CSX Hertitage Units....ever?

Just my opinion, but I don't believe that CSX management has any interest in attracting railfans, nor the public, trackside to take any interest in their trains/locomotivers. I really don't think that anyone at CSX has much interest in their own heritage.

NOT A CHANCE absolutely no attachment to the past...

What would be the economic justification to develop and implement those schemes?  I bet it is a lot of money, just to please some toy train collectors?

 

If I was CEO of CSX, I would say heck no.  

 

OK than, what was the "economic justification" for what the Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern railroads did with heritage styling on some of their diesel units?

I'd say they're making so much money they need another tax write off

 

I know a guy that used to work for the old Seaboard Air Line in their business office and he said when his pencil gave out he had to take the nub to the supply room and show them there was nothing left to use in order to get a new one.

 

Maybe CSX thinks (erroneously) that UP and NS will waste all their profits on novelties like these paint schemes and go belly up

 

Or maybe some of the old guard is somehow still alive and running CXS the way they ran the predecessor lines.

The Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific have a steam program and heritage schemes.

 

The BNSF and CSX have no steam and have not done heritage schemes, except for the BNSF covered hoppers.

 

CSX could have heritage boxcars.

 

Andrew

 

 

Actually the BNSF does have a "steam program", in a round about way. Any time they ever needed a steam locomotive for employee appreciation trips, the contracted with outside organizations for use of locomotives such as Frisco 1522, Mil Rd 261, Santa Fe 3751, SP 4449 and even SP&S 700. Plus, BNSF still allows steam operations on their main lines to this day, and THAT is something that CSX will not even consider!

May I suggest that you ask Warren Buffet that question?

 

I did not realize that the BNSF does not invest in the steam locomotives in the same way as does the team on the Norfolk Southern.

 

Andrew

CSX slogan is about Tomorrow.

 

 

The best we can hope for are predecessor graphics on new freight cars and containers. CSX does License their predecessor roads to companies like Atlas Model RR/Atlas O and others. Someone keeps track of that.

 

Andrew

There is no way CSX will ever do it....unless there is a major change in mgmt.

Union Pacific is about to shell out millions to rebuild and operate a 4000 class 4-8-8-4. I'm happy that they don't share your opinion of heritage projects.

I would think it would take a change of management/corporate philosophy for that to happen. 

 

But never is a very long time.

 

I recall hearing many, many times that you will never see a Big Boy restored.

You're right about that, Jack.

 

The town of Manchester, GA which is a junction point where the Birmingham and Atlanta mains meet on the way to Waycross and Florida has an annual Railroad Days event and has also built a viewing platform that overlooks the Manchester yard area.

 

CSX has been asked to participate by the event sponsors but has always demurred.

 

 

Warren Buffet doesn't give a hoot (to put it politely) about heritage, history, or restoration of anything. The bottom line is ALL that matters at BNSF! Even when a steam engine does run on the BNSF, especially in CA, it's a major debate.

 

When the UP Steam Program asked BNSF about moving the 4014 through Cajon when the initial schedule planning was taking place... BNSF told them it would NOT happen before the first of the year. 2 years ago when the 844 left Colton, it had already been a major "debate" about going through Cajon on its journey home. There is a big reason the 3751 doesn't run more often than it does, besides the Amtrak and insurance issues.   

I had a conversation with Wick Moorman concerning the NS Heritage units and steam program at an NS dinner a bit over a year ago.  He told me he was very pleased with the positive response to both programs from employees, shippers, Wall Street and the general public. 

 

I'm not sure how you would quantify the value to be derived from that positive response but, he certainly thought it had all been worth the cost.

 

Curt

       
       


A major change in management could happen any time there's a board meeting.  Wall Street is full of surprises.

I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing CSX heritage units, although I would love to have a B&O one!

 

All of the major railroads spend millions of dollars in advertising.  IMHO, one of the reasons that heritage units have been done by the other railroads is to generate "buzz" about these businesses.

 

Jim

The investment company Warren Buffet has his money in brings a huge custom built Lionel layout to the yearly stock holders meeting.

 

BNSF is looking at the two F units painted Warbonnet on Glaveston Island for possible future railroad events.

 

There might be a reason for CSX not doing it.  The railroad might say "CSX", but are they still having inside issues from previous mergers?  They might want to heal those before any heritage locos?

The first step would be for them to use the name Chessie Seaboard underneath CSX.

 

Andrew

Warren Buffet has model trains and enjoys railroad history.  But he also is concerned with only spending $ on something that yields a return.  However not all returns are measured by sales...there are plenty of reason's to promote ones heritige via locomotives that still pull revenue trains. Brand image is extremely valuable and easy to lose yet tough to gain back.

Evidently the only brand image CSX is interested in, is CSX.

 

I've worked at places where their mantra for implementing change was, "Does it cost more than $0? If so, then no." Sounds like CSX is one of those places.

