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63 replies

Daylight Cab Forward - NOT for purists

H Hancock52OGR Forum Member

Finally had the opportunity to set up, run and inspect this engine in detail - and also put it alongside my Lionel AC-12 from 2005, which has TMCC and Railsounds 5.

 

To begin with, I can see why the color scheme, including whitewalls, silver painted ladders and so forth might offend the sensibilities of true SP believers:

 

Daylight_Profile

 

But I love it - despite the fact that I am a newly converted rivet counter.

 

Yes, I have counted the rivets on the side of this model's tender and there are 946 of them (give or take a few).

 

More to the point, I have compared and contrasted the rivets on the Daylight's (4275's) tender and those on good old 4294's tender. The number of rivets per side is exactly equal but a shocking discrepancy has emerged: the Daylight is more accurate.

 

On close examination of 4294, including macro photography and enlargement in a photo application, it became obvious that rivet 368 is misplaced by approximately 2.25 scale inches:

 

 

TMCC_Rivet

 

Whereas on the Daylight, the corresponding rivet is perfectly and properly positioned; I have compared it carefully to contemporary photos of AC-12 tenders in freight AND passenger service to be sure:

 

 

Daylight_Rivet

 

 

All buyers of the Lionel Daylight AC-12 should take special pride in the accuracy of this model as well as its colourful beauty.

 

(P.S. Mine is all the more beautiful in that it worked right straight out of the box.)

 

P.P.S. The real reason I posted this was to mention something about the whistle smoke function, which could related to Alex M.'s previous deconstruction of a Legacy cab forward during which he found heat damage to one of the smoke unit impellers. That thread is here: https://ogrforum.com/t...-the-boiler-pictures

 

I notice that when I start up the beautiful one, there's a very distinct plume of smoke from the whistle outlet - even before the whistle is sounded. You can see it about 5-6 seconds into the video I'm attempting to post below (my first stab at this). It stops after a few seconds and afterwards the whistle functions as you'd expect.

 

I wondered if the plume is caused by the resistor/heating element on the whistle side of the smoke unit heating up rapidly without any fan running to cool it and then possibly being made to cool down by a temperature sensor in the unit. If so it might account for why there was a damaged impeller although it's difficult to see why the heat damage was only on one side. 

 

 

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Dennis LaGruaDennis LaGruaOGR Forum Member

I believe that posts like this lose sight of what we are purchasing. We are purchasing TOYS! They may look like the prototypes, but there is some inaccuracy in every Lionel, Atlas, Williams and MTH model train. Most of us also run everything on three rail track- hard to change if you want a large selection to choose from.

As I have said many times before; a layout is viewed in the context of the whole. People who view a layout see it as a panorama. If everything is reasonably close to proportion, the layout looks great.

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Dennis LaGrua:

If everything is reasonably close to proportion, the layout looks great.

 

Very true. However, that "thing" just doesn't "look great", in my opinion.

 

Also, since SP4449 has an actual SP cab forward tender as our auxiliary tender, I'm not so sure the original poster is correct about those rivets.

John KorlingJohn KorlingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I believe that posts like this lose sight of what we are purchasing. We are purchasing TOYS! They may look like the prototypes, but there is some inaccuracy in every Lionel, Atlas, Williams and MTH model train

True, but it's the degree of inaccuracy that's in question (for myself, anyway).  A single rivet that's out of line or missing out of an entire row is not quite as pronounced as a wildly inaccurate paint scheme. 

FM Former Member

Matt, just about everyone on the Forum knows that I will agree with you. This is one beautiful MODEL engine, not for the purist, but for a lot of other folks who purchased it and will love operating it.

 

I was thinking earlier today how quiet it has been on the Forum about this engine since all the dust settled after it was shipped. Nice to see that it is back.      

John KorlingJohn KorlingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Passenger Train Collector:

not for the purist  

 

Nope, it's for all those blasphemous heretics.  May the Cab Forward spirits of the past rise to haunt & torment you guys evilly for as long as you own it!

 

There's also confirmed reports that #4294 in her final display resting place is weeping silently to herself that Lionel would so crassly insult her with such a visual travesty!

