Cell Phones/Cameras

I simply don't have the energy or desire to re-hash this again because it has been discussed MANY times on this forum--twice a year, at least, for as far back as I can remember.  I'm not sure how your searched, or what a search would or would not turn up, but I'm not going to spend the time or effort to find out.

Suffice it to say that the Eastern Div. leadership and members created these rules for THEIR meet (and for whatever reason), and we attendees can either abide by them fully or elect not to attend.  Pretty simple.

I will leave it up to someone else to respond to your inquiry in more depth if they care to.

Allan-

I looked at every topic in the York TCA Meet Forum, all ~140 of them.  As I said in my original post, I found some discussion of the issue, but didn't feel the "why" was addressed.  I generally am curious why?  Is there a problem with that?

If you "simply don't have the time or desire" and don't want "to spend the time or effort" to answer a question, that's fine.  But there's no need to be rudely dismissive about it.

The info I did find on the topic pretty much boiled down to what you said - it's their meet and they can do what they want.  That's true, but it doesn't answer the why.  There must be some reasoning behind it.  Is it crime to want to understand?

I'm relatively new to the hobby and have been active on this board for only a number of months.  Thank you for making me feel so welcome.

As Allan has said, this topic has come up twice a year for many years now and everybody is tired of it. There is no official answer as to "why". The Eastern Division will not answer that question, which is why nobody can give you a definite answer.

My apologies to Mike if I was rude, but it truly is as Carl noted above.  The subject of cell phones and/or cameras (regardless of how you searched or what keywords might work best) has been discussed to death on this forum time and time again (not to mention in my column in the magazine).

You will need to contact the president or another top officer of the Eastern Division of the TCA if you want a full and accurate response, but please don't hold your breath waiting for it.  Nobody here--and I do mean nobody--can provide a full and accurate response to your question.

Thank you Allan.  I appreciate the follow up.

The TCA meet forum isn't all that old.
If you'd like to better understand the possible reasons behind any of the York train show rules, try searching the main forum.

I don't think the Eastern Division of the TCA ever posted an official explanation of their reasoning behind their rules. Were they to make such a posting, it would only result in a bunch of negative posts telling them how wrong-headed  they are. (or worse)

Anything you find will likely be an unoffical opinion of the reasons.

I suggest we all take our "portable smart devices" and do SOMETHING with them at 1PM on Thursday and Friday at York.  We don't need to make phone calls or take pictures with them. Just quietly use them in a private way to send a message to the Eastern Division honchos that this is as much OUR meet as it is THEIRS -- especially those of us who are members of the TCA's Eastern Division.  This whole concept of being guests -- while certainly polite -- is a crock.

The Eastern Division has had more than sufficient opportunity to explain their position on these matters.  We all know the rules in question are archaic and flat out embarrassing to anyone in this day and age.  Enough is enough.  

David

To get you started, here are the current officers, direct from the TCA Eastern Division website:

A logical reason regarding phones could be that if you and another buddy went in with a common list each of items you collectively are looking for, then the two of you split up, find a couple of dealers selling items on the list you both need, you call each other up and then start playing off each dealer trying to drive the price down. The dealer is then caught in a bit of a stitch up that they have little control because they can't see what the condition of the other item is etc. The only option they have is to say 'No!' and hope the person moves on without a scene being made and turns ugly.

If there are no phones then it is for every man (and woman) for themselves and you have to be decisive for the deal in front of you.

As for cameras I guess here some unscrupulous people may take pictures for a rather unpleasant clandestine venture later.

I'm sure there are other reasons that forum members will highlight for you.

Neil

In the early days at York - many dealers would use runners (boys) to rush through the halls to locate good "buys".  The cell phones became a lethal weapon in devouring the "good buys".

The camera issue is a a matter of idenitiy.  You cannot take a picture without getting many people in the print who may not want to be there.

Also, the TCA publishes a member directory. There is/was concern that unscrupulous members may scope out valuable items on various member tables (recall that the meet was mostly a buy/sell between everyday members rather than dealers), then use the member directory after the meet to track down their residences for larcenous purposes.