 

Another theory is that CSX isn't doing so well and they don't have liquid assets to invest in a heritage program, regardless of the benefit.

The discussion above on BNSF forgets that in the 200's SP 4449 was painted Black with BNSF badges for a time. Also the Names of Their Paint schemes are refered to by them as " heritage". The colors used are referring to Great Northern and there used to be the two Santa Fe inspired schemes that seem mostly gone.

Any one who goes to the Musem in Baltimore must admit that CSX does have some pride in thier heritage as well.

I guess CSX gets a lot of heat from railfans, maybe it's jusified. I know I was upset a few years ago when they would not let the Western Maryland Scenic move 734 ten miles on their railroad. Having said that, I do think that they are trying to save their present heritage. Here at Cumberland, the shops have two new buildings. A new turntable. A new large crane in the heavy repair building. A new heating system in

the heavy repair building. Constant upgrades in the yard there. The Sand Patch route is being prepared for double stacks, no small job. A new interlocking at the Keyser yard, complete with all new signaling and track and switches. I would bet that this going on all over the railroad, or at many spots. All of this, after fighting off a takeover by a hedge fund. There may not be heritage units, but at least, if they keep on investing in the railroad, CSX will survive and make money.

One wonders how much a hedge fund would have re-invested in the railroad. I would bet that the railroad runs one heck of a lot better since Mike Ward took over.

 

Ed

There ya go. CSX clearly is investing their money where they will get a return on their investment in better productivity from their people, and more efficient movement of goods from A to B.

 

The long and short of it is there really is no financial reason to have a publicized heritage program. Railfans aren't the ones booking freight on their lines.

 

If a locomotive painted up all pretty like something from the distant past is enough to sway a bean counter to do business with a particular line, that bean counter is not doing his job very well.

As a CSX heritage collector,  I'd love to see it.  However, through my own business, I've had multiple contacts with both clients of CSX and employees of CSX.  They've all expressed the same sentiment:  CSX doesn't care about us and we don't care about them.

 

It doesn't seem like the kind of organization that would do much in the way of spending money to honor the past unnecessarily.  Chessie is a phenomenal brand image, and the fact they've not chosen to integrate it somehow is disappointing.

The B&O Museum is no longer affiliated with CSX in any shape, manner or form.

 

From their website: "In 1990, the museum broke all corporate ties and became an independent nonprofit education institution. CSX deeded the buildings, real estate and collections to the newly formed Museum board and provided for a significant endowment."

I don't think any debate applies to the UP moving the 4014 or any of it's other equipment over the Cajon Pass. They would be merely exercising their trackage rights which do not require a case by case approval from BNSF.

 

The 4014 will probably not enter the BNSF before the Silverwood Connection near Summit, since it is coming from West Colton, and will probably ascend the former SP Palmdale Cutoff through the pass.

 

Maybe HotWater can chime in on this. I'm sure he knows how special moves are handled with regard to trackage rights.

 

 

Over the years, CSX has made some signficant contributions to the B&O museum collection in the form of locomotives and other equipment. Additional equipment currently on the active roster has alreay been earmarked for preservation in the museum's collection so company management is not as "unaware" of its past or the historical signficance of certain company assets as one may think.

 

Bob  

Think they send guests or anyone to sporting events like the Super Bowl, etc?

 

The key point in here is public relations, which is a much harder number to quantify.  Both Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern are in a mindset at the moment that the positive PR aspect (and corresponding stories in the local newspaper) is enough to make the cost justifiable.

 

Take the steam program for an example....you are getting NS in the news (and word-of-mouth) for something other than derailing a train or blocking a crossing.  It doesn't directly affect the bottom line of moving freight, but it makes the railroad a little less invisible to the general public.  It also tends to affect the morale of your employees, especially with the NS Employee Appreciation Specials.

 

That said, there isn't a "best way" do coordinate your PR efforts.  We should just be thankful as a community that some railroads participate in the heritage paint, steam specials, Operation Lifesaver, etc.

Kevin

My thinking.............The money that CSX spends on NASCAR could be used to paint several dozen Heritage color schemes on their engines!

 

Regards,

Swafford 

Well, if they wanted to,,,,,you're correct. But as a NASCAR official car sponsor, they are entitled to invite a VERY large quantity of customer or prospective customers to any number of NASCAR events! THAT may be a "lot more bang for the buck" in CSX managements minds.

Here are a few more CSX Heritage color schemes that I sent to CSX.

 

Regards,

Swafford

Wow, Frank. I like the second of the B&O schemes, which being a long time fan, a new unit in B&0 would be a thrill.

Having said that, however, the first ACL shceme is drop dead pretty!

As far as the Western Maryland goes, however, we JUST have to have a "Fireball"!

 

Ed

Good Day Ed,

 

Thank you for the compliments. Here are a few more CSX color schemes for review.

 

Regards,

Swafford