 

 

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by Hancock52:

I notice that when I start up the beautiful one, there's a very distinct plume of smoke from the whistle outlet - even before the whistle is sounded. You can see it about 5-6 seconds into the video I'm attempting to post below (my first stab at this). It stops after a few seconds and afterwards the whistle functions as you'd expect.

 

I wondered if the plume is caused by the resistor/heating element on the whistle side of the smoke unit heating up rapidly without any fan running to cool it and then possibly being made to cool down by a temperature sensor in the unit. If so it might account for why there was a damaged impeller although it's difficult to see why the heat damage was only on one side. 

Actually, the heat damage isn't that hard to understand.  The whistle steam feature preheats the smoke unit without the fan running.  If the regulation of the preheat temperature isn't good, it could melt one side of the stationary fan blade.  The heater is on all the time you have the whistle smoke enabled.

 

William 1William 1OGR Forum Member
I think they goofed up the paint scheme.  They should have the silver in front, the cab side, and continued the orange stripes down and through to the tender.  As it is, the silver in the middle just doesn't do it for me.  I'm calling for a recall and a repaint of every unit shipped!  And a repair of every misplaced rivet!
John KorlingJohn KorlingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by William 1:
I think they goofed up the paint scheme.  They should have the silver in front, the cab side, and continued the orange stripes down and through to the tender.  As it is, the silver in the middle just doesn't do it for me.  I'm calling for a recall and a repaint of every unit shipped!  And a repair of every misplaced rivet!

 

 

Yeah they sure did, but any paint scheme other than how the real ones were painted would be a goof too.

 

 

John KorlingJohn KorlingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by bob2:

Aesthetically it bothers me, and I personally do not care how others paint things.  I think it would look better with Daylight cab and tender, leaving off that toy-like series of stripes on the boiler jacket.  That would match what ey did to Atlantics and Mountains.

 

Solidly with you on the aesthetics part, not on any deviations from how they were actually painted though. 

Big JimBig JimOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by John Korling:
Originally Posted by bob2:

Aesthetically it bothers me, and I personally do not care how others paint things.  I think it would look better with Daylight cab and tender, leaving off that toy-like series of stripes on the boiler jacket.  That would match what ey did to Atlantics and Mountains.

 

Solidly with you on the aesthetics part, not on any deviations from how they were actually painted though. 

Don't worry guys, you are not alone.

The "sticklers" on the F1 Modeling Forum are seeing "RED" over this beautifully painted "White" Ferrari T4 for sale on ebay!

 

White T4

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Rod StewartRod StewartOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by John Korling:
Originally Posted by Passenger Train Collector:

not for the purist  

 

Nope, it's for all those blasphemous heretics.  May the Cab Forward spirits of the past rise to haunt & torment you guys evilly for as long as you own it!

 

There's also confirmed reports that #4294 in her final display resting place is weeping silently to herself that Lionel would so crassly insult her with such a visual travesty!

 

 

Haha, John you need to tell us how you really feel! 

Are we to assume from this that you won't be getting one?

 

Rod

Bobby OgageBobby OgageOGR Forum Member

Did you check to see if the rivets have a four times their diameter spacing? How is their edge distance. It should at least two times the rivet diameter. Did you check?

 

Although you did this in jest, I bet someone is counting their rivets. Oh, by the way, I will buy a locomotive with rivet discrepancies, but at a significantly discounted price because such a locomotive is defective.

FM Former Member

Beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder, liked it when it was included in the Signature Catalog, liked it in the Mike Reagan video, liked it when I finally got my hands on it, and still do. Isn't this hobby terrific when there is room for all opinions.   Maybe another photo will change some minds. 

 

 

Daylight Cab Forward 008

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John KorlingJohn KorlingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by aterry11:

I don't know what John Korling drives or where he lives but if you wake up tomorrow and your house and car/truck are daylight. GO WITH IT and I had  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!.... OK guys your free to do as you will.. I took the blame any body got a couple of extra weenie rollers???

 

 

Wow, all those CAPS and multiple exclamation marks.  Might want to go check your blood pressure there, sparky. 

boin106boin106OGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by John Korling:
Originally Posted by Passenger Train Collector:

Beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder  

 The use of the Latin language on the Forum is about as good as a cab forward in Daylight colors.

 

 

Non arbitrans quia gustus  (no accounting for taste) 

 

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