BTO orders of Halloween F19 canceled? Whats the point?

I watched that particular stream and can say his normal process is to take preorders than adds extras for his inventory.  He leaves the preorder option online as available in hopes he sells his extras. He doesn’t close orders when it exceeds his submitted preorders.  The expectation is he will find extras to meet his extra post deadline preorders from the distributor or other dealers.  Sometimes he can’t find those extras and starts canceling those post preorders from most recent back.

I haven’t heard of anyone not getting their order if they ordered before the deadline.

The entire purpose of BTO is the ensure that the manufacturer, in this case Lionel, has enough orders to at least cover their costs to produce the item.  This system protects the manufacturer and the reseller from having to sell an item at a loss.  It is a fair system as the only risk involved is disappointment on the buyer side if there are not enough orders to move the project into production.

We will see this model only increase as the O scale marketplace continues to be a difficult one to understand what sells and what does not.  BTO is completely a market-based approach.  If the market wants this item produced, then it will generate enough orders to make that happen.  If it does not, no one on the seller or buyer side is out funds.  I don't see this as bad customer service at all as we want our manufacturers and retailers to be successful for the BTO orders that do receive enough "votes" to move the item into production.

@jstraw124 posted:

I watched that particular stream and can say his normal process is to take preorders than adds extras for his inventory.  He leaves the preorder option online as available in hopes he sells his extras. He doesn’t close orders when it exceeds his submitted preorders.  The expectation is he will find extras to meet his extra post deadline preorders from the distributor or other dealers.  Sometimes he can’t find those extras and starts canceling those post preorders from most recent back.

I haven’t heard of anyone not getting their order if they ordered before the deadline.

IMO, it's misleading to take a pre-order and not fulfill it if the item is actually made.  A post-deadline pre-order should be noted as non-guaranteed - perhaps it should be called a "provisional order".   

I know it's a tough business, but as @Sunrise Special noted, we customers are expected to hold up our end of the deal.  It needs to work both ways.  Canceling an order without an explanation is unacceptable.

This is why I never pre-order with a dealer that requires a deposit.

I would never make a deposit on a BTO item either as there is never a guarantee that it will be built.  For me, asking for a deposit on a BTO item is sign of how reputable that dealer is and if I will be interesting in doing further business with them.

@jstraw124 posted:

I watched that particular stream and can say his normal process is to take preorders than adds extras for his inventory.  He leaves the preorder option online as available in hopes he sells his extras. He doesn’t close orders when it exceeds his submitted preorders.  The expectation is he will find extras to meet his extra post deadline preorders from the distributor or other dealers.  Sometimes he can’t find those extras and starts canceling those post preorders from most recent back.

I haven’t heard of anyone not getting their order if they ordered before the deadline.

Not a good way to do business. The customer bears the risk. If a customer knew that their order wasn’t a definite yes…they would look elsewhere. Perhaps making the customer know this strategy prior to them place the order would be a good thing to do. Should the customer place 10 bto orders across multiple retailers to make sure they get the item and cancel all the rest? Being responsible goes both ways. Hopefully he hets his engine.

You have to be very careful giving advice like placing 10 orders and only making 1 purchase, leaving 9 dealers holding the bag; after a few such episodes, the order placer will be "banned" from placing orders by the nine dealer "victims."  You never know how long your favorite dealer will remain in business, so being banned by a lot of other dealers will leave you out in the cold.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

You have to be very careful giving advice like placing 10 orders and only making 1 purchase, leaving 9 dealers holding the bag; after a few such episodes, the order placer will be "banned" from placing orders by the nine dealer "victims."  You never know how long your favorite dealer will remain in business, so being banned by a lot of other dealers will leave you out in the cold.

Chuck

I would never do that…just trying to make the point that the dealer has just as much responsibility or professional courtesy as is expected of the customer.  Your post highlights that…

So is the title of this thread misleading?

I get the impression that those who ordered before the deadline are covered and those who ordered afterwards may not get one because the dealer was banking on cancellations or the ability to procure them elsewhere.  Am I correct or did I miss something?  Did the dealer only get 50% of his deadline order or just 50% of what he sold as pre-orders after the BTO deadline?

@MartyE posted:

So is the title of this thread misleading?

I get the impression that those who ordered before the deadline are covered and those who ordered afterwards may not get one because the dealer was banking on cancellations or the ability to procure them elsewhere.  Am I correct or did I miss something?  Did the dealer only get 50% of his deadline order or just 50% of what he sold as pre-orders after the BTO deadline?

There was no mention of when the order was placed…customer says his order was canceled…dealer says that he only got half of the order.  

@Sunrise Special posted:

There was no mention of when the order was placed…customer says his order was canceled…dealer says that he only got half of the order.  

Thanks.  It's hard to tell what the actual situation is when other chimed in with additional information.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I would never make a deposit on a BTO item either as there is never a guarantee that it will be built.  For me, asking for a deposit on a BTO item is sign of how reputable that dealer is and if I will be interesting in doing further business with them.

I have done two preorders through Nassau Trains who require a 10% deposit and never had an issue. As long as the deposit is deducted from the selling price and that is whats due when the item comes in what’s the difference? If the item is not produced I am sure any dealer asking for a deposit would issue a refund of said deposit.

If the half-fulfilled order was the fault of Lionel than they very well may make it up as they did with a similar situation in 2014 when Charles Ro was shorted the scale 10th anniversary Polar Express Berkshire. Later that year Lionel made another batch of the engines.