Black Hall

I agree and hope that a group will step up and have a layout running in the Black Hall.  Anybody have any word?

It is very tough to do a layout in the black hall. 

1. You don't have time to walk the show

2. It becomes very expensive, on avg. it's about $600 per member for food, motel, etc. 

3. You have to arrive on Wednesday for set up and tear down on Saturday afternoon. 

4. Not every member of a club can do it for various reasons. 

5. The TCA does not offer to help with the costs, the club bears all the cost. 

Its great to see clubs at the show but so few can do it. And for those that do, bravo.

The April 2013 registration booklet alluded to it I think, but did not mention participants by name, so I guess we will have to wait and see unless participants themselves or EDTCA York volunteers can fill us in.

-Dave

My guess is that, for the reasons David noted and a couple of other reasons, you'll not see a modular group displaying at the April York.  I hope I'm wrong, but I kind of doubt that I am.

You want to see layout's, go to the Big E in Springfied, MA. not York.

Eddie has it right.

I belong to a modular group and we have been on a waiting list to show at The Big E for 2 years. Trainfest in Milwaukee is another good one. Layouts are what these shows are all about.

York, can be a very unfriendly and hostile environment to run a layout. Of the 14,000 paid attendees only a small percentage actually go into the Black Hall. Of that small percentage there is never a shortage of people to tell you something negative about the layout or the type of trains you run.

I belong to Lower Susquehanna Valley Modular Railroaders.  we are local to York but will not be displaying.  Its way to hard on the limited number of members to get set up on Wednesday and man the display the whole time.  Some of the club members are retired but most of us aren't.  The manpower commitment is too much to handle.  We do display at York for Greenburg shows!

(emphasis mine)

I'm really sorry to hear that.  No matter who shows up, I always make a point to try to stop by and chat with at least one or 2 members and thank them for making the effort.

Sounds like the internet mentality is infecting real life. (not that this is breaking news I guess)

-Dave

Back when I used to regularly attend NMRA National Conventions, the published code of conduct for the great many layout tours included an admonition to the effect of "If you can't say something good about the host's layout, just keep your mouth shut."  Most members were very good about adhering to that standard, although you might occasionally here a negative comment or two once you were back on the bus and headed back to the convention center.

I'm not sure what has happened to our society--and to some extent even our hobby--in recent years, but some folks are just plain rude, ill-mannered, and nasty.  You kind of expect it online where so many hide behind phony screen names and such, but out in the "real world" one would like to think these people would show at least some measure of decency and respect for others.

I rarely read or comment on this sort of post.  However Allan is so dead on.  I've learned to ignore & avoid a lot of folks.  Hopefully I can continue to do it. 

I agree with Allan. We seem to have lost that quality which makes us ladies and gentlemen.  To wit (I think) a few years back I overheard two ladies discussing this very thing and how rude we've all become. They mentioned things like people just pushing their way in front of you and bumping you without saying 'excuse me'. I took it to heart and for the rest of the meet, I minded my manners and you know what? It turned out to be a very enjoyable experience because whenever I said "please" or "thank you", all responded in a positive manner.

CC

Yes, Chief Clerk, but it cuts both ways.

The aisles of many of the halls get "clogged" with people standing in the middle (they are very narrow to begin with) and moving in the middle at a molasses pace. I mean, why move to the table to look at something when you can block the aisle? That makes it difficult to move past tables you are not interested in seeing, and you can spend far too much time in some of those places.

I feel for the people with wheelchairs and canes, but many of the others just have their own level of "it's all about me and I don't care if someone wants to get through".

I'm not terribly interested in pre or post war items, but I would like to go through all the halls when I'm at York. More and more I find myself not going to the black, red or white halls because of aisle width and blockage. I "force" myself to do the blue and silver halls, and invariably end up with a certain level of frustration at the blockage.

So please understand that rudeness cuts both ways.

Gerry

Good morning

What I didn't understand is why they had to operate the same hours as the trading halls. I hoped they would at least be open a couple of hours before trading halls. If I was a buyer, I went fill my shopping list first, sometimes that took all day looking. If I was a seller I have to stay at my table. TCA should think of the modular groups as advertising, get the people fired up about trains. The black hall could close early or shut down a couple of hours so the group could shop or rest.

Clem K 

Although the suggestion in your final sentence is a good one, Clem, I think the real problem is that the displaying group already has to operate under too many restrictions in terms of setup times, tear-down time, and the like, not to mention the expenses involved.  Add to that the restriction against photos (by members attending the meet) and it kind of makes for a less-than-satisfactory overall experience.

Since I participated in two Black Hall modular layouts (one with Liberty Hi-Railers and one with Flower City), some comments:

Yes, it is expensive for the members, plus very hard to find enough members able to take off from work Wed.-Sat.. I HEARD that Eastern Div is now offering some $ to the club toward motels, etc. ($500.?), but with 8 or more members needed, the overall expense is great.

I don't think "shopping time" is really a big deal. If you have at least 3 members on the layout, the others can take breaks and shop over the 3 days.

I think the biggest "plus" for the group is that at York you get a lot of interesting questions about the scenics and trains (compared to a "public" show). People REALLY seem to appreciate what you have created. On the other hand, don't assume you will get better behavior. We had one guy using a staion parking lot as a writing desk, and a woman picking up 1:43 cars "for a better look".

We always seemed to have a nice crowd...in fact, I was surprised to see so many at the start of the day.

I think the current "problem" is that most of the "nearby" modular groups have already "done" York, and are in no big rush to come back...even with the rule change allowing the modular group to take photos during the off-time. BTW, I am personally NOT in favor of allowing photos of the layout by visiters. Leaning over for "artistic close-ups" will lead to disaster, IMO.

