Burlington F3's are on the way, what would the correct passenger cars be?

The California zephre cars from AtlasO, 21" though. 

David - Thank You, I found pics on the net. What does "PRR" on the side stand for?

 

Pennsy?

 

The Rapids was the one car owned by the Pennsy. For a time, it permitted through service from San Francisco to New York.

Recently, I believe I saw a chrome Burlington 15" passenger set of four cars (slightly used) at Grzyboski's for a little less than $300.

I was just in there today!! Argh!!!

 

Lionel has a Ca Zephyr set ready to deliver from 2011 or 2012 catalog.The CB&Q,DRGW and WP each pulled the Zephyr.The Observation Car in this set is wrong,no Dome.Hope this helps. Mikey

I have the Atlas O New cars coming as well as two other from prior years. If you don't have at least 072 curves I think they look poorly. My opinion.  I have 072 and even with that and the adjustable drawbars they look a little out of of place. I ordered the Lionel cars also. What can I say I like the CZ.  I put the two Atlas o cars behind the ABBA and it looks beautiful until it turns,. I am positive the 18" cars will look beautiful.

I had the four car set with the vista domes new! Like I said, had...

Might as well put them into freight service, just as the Burlington did. As part of the CZ joint operation between the CB&Q, D&RGW, and WP each railroad ordered F3 sets from EMD ASSUMING that each railroad's "F" unit motive power sets would operate all the way through to either Chicago or Oakland. It didn't take the Burlington long to realize that their F3 sets were removed upon arrival at Denver. Since the Burlington had NO mountain grades to contend with, those 9900 series F3 sets got transferred to freight service, with the steam generators removed, and from then on the Burlington handled the CZ with nothing but "E" type units.

Any reason why the power did not run through?  No D/B on Q units?

 

Were they ever used on the Q's FAST MAIL?

You're correct in that the CB&Q F3's lacked dynamic braking.  D&RGW and WP both bought early F3 units with dynamic braking.  Burlington was able to maintain the schedule with 4000 to 4500 horsepower (2 E7's or 3 F3's, none of which had dynamic braking).  Western Pacific likewise used 4500 horsepower as it crossed the Sierra Nevada range on a maximum grade of about 1 %.  D&RGW required 6000 horsepower, and this was originally 3-unit Alco-GE PA1-PB1-PA1 consists, and later A-B-B-A F3's and F7's -- all equipped with dynamic braking.

 

With 3 Burlington F3's, the Zephyr would have crossed the Rockies at freight train speed and would have come down into Denver looking like a rolling forest fire due to all the brake shoe smoke. 

Whew, thank heavens my carpet is relatively flat so these F3's will have no issues whatsoever!! 

 

We're on a weird road right now talking toy train and real trains, but in my world F3's will NEVER pull freight!!

 

Thanks Guys!!

I'm waiting for the new Lionel CZ passenger car sets to go with my beautiful Burlington F3 ABA set.   One great advantage that these cars will bring to me is that they are able to navigate O-36 curves.

 

Below is a picture of F3's pulling a full CZ train. Enjoy!

 

To add to the mix, K-Line did a set of 18" & 21" CZ cars. They are very difficult to find, but are absolutely beautiful.

 

I would probably in today's market go with Nicole suggestion for the Lionel CZ cars.

And that's all that really counts!!!  We can run our trains and mix-and-match things to our hearts content -- regardless of what any one roadname may have done in real life.

 

Enjoy!!!  Those Burlington F3's will look magnificent pulling a string of CZ cars!  

 

David

K-line made 15-inch as welll (no sleepers though).

 

The microscopic illustrations of the upcoming Lionel CZ cars would give me pause - cars without domes?? I hope people won't be disappointed.

What is the part # for these yet to be released Lionel California Zephyr cars?

To me that's odd. SCL only ran their passenger service with E units when I road to and from Jacksonville, FL and Raleigh, NC in the mid to late '60's. I suppose because they never/ or rarely bought the F's with steam generators.  

 

So, when I think of F units I think of freight service. But I understand that AT&SF used F's for passenger service, I don't know about other railroads.

How about a set of Williams 60' Burlington streamliners?

Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Spokane Portland & Seattle, Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, Rio Grande, Monon, Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, to name a few off the top of my head.

 

Rusty

I have a small collection of Life Magazine Great Northern ads for the Empire Builder from 50's. Those are all F's!

 

Way off topic: My most vivid memory riding the Silver Star was on a return trip to Jacksonville, I was on the back of the last car with the conductor, at the break of dawn, at about the Florida-Georgia state line. It looked like we were really going fast. I asked the conductor how fast he thought we were going. He said a 100 mph or so.

 

I know those E4's were capable of excess of 100 mph when geared for high speed. Usually there were three all in elephant style when we left Raleigh.

There are three SKU's for the 18" CZ cars:

 

6-25722:  4-pk D&RGW

6-25727:  2-pk Western Pacific

6-25731:  2-pk CB&Q

 

Shipping ETA for these is now showing March 2014, which more than likely means in consumers hands sometime during 2Q2014.  It's been a long wait for these, and unfortunately the observation car catalog pictures to date do not show a domed observation.  And nobody at Lionel has gone on record to say how it will actually be produced.  To date the formal answer has been, "We don't know until we get a sample from the factory."   Really???  Talk about the tail wagging the dog... 

 

David

Good information, Rusty.  Maybe some folks will note that virtually all those western railroads that resorted to "F" type units for their passenger service, had pretty severe mountain grades. The EMD "E" type units did NOT work well on the steep, slow speeds, encountered in the western mountains.

Some on the SP thought the E7's could not pull the skin off a grape, according to an article in the SPH&TS magazine.

It comes down to whether you are 100%, absolutely, positively, must be, or whatever to have to be prototypical with your layout. Or, probably like most of us, who really don't care whether it is prototypical or not to use F units or E units to pull your CZ train. Personally, I love the look of the F units and pull my CZ with them.

 

Jeff, enjoy your new Burlington F units and I know it will be a Merry Christmas for you with these beauties under your Christmas Tree.

Jeff,

Run what you like, after all that Chicago team winning is a fantasy as well.

You are lucky the girls still love you so much.

(Will they finally trim those outfield weeds this year?)

 

 

My wife is from Iowa and I gave her as an engagement gift, a set of MPC Burlington F3A AA engines and the matching B as well, a set of matching CB&Q coaches (9578, 9576, 9577, 9580, 9588, 9579) and as a wedding gift, the 16 inch D&RG California Zephyr Cars from 1993 (6-19122,23,24,25,26,27).  Makes for a fun mixed consist.     

Easy there big fella!!! 

 

I'll gladly have this debate over a few cold ones!!