink the head nicely for a flush finish as it is small.

You will have a slightly louder layout from a drumhead effect using the thinner plywood. Foam, cork, or homosote cut for roadbed under the track will mitigate it enough.

Can you navigate a 12" aisle? Leaving out the 1' x 8' section would provide a 24" aisle. Do you need that for the track plan?

It's not difficult to use 1/4" bolts to hold the sections together. The clamps may become loose due to changes in the wood. This is your call.

Check the floor for starting level-ness. A T-nut and carriage bolt in the bottom of the legs is an easy to do leveling system.

That's my 2¢

Moonman posted:

Since 5/8" is nominal 1/2" plywood for the deck, a leg in the center would be needed on the 4' x 6' and 4' x 8' sections when using 1" x 4" framing.

I use the square drive trim screws when working with 1" x ? framing to prevent splitting. They will also sink the head nicely for a flush finish as it is small.

You will have a slightly louder layout from a drumhead effect using the thinner plywood. Foam, cork, or homosote cut for roadbed under the track will mitigate it enough.

Can you navigate a 12" aisle? Leaving out the 1' x 8' section would provide a 24" aisle. Do you need that for the track plan?

It's not difficult to use 1/4" bolts to hold the sections together. The clamps may become loose due to changes in the wood. This is your call.

Check the floor for starting level-ness. A T-nut and carriage bolt in the bottom of the legs is an easy to do leveling system.

That's my 2¢

Thanks for your inputs.  I will be using cork roadbed so noise shouldn't really be an issue.  Unfortunately the 1x8 section is needed for the track plan.  Here's a link to the track plan:

https://ogrforum.com/t...out-progress-updates

I am able to navigate a 12" aisle, but I'm considering making the 1x8 a hinged fold-down section.

I realize I could use bolts to connect the sections, but I use clamps on my current layout and they have worked well for me.  Thanks for the idea about using a bolt as a levelling system; I'll have to try that.

In my opinion, I would NEVER use 2X4s. They are too heavy, and will definitely warp, sooner or later. Our layout is constructed with 1X4s glued together in a "L" shape for the legs, and all the framing and cross members are "L Girder construction", made with 1X4s with a 1X2 glued on the top edge. The lumber is nice and light weight, yet strong enough to support 5 big adults on top of the 3/4" thick roofing plywood. Plus, NOTHING MOVES/WIGGLES if and when you bump into the layout!

Last edited by Hot Water

So many here are so absolutely determined to build train tables as if they were structural members of a house.

If you really need to to be able to crawl up on your table . . . well, so be it. I do not and, considering my girth and weight, that is rather fortunate.

Dressed 2X2s for legs, 3x1s for cross pieces, 1/4" ply for the surface with 1-1/2" foam atop that has been fine for me. But, no, I don't stand or crawl on it. It's been fine. 2X4s are for load-bearing walls! 3/4" ply is just total overkill for trains IMO.

Were I starting over . . . I'd do it no differently! And yes, I certainly CAN lean on my tables without fear of collapse!

Look at the 

L girder frame style for everything, even the legs. Thinner, wider wood will be straight, light, and stronger. Glue and screw.

I'd think hard on skipping foam or homasote. With a full layout in action in the basement here, you needed to turn up the TV upstairs

 

Foam is pretty sturdy, I use a knee board or book, and or 6" square palm rests across he rails to climb on.

The orange layout would be my recommended leg placement based on your drawing.  

Screen Shot 2016-08-06 at 6.18.14 PM

The Green is what it would look like using my benchwork.  Slightly fewer legs but the same layout.  Note: The 12 deep modules are more than strong enough to be supported from their side without legs especially once a plywood surface is attached to the layout. 

Screen Shot 2016-08-06 at 6.18.24 PM

 

On a side note: I would highly recommend making that isle way larger.  12 inches is not enough room for one's butt to pass safely.  18 inches would be better but 24 inches would be ideal if you have the room. 

 

Attachments

Images (2)
  • Screen Shot 2016-08-06 at 6.18.14 PM
  • Screen Shot 2016-08-06 at 6.18.24 PM

OK, here is an updated design.  The length has been extended by one foot to allow for a two foot wide aisle.  Legs have been added to the middle of the 4x8+1x8 and 4x6+1x4 tables, and legs have been added to the center of the sides of those tables as well as the 2x8 table.  Each color represents a separate table, and the dimensions marked show the size of the plywood top to be used.  I will use 5/8" plywood, 1x4's for joists and fascia, and legs with braces (or L girder style legs; I'm not sure yet).

