Best fit for Golden Gate Depot Super Chief cars

The closest thing available to that time frame is an E6, and E1 would be the correct engine but they are not available in 3 rail. Passenger F units were not available until after WWII.



Here's a WWII picture of the Super Chief headed by an E6.

Rich,

First off, do not be surprised if this quickly becomes a Lionel vs. MTH thread.

As far as your questions, I think you are correct to stay away from Rail King engines. The GGD cars are 1/48 scale and you need an engine to match. I would recommend you think about getting E units to pull these, like an E-6 AB or ABA, instead of F units. I think they would look better in front of the GGD cars plus I believe the Chiefs were pulled by E units.

Ron

Thanks for the heads-up and the information. I notice that MTH has an E8....would that work?

Marker, may I ask what your loco is....and which brand?

Thanks much,
Rich

Rich,

E-7s and E-8s were not produced until after WW-II. E-8s did not come on the scene until around 1950. As Marker mentioned, an E-6 would be your best bet for 1937.

Ron

OK, thanks - so since I am still kind of new to this....is there a maker of the E6?

Thanks,
Rich

It is a Lionel A unit and MTH B unit. The Lionel only came as AA's and MTH was the only manufacturer of B's.

My guess is that the Lionel E6's have been much harder to find lately and they are probably up for a re-release with the Legacy operating system. MTH will probably re-issue their E6 which comes as an A-B-A fairly soon.

Santa Fe didn't have E8's until the 50's, but unless you are a stickler for coming as close as possible, you can run anything you want.

The truth is this set of cars only ran together one year on the Santa Fe and an E1 would be the only accurate engine. Because no manufacturer make one in 3 rail, it's really your call.

Thanks much for all the information. That is what I enjoy about this hobby - folks are more than happy to offer information.

Now the hunt for engines commences!


Peace,
Rich

Rich,

One more thing. If you bought all the GGD cars, that is a lot of weight. I bought a Lionel E-6 AA set, which is made up of one powered A-unit and one non-powered A-unit, to pull my K-Line 18" Golden State set. With the extra sale dome car, the additional incorrect dome car, and another RPO the set is 11 cars total. That single powered A-unit had a hard time pulling all these cars.

I finally bought another Lionel E-6 set fairly cheap to get a second powered unit. The two powered A-units now do a great job pulling all 11 cars. The added benefit is that both units also have sound.

Ron

While not Super Chief accurate, I think it would be era appropriate to see the MTH Premier Blue Goose (streamline 4-6-4) pulling 1937 passenger cars. And it looks really nice to boot!

Just wondering where you found these cars to buy and if your source has anymore. I have been looking for these cars for a year without success.

Thanks,
SuperChief

Hi,

Thanks for all the help. I kind of like the Blue Goose - could be a cool look.

As to where I got this set: The Train Loft in North Carolina. Jeff, the owner, was a great help to me. Not sure if he has anymore, but you could check him out.

Rich

The Blue Goose does look sweet!

A forum member, Dreyfuss Hudson detailed the GGD cars and made this video, headed by the Blue Goose.

Wow. That is sweet!

OK, now I have to be on the look out for a Blue Goose!

You folks have been great!

Thanks so much.
Rich

Beautiful Cars,....would a 3751 steam pull those?

quote:

would a 3751 steam pull those?

I believe that might have been one of the backup engines if the diesels failed.

Or are you asking if Lionel's 3751 could handle the GGD train? I would assume that if the MTH Blue Goose Hudson could, the Lionel 3751 should.

OK, another question (or two):

1. The 1937 consist would have been in use for how long?

2. If it was in use longer than 5 years, couldn't it have been pulled by a DL 109 or other possibilities?

Just questions coming from my lack of knowledge (and the somewhat incomplete information on Wikipedia!).

Thanks,
Rich

I have 3rd Rail 3751 and a 3752 that I use for the Super Chief GGD cars.

Rich:

Congratulations, they are beautiful passenger cars. Not to make your engine choice more complicated, but since the correct engine configuration is not available for these cars, you have the choice to go with what you like and what looks best to you. The PAs are long and with an A-B-A combo, this gives you yet another option.

Good luck with your decision.

Thanks for help everybody. I actually like the PAs - never thought of them - now have to find a set that is decent and fits my budget.

Part of my "problem" is I want the trains to look as good if sitting on a shelf in between runs as when they are running. I consider these kinetic art...go figure.

Peace,
Rich

quote:

Originally posted by SuperChief:
Just wondering where you found these cars to buy and if your source has anymore. I have been looking for these cars for a year without success.

Thanks,
SuperChief

http://www.publicdeliverytrack...te-Depot-1937/Detail

The E series diesels are my favorite for the Super Chief.

Blue Goose would not have pulled the streamlined Super Chief. The DL-109's would be appropriate, an A-B pair. E-6's were released in 1940 and were used on the Super Chief.

PA's were post WW-2.

Thanks again for all the input. But a question I have is how long would these passenger cars have been in service (Navajo and other Pueblo names).