Fully understand the logistical issue and cost associated with this. From my experiences I have always been conversational and appreciative of the club efforts, as well it has always provided a nice break from cruising the aisles to relax and watch someone practice the hobby on a grand scale

I, too, have very much seeing those displays and studying the various methods and approaches used in the modeling.  Over my long years in the hobby, I have most enjoyed having the opportunity to visit a great many home and club layouts in all parts of the country, and I can honestly say I learned something from each one I visited.

The could always put more dealers tables in the Black hall. 

I'm all for sending offenders to a courtesy class so people can learn how to walk around a show.

Our modular group, Stillmeadow Crossing, will be displaying in White hall in April.  We displayed for the first time last October, and it was a blast!  Members had nothing but praise for our efforts.  Many had modeling questions, "How'd you do that?"  Others shared stories of their own layouts or childhood toy train memories.  

We are looking forward to displaying our expanded layout and meeting more fellow modelers. 

We have about a dozen active members which has worked out fine for coverage.  Usually 3-4 guys run the layout while others are out shopping. We do have one big advantage:  we are all from York so we don't have the logistics issues and expense that most groups have.

If you are in York, stop by and say "Hi."  

Or visit on the web http://smcrossing.blogspot.com/

Bob

I'd rather see more collector tables in the black hall.

They have been putting layouts in the white hall because they can't fill it with sellers tables so I doubt there will be tables in the black hall anymore. 

Glad to hear this Bob - Thanks!

This will be our first April York and we look forward to seeing you guys and your layout.

Q - Why the White Hall and not the customary Black Hall?

Sam,

they have been putting smaller layouts in the white hall for the past couple of years. I guess the reason is what I posted above. I hope they don't leave the black hall empty if nobody is setting up. Spreading out some of the dealers would help crowding.

I really will miss seeing a layout at York.  I have always found the layouts very interesting and the gorup's members extermely engaging and helpful.  One year there was a particular building that I thought was great and asked one of the member's about it.  Not only did he help me with the specifics of how it was built, he offered to take photos of,it after the show and email to me.  I did get the photos and it helped me build something similar.   On another occasion I had some electrical questions and I ended  talking to 3 of the members each of how provided great insight into the how to.  They could not have been more helpful.

I think these groups deserve tremendous credit for putting up their layouts at York.  Expense aside for the moment, I can't imagine the work involved is loading, transporting and then putting up and taking down.  And as Allan said, there are always those kind of people who could find fault with Santa Claus. 

I for one, look forward to the layouts at York and really,hope they will continue to be there.  York without a layout,is certainly less of an experience for me.

Thanks,

Ed

The Black hall is actually part of the restaurant next door. They determine if the hall is available or not. One year we had to be packed up and out by 5 PM Saturday because there was a wedding reception held there. I asume the Eastern Division has to make special arrangements to use the Black Hall. Given tables are now going unfilled in the other halls I doubt there is motivation to open the Black Hall for sellers.

Pete

Open the Green Hall

You must be thinking of the Tree Huggers Convention.

What I think would be fun would be to rotate big manufactures thru the black hall and then put a big club layout in the smack center of the orange hall. Encourage manufacturer to go over the top when its their turn in the black hall and being a club as the centerpiece in the center of it all.

I like the idea of a club in the white hall too since its so blaah.

The Green Hall was used to hold the Auctions. It was to the side of the Blue Hall, long before the Silver Hall was built. ROW used it once to show their new layout (before it was landscaped). This would have been the early 90's.

Glad someone remembers the green hall

Often called "The Green Barn" over the PA announcements!

I remember it in use, but the times I was there it was a regular selling area before Orange opened (don't think it was ever open after that, but I may be mistaken)

I seem to recall it seemed to mostly be dealers and at at least one meet there was a display of an interesting hand made train that I think was made from various types of tin cans.  This was pushed down the track with a small handle so the operator could stand up.  Probably was somewhere a bit bigger than G scale size, but it's been a while, so my memory is a little fuzzy.

I had no idea the Silver was so new (I guess that makes me sound old thinking something that's been around for 20 years is "new"! ) as Art mentions.

-Dave

Ditto!  That's how I remember it--for a short period of time--as well.  The dealers relegated to that hall were not at all happy about it, and I believe it was only a dealer hall on a few occasions.  Out of the normal flow of traffic (attendees) and a rather uncomfortable setting.

Who cares about the Black Hole.

I am sorry to hear about people voicing negative statements at the folks putting on the Display layouts.  As we all know there are just some people missing fundamental courtesies and such.

I guess I was lucky to not see or,hear any on my five visits to York and the layouts.  Without exception, I found all the layouts terrific and interesting. But more importantly, I found the folks manning the layouts to be extremely friendly and helpful.  I remember the one year that I was trying to get DCS running and getting very frustrated.   I asked one of the members of the club a couple questions about DCS implementation.  The next thing Ii knew, there were 4 of their members talking to me about the issues I was having. After an hour I left with a couple pages of notes and 2names and telephone numbers of members with instructions to call them with any questions I still had.    Not only did I get a cram course in DCS, I could see the modular members were really enjoying sharing their knowledge.

I ran into another modular member a couple years ago.  I asked about a station building that as  it tuned out, he designed and built.  I believe he had just the best time telling me how he built it and the things he liked and didn't like about it. I thought the structure was fabulous and I know he really enjoyed the compliments and the how-to questions.

I would be sad that if for some reason, the modular layout groups stop coming to York. 

You get to see some great layouts, learn a lot of new things, and meet some really fine people.  It can't get any better than that.

Thanks,

Ed