14705344819042135507820

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 14705344819042135507820

Doug,   I am building a large layout that is "moveable"... Total size when done will be L shaped 23 x 27 feet.  Currently what's done is 23 x 18.  I chose to to build L girder bases with 1 x 4 mahogany decking for my L girders with 1 x 2 pine tops for form the L... The variation on the upper part of the L Girder/Joist design, that has worked really well for me is to attach the 1 x 4 joists to the 1/2 inch plywood decking roughly on 16" centers with some stringers screwed 90 degrees to the joists, that provide resistance to bending & twisting...   the other advantage is that I have two levels, one 7.5 inches above the other, and some open frame benchwork where I can create elevation changes in the scenery, both higher and lower. 

Regarding moving:  I already had to move 3 large sections 2 years ago.  I was able to set up the L girder bases and then place the table top sections pre-assembled, and pre-wired on top of the L girder foundations, "slide them together" and pull them tight with 1/4 x 20 bolts and tee nuts installed in the ends.  The wiring goes together with Cinch connectors and or terminal strips.  If you would like me to send you some photos contact me at :   cjatrains@yahoo.com.   The other feature I like about this is that it allows me the flexibility to move a "module edge" 2 to 12 inches  to the best point for the track joints so that critical turnouts or curves don't end up straddling a joint.    As others have said, I don't recommend using any 2 x 4 lumber, all my legs are 2 x 2, L girders are 1x4 + 1x2,  joists are 1x4, stringers are 1x2.   I do however recommend this method for a layout that may have to be moved. 

Oman posted:

I think L-girder is misunderstood. It is for me. I found an earlier thread about L-girder and after rifling through all the responses, I finally saw a picture of an L-girder without a whole lot of other structure piled on top and I still don't get it

 

 

An L or T or H or I beam is a concept to build with more than a specific table design. Those intricate designs you likely saw are both "show worthy" to an industrial level, and portable if needed.(2pc, folding base & top worthy of being called a platform) It will likely weigh many pounds less than a 2x4 slab too.

But just using the CONCEPT of the angle (L) in your own design can be a big step to this being a portable lifelong thing you could move more easily, and build off when you have the square footage to expand. You might need 2 more inches of storage thickness for each table top, but they wont warp on end either.

A skinny, but tall board like a 3/4 x 6 with 6 inch being vertical can support more dead weight than a more squared 2x4.

 An angle added (L,T,etc) stops deflection across the horizontal plane, which is the 3/4" widths job. More efficient support out of less square inch with proper placement of the widths and angles.     Even the top when attached right, adds rigidity with the angle where it attaches.

2" width is overkill for leaning forward on, and 4" is a bit shy for supporting weight. A 1x6 or even  3/4x8 is a better side frame, for mounting things, and runner structure too.

The support leg in the middle can be skipped if you run good 6-8" support the length of the table, near the center. To do that your normal runners will be shorter, more numerous,and staggered slightly for easy assembly.

L legs can have less X bracketing, maybe none, or the braces might sit higher on the legs leaving a more open side area for accessing the underside.

The L legs are no more difficult than a 2x4 to attach or remove. Folding hardware likely fits both. A plate, or wood can be added for wheels, and wheels with plates can usually be used attached at just three points.

You might save money on short screws vs long ones. But a predrill might be a necessary evil on the skinny wood,  but the quality is worth it.

Two 1x4s in a T or L is also much stronger and warp free than the single 2x4.

Insist on 2x4s? Keep to 4'  or smaller tables, -12” max space on runners, braces everywhere.

The 2x4 may B quick & easy. I've done it myself. But the wood was free.

If I spent a dime on wood, it would have to be four sides of 6-8" x? ..,.. The rest would be nit picky, but you sort of asked what the best way is, not how to "get-er-done".

Rich kept it simple, the images made it look hard. It's more work, but not "hard" and the result is so much better. The fact he chimed in should be a something to really consider. HW might have SOME experience outside of the real thing. Chris agrees, and I'm ready to write you a book..,... Look at the L girder again.

Just for fun, assemble an L from scrap, bang it around, throw it, maybe even park your econo car on it; but see if it changes your mind. Glue helps, but screws alone should impress you.

 Or Flip a couch or chair over and you'll see angles used. Inside a wood TV cabinet they glue short runners, to the center only, to stop bowing there, etc.,etc 

Doug:

I don't have a picture of the leg assembly by itself but if you look at the picture below you will get a good idea.

The leg assembly is basically two 2x4's with two 1x4 (1x3 is good also) screwed together. You can build as many of these as you want and tie them together with 1x4's. The beauty is that you can place them wherever you want - vary the distance and orientation. You can also attach 1x4's midsection for added support.

The cut list then becomes real simple:

2 x 4 (cut to same length)

1 x4 (cut to various lengths)

Joe

PS - wonder if Pro Hobby and I are thinking the same?

 

Dirty Dog Railway 0018

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Dirty Dog Railway 0018

Add Reply

Post
The Track Planning and Layout Design Forum is sponsored by

AN OGR FORUM CHARTER SPONSOR

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×