At least this is the most plausible reason I learned over the course of reading these threads over the past few years. Whether or not the Eastern Division, if left to their own devices, re-examines their rules from time to time to determine if they still make sense is another discussion entirely

---PCJ

C'mon David!  Why in the H-e - double hockey sticks would anyone want to waste their time with that?  Would people actually care that much to watch the clock for the 1pm 'phone event'?   

The problem with "this is as much OUR meet as it is THEIRS" is that it seems the Eastern Division membership, the people who actually volunteer to run the York Meet, are not compelled enough to change it.  "Ours" and "their's" being the same thing.  I mean if I was invited to someone's home, I'd abide by their rules and not raid the refridgerator, sleep on their couch or rearrange their furniture.  Just 'cause I'm invited doesn't mean it's MY house too.

That is what I've always heard, only it started with walkie talkies before the advent of cell phones.  So the rule was amended at some point to include cell phones.

The main point to understand is that cell phones are not banned from the York Meet, just their use inside the halls.  There are plenty of open side doors to step out to use your phone.

I just fail to see what the issue is.  In all the York Meets I've attended since cell phones proliferated in society, it was always very easy to step outside if I absolutely, positively had to make a call.  As far as the rules go, that's up to the Eastern Division membership to decide.

As for cameras, other than the layouts, there isn't much else to take pictures of.  It's just rows and rows of trains on tables.  Same as any other train show.

But, no matter what, I'm still going to have a marvelous time at the York Meet!!

The rule is bizarre, antiquated, etc. etc.  Let's get the hobby into the 21st century!  Cell phones, iPads, flatscreen jumbotrons - lets' go! And while we are at it, let's open up Saturday to the public and make mucho $ for dealers and attract the next generation.

York is great, but could be better.  Time to do so!

Please not again.

Yes...AGAIN, Eddie.

Do you suppose there might be a good reason WHY this subject comes up again and again? It is because in the context of today's world the rule is TOTALLY OUT OF STEP WITH REALITY. It seems as though leadership of the Eastern Division of the TCA wants to bury their collective heads in the sand and pretend it is still 1950.

Now THERE'S a great way to promote the hobby.  

I'm certainly hoping to as well, the Good Lord willing!  

And I trust that everyone who attends will report a thoroughly enjoyable experience, as has most often been the case in the past.  You'll not find another train meet quite like it--rules or no rules--anywhere in the entire world.  And that's something I can guarantee!

David you're a revolutionary!

I wasn't planning to go this spring but now...

I have contacted the meet organizers about Ipad use as a note pad or to make electronic payments and I'm still waiting 2 weeks now for an answer.

Jerry

You know, enough complaining, and you might be able to get things to change. I mean, look at the two signature rule.

I can't answer that one, but you do what you feel you need to do, so long as you don't mind this possibly being your last York Meet.

I, for one, will NOT be joining you even though I have actively campaigned against these outmoded rules and will continue to do so.  Keep the heat on and eventually someone (or group of someones) will see the light and enter the new century.  But I'm not going to advocate or support anything that is disruptive to the event itself.  My fellow hobbyists deserve better.

Just for the record:  I was opposed to dropping the two-signature rule, which is now gone. I'm still opposed to it, but the majority (of voting members) ruled and I'm willing to live with the results.

Gosh, I'm afraid if York allowed pictures this web site would CRASH big time

Larry

Just as a FYI several years back someone posted pictures taken in the black hall of the club layout. If memory serves me correctly the picture taker and club were not allowed in the meet for a time. So if you are going to post your pictures it better be anonymous. . 

Might I suggest: instead of breaking the rules at York, why not go to the meetings and ask for a reason? For those of you who are not ED Members, go to the Blue Hall and ask there, AND WAIT FOR AN ANSWER. A little passive-resistance works better than an outright flaunting of the rules.

For my own part, I'm just as happy NOT having to step around all those of you who are permanently on-line 24/7/365.

