CA glue...what am I doing wrong?

not sure which glue you are using but i have found that a little goes a long way and it seems to work best when i use a fair amount of pressure on the two pieces i am joining. hold them together hard for a ten count and they are good to go.

Mike,

What you need is an accelerator. If you use Zap-Gap, you can also buy a spray accelerator that will make the CA harden instantly. I have no patience to wait for the glue to set up so I use it all the time.

Plastruct makes a CA glue. I buy code no CYA-3. That is extra thick. They also have an accelerator you can buy with it.

Gluing wood to wood may not work real well with CA glue to begin with.

 

Alan Graziano

For gluing wood to wood i use either yellow carpenter's glue or for small parts i use good old Walther's Goo. When i need to use CA i like the Loctite brand stuff the has an applicator brush in the bottle.

jackson

I am using what the guy at the LHS suggested. The bottle says Insta-cure Pocket CA Super Thin 1-3 sec. glue. Should I be using a thicker CA glue ( I didn't know it came in different thicknesses) or something else entirely? This stuff is almost like water, when I place a drop it runs all over the place. I am using different sizes of strip wood for posts, stringers, and decking so it is all wood to wood. 

Yes, that is certainly part of your problem.  There are many different kinds of CA and you need the right one for the right situation.  Thin CAs are for very tight fits that don't need filling.  Wood doesn't count.  If you want to use CA for wood, you need a much thicker formulation.   Gorilla Glue brand CA is a good choice.   As Alan says, accelerant helps a lot, too.  

 

Note, too, that CAs also vary greatly in quality.  Some of it just doesn't work.  The stuff you can buy at the dollar store can lead to suicide.

 

Super thin CA is definitely NOT the stuff to use with wood.  It is so thin that the wood absorbs some of it, wicking it everywhere.  That is your problem.  If you must use CA for wood, get a thick "gap filling" type or even the gel that comes in little tubes. 

 

I use yellow carpenter's glue for my wood construction.  It dries well enough to handle in 15-30 minutes.  I don't really use the thin CA for anything.  It's too difficult to control for me.  I have a couple of different thicknesses of gap filling CA that I use for all of my plastic construction.  I dip a toothpick in the accelerator and use that to deliver accelerator to the joint.  Spraying is overly messy in my opinion.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I have to go to Lowe's this weekend anyway so I will pick up some Elmer's yellow glue. Next time I will come straight here and skip asking the hobby shop guy. They are mainly an RC place anyway, but they do have a fairly decent assortment of scratchbuilding and scenery supplies. Many thanks to all, Mike

I think what "you are doing wrong" is using CA glue in the first place. There's no reason to use CA (particular the thin stuff) with wood. I always use Aileen's Tacky Glue. Holds well, doesn't dry out, gives you time to work with it and because it's "tacky" within about 30 seconds forms a slight bond that will hold pieces together well before it cures. Also, any good wood glue works well. The good thing about Aileen's is that it dries clear. It can be cleaned up with water. All in all, using a glue like this or another wood glue will make building a loading dock a cinch and fun, which is what it should be. 

 

If you insist on using CA, although I don't know why you would other than for resin, some plastics, and sometimes for bonding different types of materials together, etc., use the medium thickness then use an accelerator as Alan suggested, when you have the pieces in place. The accelerator prevents your having to hold the pieces in place which will invariably move. But, as we all know, and you have found out pretty quickly, CA will bond just about anything, most often your fingers. For that reason, I never use the thin runny stuff (which is basically Super Glue) as there's very little control over it. Isn't worth the hassle. 

 

Jerrman

Take Alan's and jerrman advice. I can't use Ca or super glue because of allergies, if I get one whiff of super glue I will get severe flu like symptoms for about 3 days. 

 

Because of that I also use Aileen's tacky glue, works great for me. 

That's what I think as well!  I just wouldn't use CA for gluing wood components.

You can use CA for wood BUT you need to use the Gel type and then an accelerant to freeze the stuff.  Gorilla flex gel and Loctite gel work well.  Traditional wood glue works but takes time to set.  CA gel plus accelerant allows you time to position and then you "freeze" the pieces with the accelerant.  You can use freezer paper under parts to keep from gluing the model to the surface you are working on (been there done that).  I've used th CA stuff on mixed media models with good luck.  You can glue wood/metal/plastic/cardstock without having to switch adhesives.

 

BTW, I use CA, wood, epoxy, "duco", dichlormethane, ...  Whatever works for the job at hand.  While I have favorite "brands" I don't have a favorite glue.

I concur with the Aileen's Tacky. I also use the Aileen's Fast Grab. They should cover you for your building except for plastics. It only adds a small amount of time to the construction for the set so you can go to the next piece.