Thanks,
Rich

The railroad ordered the original, original set from Budd. The second set was a mixed Budd and PS (sleeper/observation) combination. Original service was not daily, trains left Chicgao on Tuesday and Saturday and the LA train's left on Tuesday and Friday. In 1946 every other day departure's are begun and in 1948 additional equipment is acquired from PS and this allows for daily departures. In 1950/51 new train sets are acquired from Budd/ACF/Pullmand Standard including dome cars.

I don't know when the specific cars from the original Budd 1937 trains set were officially retired or pulled from the Super Chief. I would suspect around 1950/51 when the trains were re-equiped.

quote:

when the specific cars from the original Budd 1937 trains set were officially retired or pulled from the Super Chief. I would suspect around 1950/51

I don't think that's correct. (I'm checking.) Pullman made Santa Fe pull them as soon as they could supply a set. Because the Super Chief was so well recognized, PS insisted that as soon as they could supply a set of cars, the Budd set would be retired for the Super Chief.

As I mentioned above, the first streamlined Super Chief set was used for a year. The reason was that because the Super Chief was an all Pullman train, Pullman wanted Santa Fe to use their passenger cars if they were going to supply service. In 1938, the second streamlined set of passenger cars were delivered by Pullman-Standard and Santa Fe broke up the first set of Budd cars.

I know the Navajo showed up on the Chief from time to time. It is now in Golden, Colorado at the Colorado Railroad Museum.

BTW the 1937 set of Super Chief cars was reputed to have the most luxurious interiors of all the Super Chief car sets. There was extensive use of rare and exotic woods that were even in 1937 very expensive.

Here is a quote from Super Chief and El Capitan by Patrick Dorin regarding the period around the arrival of the PS sleepers.

"The new sleeping cars built by Budd for the first lightweight Super Chief all had interior arrangements which were never duplicated on other lightweight sleeping cars. One could say this equipment became orphans with no other equipment with such accommodations, which could be operated in the same sleeping car line. Despite their initial popularity and virtual custom design and construction, these cars were soon assigned as extra cars, or on various short overnight schedules and were no longer assigned to the Super Chief.

This is very interesting. I appreciate the time and energy. My uncle is a volunteer at the Colorado Railroad Museum, working on the Garden Railroad that they have there, as well as assisting where necessary. That is where I saw the Navajo, and just thought it would be great to have a model of it. So, when I saw it online, I got it while the getting' was good!

I have to say that the animated conversation is what gives me passion to learn more. I appreciate what you all are offering.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Young:
OK, another question (or two):

2. If it was in use longer than 5 years, couldn't it have been pulled by a DL 109 or other possibilities?

Just questions coming from my lack of knowledge (and the somewhat incomplete information on Wikipedia!).

Thanks,
Rich

Once, Rich . . . only once.

The performance of the pre-war Alco-GE cab and booster on their initial trip was so horrible, that the Mechanical Department immediately banished them from heavy grade country west of LaJunta and Clovis. My long-time friend, Phil Kauke was about 19 years old, and often photographed trains at the depot in Pasadena, CA He got a friendly tip from the telegraph operator, that a blizzard of wires was coming and going, about a new Alco passenger diesel making its way west on No. 17. He was on hand when it pulled to a stop at Pasadena, and took photos with his Kodak 616 Monitor. He recalled that the noise was very noticeable, as the side panels and their rivets were all vibrating enthusiastically, even at idle.

You won't find that in Wikipedia

In spite of that, I might get the new and improved DL109-110 that MTH is offering and use them on my own GGD Super Chief. It's a model railroad and, if some fat, nerdy, know-it-all ever criticizes me for it I'll just ask him to show me how much more realistic his Super Chief is. Enjoy your cars and whatever engine you choose to pull them with.

Tom: Thanks for sharing that piece of information....love the "inside scoop!"

Well, I need to find a way to create an E1 I think! Maybe find an E6 (scarce) or do what you are doing - the DL 109.....Just love the art deco of the E1 though!

Peace,
Rich

quote:

Originally posted by rdunniii:

quote:

Originally posted by SuperChief:
Just wondering where you found these cars to buy and if your source has anymore. I have been looking for these cars for a year without success.

Thanks,
SuperChief

http://www.publicdeliverytrack...te-Depot-1937/Detail

I have contacted Beth about those. I am not sure why she has 2 and 3 rail available online because she has no 3 rail. I sent her an email a month ago asking the same thing for the 5th time. But thanks for passing the link along.

SuperChief

Been over a year since this posted. (I've been off the forum for a while). As far as the Blue Goose goes, I used the term 'pinch hit' in the video. It most likely never moved the SC, but it looks real good doing it in O scale. 'Marker' was a real big help with photos of the original '38 train. On the cars, tHe hardest part was putting the vents in the correct spots.  All the photos are of a train trailing behind the very photographable E-1's. A lot of photo enlargment, cross referencing and manipulation went into deciphering what went where.