DCS Explorer

I spoke to Dave from MTH about the new DCS Explorer at York.  This unit is the intended replacement for the DCS Remote Commander.  The Explorer doesn't have many of the limitations of the Remote Commander, such as the engine will not have to be in factory reset condition to be recognized, greater range and flexibility moving around the layout since you don't have be in line of sight of an IR sensor.  You can also place more than one Explorer on the layout to address isolated blocks or loops as the app communicates directly with the engine.  It's a win for guys like me that only want the ability to run a few MTH engines on their layouts.

Did MTH have an example at York? From the picture from the catalog it looks like there are only two electrical connections, certainly there would need to be two inputs coming from the transformer and two outputs going to the track? I am curious if it could control more than 3 trains with the premium app? Or have the ability to control conventional trains by varying the AC voltage? I suppose at that point someone would have already decided to use full DCS.

SGP posted:

Did MTH have an example at York? From the picture from the catalog it looks like there are only two electrical connections, certainly there would need to be two inputs coming from the transformer and two outputs going to the track? I am curious if it could control more than 3 trains with the premium app? Or have the ability to control conventional trains by varying the AC voltage? I suppose at that point someone would have already decided to use full DCS.

My impression is this combines the track power and control in one unit.

I think there is a separate power supply for the DCS Explorer that may be the defacto transformer.

Im making my pre-order for the DCS Explorer at Legacy Station.

I see there is a wall-wart power supply listed in the MTH pre-order page - as a separate item

Is that needed for the DCS Explorer? Or does it come with a power supply?

Unclear looking at each items description.

Going through the catalog makes me think the DCS Explorer will not include a power supply when buying the DSC Explorer outside of a set. 

That said, I'm thinking about placing a pre-order with Legacy station also.

Additionally, does anyone know if the Explorer will operate conventional transformer-controlled locos?

If its anything like the simple DCS Commander (which it is directly replacing in all RTR sets) it will not be able to since it sends full voltage to the track all the time.

Going through the catalog makes me think the DCS Explorer will not include a power supply. 

When included in a RTR set, it will include a power supply.

If I'm using a Lionel 180W power supply, would that be too much power for the DCS Explorer?

With no real information on this unit, this is all speculation.  With that said, I believe that the DC Explorer will be similar to the DCS Remote Commander in regard to power supplies, I think it'll run passively with a standard supply directly on the tracks or feeding the power through the DCS Explorer.

John,

I think it'll run passively with a standard supply directly on the tracks or feeding the power through the DCS Explorer.

That's correct.

Would that mean TMCC could be also run on the same track with the TMCC remote or is it too soon to know?

Would that mean TMCC could be also run on the same track with the TMCC remote

Yes, that would be correct.

Barry, have you been able to confirm that the DCS Explorer will run passively with Dave K?  I got some mixed information on this from MTH.

Thank you for contacting MTH Electric Trains.  We appreciate your interest in our products. No, I am afraid the DCS Explorer will not have a passive mode.  Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything else I can help you with.

Thank you,         

Kirstin Martinez

MTH Electric Trains

Charlei,

My information is that the DCS Explorer will work in passive mode. However, at this stage in its life, nothing can be taken as gospel and everything is subject to change.

Most of this thread is based on rumor, supposition and what people have heard (yours truly included). There's little or no real information regarding this product. AFAIK, a prototype has yet to be built.

However, now that I think about it, what makes the explorer different from a TIU or a DCS Remote Commander is that the explorer needs to have its WiFi radio constantly powered. If it wasn't, it would be a real problem to have to reconnect to the app or the home network every time track power was turned off.

Requiring the power to go through the DCS Explorer will put a crimp in some folks operations I suspect.   From the look of the publicity mock-up pictures, it will have the anemic barrel jack to power the track like the DCS Remote Commander, so I sure hope they didn't preclude passive mode operation.

I like the idea of the mth explorer. I currently use lionel lion chief and it's easy to run two trains. But if I were to use this dcs explorer will I have any problems with the signal hooking this up to my track? I'm using a 180 w power supply now and the signal is good. I run two trains for now, maybe three trains at the most for my 5' x 16' layout.