 

Thanks for Gel type info Chuck. Sounds like good stuff once my assembly skills improve.

Here is a recent thread Secrets of stair construction that has some expert discussion of adhesives.  

Keep in mind that there is an assortment of CA (Cyano-acrylates).  All with a purpose. (Thin to Thick). (Fast set to slow set, etc.) Please read all the associated instructions and warnings (MSDS, Material Safety Data Sheets are available)   Less expensive white glue (Elmers), or more agressive construction wood glue also has a purpose, each with positives and problems. 

Adhesives and paints are a large part of the hobby, IMO, It takes some time and practice to figure the them out.

I routinely use CA for building wood structures, rolling stock, etc.  There is no reason why it can not be used and there are only a few limitations to using it.  Learning those will save you a great deal of frustration and colorful language will be minimized in the end. 

 

The thin CA is generally not useful; use the medium viscosity stuff at minimum.  Also, do not apply excess amounts to the surfaces to be joined - that won't set reasonably fast and will only make a good mess (on the fingers and within the 3' radius).  More is not better.

 

You did not relate what types of joints you are making with the wood - CA is virtually useless and without any strength if there is an end grain surface involved.  Tricks for joining such surfaces include a thin film of Goo on the end grain and CA on the other surface.

 

Do consider making use of small spring clamps to hold things together a little while - I have 2 dozen ofthem that I find useful and at times necessary even when using CA. I have a bag of clothespins in the shop as well.  Weights are also useful

 

I have used CA gel forms and while effective, I've found it to generally end up being wasteful and unnecessary.

 

Carpenter's glue is also what I will use in very sparing amounts as exccess amounts can again make a good mess, but can also warp wood components. 

a tip that I learned about using CA, which I think is true, at least I've found it so in my usages, is this: CA does not stick to CA.

 

What does that mean?

 

If you have a piece of material that has dried CA on it and attempt a second attempt using CA and that same piece, the new CA won't adhere to the old CA.  I interpret this as meaning this: you only get one shot at bonding using CA.

 

- walt

Hello Mike,

 

The problems you are describing sound like they have to do with the viscosity of the CA glue you are using.  You said you are using a thin type with a viscosity of 1-3cps.  Thin CA glue is great for stabilizing cracks and fissures in wood or hardening soft or punky wood.  However, it's only good for bonding non-porous surfaces with an interference fit.  If the pieces are porous, they absorb the glue and get very hard but do not bond to each other effectively.  Also, if the pieces don't fit perfectly, thin CA glue will not be able to bridge the gap, so you won't get a decent bond.

 

In your case, you would probably be better off with a medium CA glue instead.  Because it is thicker, it will fill small gaps between the pieces, and it won't soak into the wood.  Using a medium CA glue will give you strong bonds very quickly.  You could use a thick blend as well, but if your pieces fit tightly, a thick glue will create extra space in between them, and it will look sloppy.  Thick CA glue and gel versions are great, but their purpose is to fill in large gaps.

 

If you want the glue to cure especially fast, you can use some accelerator as well.  Spray the accelerator on one piece, apply the glue to the other, and then put them together.  However, if you need a little time to position the pieces, use the accelerator very sparingly or not at all.

 

Also, you mentioned that you are getting the thin CA all over your hands, which is very easy to do.  You can use gloves to keep the CA glue off your hands.  Don't use cotton- the glue will react to cotton and other fibers and get extremely hot (so roll up your sleeves!)  Stick to nitrile or polyethylene.  Nitrile are great, but the glue would stick to them and bond them to the wood, so in your case I'd say try polyethylene (food service type gloves) because they won't get bonded.  You can also use one of those creams that protects your hands from dirt, grime, paint, etc.  If you use enough of the cream, the glue just sticks to it and you can peel it off your hand pretty easily when you are all done.

 

You don't need to give up on CA glue- just get the right thickness for the job, and you'll be fine.

Or, since fingers are rather large fumbly things, get a small collection of tweezers,

That's a better idea- just keep your hands away from the glue if possible.  You can also use a plastic pipette to dispense the glue more accurately.  Cyanoacrylates in general tend to clog up the spout of the bottle eventually, so you end up cutting it down, which leaves a bigger hole and makes a big mess when you are using a thin blend.  You can also use a brush.

Or drip a blob onto a piece of paper, dip a toothpick into it and apply with that.

Satellite City didn't toot his own horn, so I'll do it for him.

 

I don't use CA glue very often, and I haven't bought any recently as I haven't built anything in a while. I'm also very sensitive to the fumes from CA glues.