Now can we drop this crap for another 6 months?

Ah Yes.  The 1950s.  Too bad we don't have Dwight Eisenhower and avacado color refrigerators around too.

Everything would be so good again.

Jeff Metz, You take out your cell phone in the aisle at 1pm and use it, & I hope the ED kicks you out. Your setting a fine example for your kids.

Cameras are banned to keep photos of the 2,000 or so guys, that told their wives they were away on a business trip, off of the internet.

Cell phones are not banned, but you need to step outside of one of the many doors to use one.

If you are not a TCA member, these rules should be of no importance to you. If these 2 rules are keeping you from joining, or going to York, you have my sympathy. 

If you do this in one of the halls with the narrow aisles, you'll immediately find out why it's a bad idea.

All areas (different halls, or even different aisles within the same hall) are not created equal.  Most of the areas (except for much of Orange/Purple/Brown) are far narrower than what you would find at an average Greenberg Show.

Thus becomes the problem.  Is it OK to talk on a phone in the wide expanses of Orange (even a lot of the front aisles of orange are narrow once you get inward from the edge 3-4 aisles), but not OK in the narrow aisles of Blue/Silver/Red?  How would you propose that rule be worded or enforced?

It's much easier to just state simply that you answer and excuse yourself for a moment as you make our way to the outside.

Art said it pretty well too: 

quote:

For my own part, I'm just as happy NOT having to step around all those of you who are permanently on-line 24/7/365.

-Dave

quote:

So at 1:00 I and my family of four will take out our varied electronic devices, stop dead and block the aisle and stare at them for say 15 seconds. Am I correct.  Will I be the only one committing this dastardly act or will there be others. My kids are more excited about doing this than browsing the show....ahhhhh, they would have loved the 60's. Lol. 

Here's a better idea for you and David:

Show your displeasure by staying home.

You know I have talked till I have been blue in the face about changes that are needed to the York train meet.  But like Allan I am tired of  trying to get the ED board to move into 2013. Talking to the ED board is like talking to mt. Rushmore, just as stone faced.

I for one will say no more or at least till the next York. I will go this time to the meet as I have for the last 58 and have more fun then I should.

Any ED or TCA official I see will get a ear full, politely of course.

There is always an ED meeting on Saturday morning of York in a meeting room off the orange hall lobby. All the ED officers are present, and members are always allowed to voice opinions from the floor.  I have yet to hear anyone complain at one of these meetings about any of the York rules that some find so oppressive. That might be a better venue to express opinions (or is it outrage ) than this forum.

Jim

THE VILLAGE IS CALLING...

That's it for me, as well...at least for this go-round.    I'm hoping to attend and have a fun-filled and somewhat relaxing time, and I hope others attend with the same expectation.  

I agree 100% that the rule is outdated and should be changed but I think it would be rude to cause a disturbance at the show or otherwise violate the rules intentionally to make a point.  One of the reasons I have posted extensively on this issue is that I am a firm believer in following the rules, but I also believe that those rules should be sensible and reasonable.  The way to change it is to discuss it like adults (as most of us have done here), not violate the rules for the heck of it.  This isn't Selma and it is not 1965.  It's a train show.  As others have observed, a big problem today is that if people don't like rules, they don't follow them.  That's a recipe for disorder and bad outcomes, irrespective of whether it is something as mundane as a train show or whether a bigger issue is at stake.  I plan on going to the show and enjoying myself. At some point, I hope to convince the powers that be that it's time to revisit this rule and others but I won't be rude or disrespectful about it, either to the organizers, the volunteers, or the folks that are there to attend.

One day, when or if phones are allowed in the halls, some people will be looking for an opportunity, or a need, to use their phones in the halls.  And they'll soon realize it wasn't such a big deal at all.  Like the novelty that wears off.

The only thing left to debate would be granule or powdered sugar on funnel cakes! 

I'm lost. I thought ED stood for Erec**** Dysfunc****.

Gerry

No, ICING! And Pumpkin flavor, too.

No question about it:  Powdered!  Yummy!