The more I think about it, since there's only one pair of power wires on the explorer, it must connect to the track in "passive" mode, with a separate power supply for itself to keep its WiFi radio on all the time.

" But if I were to use this dcs explorer will I have any problems with the signal hooking this up to my track? "

Shouldn't be a problem, although as everyone says, this is still a proposal, not a product .  LionChief and LionChief+ operate directly between the handheld remote (or smartphone/tablet if using Bluetooth) and the loco.  As long as there is at least 6-8 volts on the track, the loco and command control from a remote device should work.  LionChief and LionChief+ do not interfere with nor are there any reports of their being  interfered with in current use when using DCS, so there's no reason the situation should be any different with the Explorer, at least as far as I can imagine.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

The more I think about it, since there's only one pair of power wires on the explorer, it must connect to the track in "passive" mode, with a separate power supply for itself to keep its WiFi radio on all the time.

Well, the DCS Remote Commander only had one set of connector terminals, but it used the barrel jack for input power.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the same rig on the DCS Explorer.  OTOH, I will be pretty surprised if it doesn't work in passive mode as well.

Page 5 of the RTR catalog has a picture of the DCS Explorer with the power supply - catalog blurb says 50W, 5A - doesn't add much clarity - but there it is.

I have one other question about the MTH DCS Explorer. I'm using Lionel Command Control Switches with my Fastrack. Is it possible to control the switches with the DCS WIFI?

Not unless that just happened.  You can only control locomotives as a rule.  I heard some talk about expanding that.

Thanks, John.

Is it possible to control the switches with the DCS WIFI?

Only with the Premium DCS App and a TIU/WIU/AIU combination.

This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

I keep coming back here with more questions about running DCS. I've heard wiring for DCS has to be a certain way.  My current layout is Fastrack with a 180 W power supply and 18 volts on the track. It is not star wiring as many people have talked about to get the max power needed for DCS signal. Would that be enough to get a good signal from DCS?

It is not really "max power for the DCS signal." It is just the DCS signal. The more resistance, i.e. the longer the track, the more DCS signal you will lose. If your track is fairly short, it would probably not be a problem. If your track is long, you will need additional connections to add signal strength along the way. Any additional connection, will need to be isolated from any other connection (blocks) for the best performance.

I keep coming back here with more questions about running DCS

In that case, do yourself a favor and consider acquiring one or both of the following books.

If you operate using a DCS Remote and/or the Standard version of the DCS App:

Everything that you need to know about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

If you operate using the Premium version of the DCS App:

Everything that you need to know about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Barry, I respect what you've done and enjoy reading your posts. For a potential newbie like me, however, I've  pretty much come to the conclusion that unless I just buy full-up DCS, I won't know if it works or not. And I really don't want to fork over $300-$350 just to build a test-case.

As an example, I only run TMCC/Legacy at this point.  I've been considering obtaining one-two MTH locos just because I like the looks of them. So, naturally, I was somewhat excited about the possibility of obtaining the DCS Explorer, and upgrading to a full DCS system once I learn more.

In preparation, I started asking questions on the forum, and the standard answer was that all of my questions are answered in DCS Companion 3.  So I bought it at York and started reading.

At this point, I have no idea if DCS will work with my layout or not.  Case in point, "the book" provides GREAT information on installing your wiring, suggesting twisted-pair, lengths, etc.  Then (and I'm paraphrasing) the chapter on adding DCS to an existing layout basically says to hook it up and see if it works. If not, try the light bulb trick at various points, etc. 

I know there is no definitive answer based on installation particulars, subjectivity, etc., whether you're running in a Faraday cage, etc. (just being silly), but I just don't know what to do. At this point, *if* I obtain any MTH engines, I'll probably just resort to conventional operation.  No real question here, just trying to de-mystify the black art of solid DCS operation.