 

When I do want to get CA glue, there is only 1 CA glue I use:

 

UFO (User Friendly Odorless) CA glue from Satellite City. I've been very happy with the product using it over the years.

 

UFO CA Glue

 

I used to fly large RC planes back in the 1980s and remember an ad (from Satalite City perhaps?) showing a large built-up airframe saying "Totally Built with (brand) CA Glue" which was a first at the time. Previously builders used many kinds of cement for airframe construction but most were leery of the 'new' CAs  that were just coming out. 

Speed in building and a significant reduction in weight were the advantages.

Gradually, we built almost all of our frames with CA too, but it was definitely a learning curve and involved 'trust'!

Or you can use disposable fine tips to control the flow and the amount applied to where you really want it applied,

 

Anyone have a good tip on CA storage? My stuff drys out pretty fast and hardens in the container.

 

Just keep it sealed and in a dry place.  My shop is apparently adequately dry that I never bother to seal a bottle and have never had one go to waste either

 

I know everyone will tell you to store it in the frige, but that will only condense moisture into it and actually accelerate its aging and deterioration.  And, every time you take it out, more condensate with acts as a catalyst to harden CA.

 

Your best bet is to use a desiccator with desiccant and keep it on there sealed tightly.  I have one bottle left over open from the 2012 O Scale Nat'l stored thusly w/o any problems.

What I do is put the cap on good, then put the bottle inside a glass jar and seal the lid on. It will last much longer without drying out. It will even fog up the inside of the jar like it will if you use it to attach plastic glass. Proof that the glue gasses off, even with the top on it.

Rob

What kind of CA are you guys using that you go through all that trouble over?

The kind that I have to pay for - Can't you hear the little birds going Cheep!  Cheep!  Cheep! 

I use Loctite CA glue, and I've had the same bottle for months, and it's as good as when I bought it.  I take care to wipe the tip with a rag after I'm finished and make sure all the glue is out of the tip as well.  I put the top on and it's ready for the next time I need it.  I have used the gel for wood with good results, but I tend to use Duco cement for wood most of the time.

John,

Put it in the refrigerator. It seams to work very well. I have a small refrigerator in my model room and have stored the Loctite Industrial Ca in there for a couple of years.

 

Alan Graziano

Is it air or moisture that causes the curing. I assumed it was air (evaporation) 

Air is what causes the curing.  I don't have any issues with CA lasting unless I don't clean the tip of the dispenser.  I also agree that the cheap brands are, well, cheap.  After I started using Loctite brand, I got much better performance from it.

Is this true? CA will not stick/hold cure over old dried up CA?

Cyanoacrylate cures because of moisture- either in the substrates being bonded or in the air.  That's why you have more need of an accelerator when you are working in an environment with very low humidity.  That's also why people in very humid areas have much more trouble with tips clogging than those of us in drier areas.  I live in southern California, and my tips don't clog easily no matter what I do.  

 

Here's a tip that is counter-intuitive but effective:  When you are done using a bottle, turn it upside down and squeeze until the glue is about to come out the tip.  Then put the cap back on and store the bottle upside down.  The tip only clogs when there is a little bit of glue surrounded by air (with moisture). If the spout stays full of glue, it can't get clogged.  

 

Another way to deal with this is to just keep a couple of extra spouts on hand.  If one is clogged, put on a new one and drop the clogged spout into a little container of acetone for awhile to clean out the hardened CA glue.  No need to cut the spout down, and you can just keep rotating them out like that.  You can also just take the spout off and rinse it with acetone when you are finished with the bottle- just make sure the spout is dry before you put it back on the bottle.

Exactly so.

 

Storing in a desiccator such as this works well.

 

 

The bottle in there was opened last year at the O Scale Nat'l and stored over desiccant in that contained ever since w/o it going bad.  The desiccant is blue and turns to purple when it's spent.  The 2nd bottle that was opened that same day is still on my bench being used w/o ever being sealed up.

 

The tips that I use are disposable made from micro pipette tips.  They rarely clog, have as small as a 1/10 mm ID and provide considerable application control which also limits moisture access.

 

 

 

 

I heard that exposure to light affects shelf life. I keep my ACC in a opaque container, FWIW. However, the good (=expensive) stuff doesn't seem to be sensitive)

 

 

Cheap (relatively speaking), it last me a long time. I use it until I've squeezed the last drop out of the tube. It lays on my work bench among the other clutter, in the open air and humidity. I do take pains to try to remember to put the cap back on it.

 

I had not considered that photo-initiated free radical polymerization would be a significant contributor to degradation unless out in natural sunlight.

OK-

where do you but desiccant in bulk. This storage method looks best.

where do you buy micro-pipette tips?