Carl,

Honestly, I've never encountered a layout where TMCC worked and DCS wouldn't work at all. In fact, the very first time I put DCS on my last layout, back in 2002 or so, a track signal test yielded 6-7 out of 10. This was on a layout that was 11' X 8', and was wired with solid core wire and nothing even resembling either home run or buss wiring. In fact, the wiring technique was classic "spaghetti".  

Further, this was with the very first, Rev. G, model TIU which was far inferior to today's Rev. L model.

What saved me was that I just happened to have lighted bumpers on my sidings and the track, while wired very poorly, was set up as blocks.

Most layout wiring, if it doesn't do well at all with DCS, is easily fixed in any number of ways. I would encourage you to consider DCS in your future plans.

Another plan is to borrow a TIU and remote and do some testing.  If you have train friends or belong to a club, you should be able to find someone that has a spare.

Thanks for the info / advice so far; GRJ, I'm embarrassed to say "duhhhh....." about borrowing a TIU. I'm part of a club, so I'll have to put out the word that I'm looking to experiment.  Can't see the forest for the trees.

Secondly, do we *really* believe that the DCS Explorer will be available to ship with the RTR sets in the Oct-Dec timeframe?  All we've heard thus far is that we don't have a prototype yet, and anyone who *does* know I guess is just keeping it secret (probably as it should be...).  Typically, though, a prototype is shipped out, and the customer (MTH in this case) gets to thrash it to make sure it does what it's supposed to do before the go-ahead is given.  We're getting pretty close to the assumed availability date....

Am I able to run multiple trains using this. Also In the app in the paid section there is a place to use conventional trains (I am assuming thats what its for). Can I use my postwar trains with the app using the conventional setting? Sorry if these are no brainer questions, I'm kind of new to all this.

Mthtrainlover posted:

Am I able to run multiple trains using this. Also In the app in the paid section there is a place to use conventional trains (I am assuming thats what its for). Can I use my postwar trains with the app using the conventional setting? Sorry if these are no brainer questions, I'm kind of new to all this.

All good questions - but, so far, there is no real info about this product

OK, folks, help me wrap my brain around this product.

I usually don't get too worked up about new introductions, BTO, pre-orders, etc.  But I'm really intrigued by the DCS Explorer as a way for me to finally explore DCS, having no MTH products at this point in time.

I noticed this product in MTH's RTR catalog; it seems this is going to totally replace the traditional transformer in their starter sets.

Yet, nothing has surfaced yet. All posts above basically say we know nothing about the Explorer, yet we're getting pretty close to the Christmas order time. 

Is this just being VERY closely guarded by MTH?  I'd (ignorantly) think that they'd be trumpeting this new approach all over the place.  Or (possibly likely) are there issues with the development which may push the product into the spring?  Is MTH really going to abandon the train set market this fall?  Back-track and stuff a transformer in the box?

Kind of like the stock market, no news is bad news.  Does anyone know ANYthing about the reality of this being ready soon?  I'm just thinking they have to develop the technology, then it takes awhile to get the design packaged for set manufacturing, etc., and with shipping delays, they should have them now.

Carl,

it seems this is going to totally replace the traditional transformer in their starter sets.

That's incorrect

You still need a transformer to power the train, however, it can be a brick without a throttle. The DCS Explorer combines a single TIU channel and a WiFi receiver, with the DCS App running on an iOS or Android smartphone or tablet as the controller.

Well, yes, Barry, I kind of knew that in the back of my mind. In the context of my post, it would have been better had I stated, "totally replace the transformer for control of the trains."  Without going back to check the catalog, I wasn't sure whether the power source would/could be a transformer or if it was going to be a wall-wart, which is, of course, a transformer.

But we still have no info on the availability dates / design success, etc.   ;-)

Carl,

As of this past week, I learned that the DCS Explorer is on track for release as part of the Ready to Run sets, scheduled for October, with individual sale units scheduled for about a month later.

The DCS Explorer will require the DCS App as its controller. As yet unknown by me is if the present release of the DCS App is able to control the DCS Explorer or if an update to the DCS App will be required.

Thanks for the update, Barry!  Glad to hear it's on-track for release in time for the holidays.