DCS Explorer

I asked in another thread but no response... maybe just because no one knows yet!

The wifi/tiu unit is described as being able to run 3 trains...I'm guessing that the unit provided in the RTR sets is the same unit that will be sold separately... if so, the set-provided unit should be able to control 3 trains (with a more robust power supply).

It looks like the wifi/tiu unit just passes the voltage thru and passively tags on the DCS signal but the 5 amp fuse concerns me.  If you want to run 3 trains, you may draw more than 5 amps thru the unit....

Confused in Connecticut!

Ed

From the descriptions provided so far, it appears that the power has to go through the DCS Explorer.

When they're available, I'd be tempted to try an experiment of powering the unit with DC power and then using a large capacitor to block the DC from the track but allow the DCS signal through.  Then connect the transformer directly to the track through a 22uh choke rated for the maximum power.  That may allow you to run a full 10 amps to the track and still use the DCS Explorer.

Since I've never seen one, this is just a spitball idea that might allow more power to the track.   Until I have one to tinker with, it'll just be a guess as to a possible solution.

I think three trains with only 5 amps is possible with sacrificing smoke on at least two if not all locomotives.

If you are going to run lighted passenger cars, I'd use the LED lighting conversions from GRJ.

Lots to wonder about...

I wish I had noticed the wifi/tiu at York.  That would have been the place to ask some questions about the details.

A lot depends on what the 5A fuse does in the circuit... if it's just there to protect the set-provided transformer, and the power really just passes thru the unit, then a bigger fuse might be do-able with a bigger brick.

I think that if the unit just tags the DCS signal on the AC going through the unit, it may be able to do passive mode by just hanging it onto the power leads of a transformer going directly to the track.  The power for the unit would then be "back fed" to the unit thru the output ports.

eddiem posted:

Lots to wonder about...

I wish I had noticed the wifi/tiu at York.  That would have been the place to ask some questions about the details.

A lot depends on what the 5A fuse does in the circuit... if it's just there to protect the set-provided transformer, and the power really just passes thru the unit, then a bigger fuse might be do-able with a bigger brick.

I think that if the unit just tags the DCS signal on the AC going through the unit, it may be able to do passive mode by just hanging it onto the power leads of a transformer going directly to the track.  The power for the unit would then be "back fed" to the unit thru the output ports.

Response from MTH:

MTH RD posted:

The 6A max rating on the input is just that, we don't support any supplies with higher current output.  The MTH Z-1000 brick has a 6A breaker on the output and is the maximum input supported for the DCS Explorer.

The 5A fuse is there to try and protect the Explorer in the event someone, of course this would never, ever, happen, ignores the 6A input rating and puts an arc welder into it.  There is a current sensing circuit that is very sensitive and fast but, with enough current, may not respond quickly enough.  The 5A fuse is there as a last resort to save the device.  If anyone is blowing the 5A fuse then, they should switch to a different or lower output supply.  This would indicate a problem.

The max current output from the DCS Explorer is 5A.  However, in model railroading, current draw varies significantly.  Engines going around a curve can increase momentary current draws by half an amp or more.  So, the practical steady state current draw is really closer to 4A or, so.  When you get to that level and then increase speed on an engine from say 30 to 100 smph, the current sensing circuit may do it's job and shut down.

This is an entry level product intended for train sets and small beginner layouts.  It is not a solution for O ga hobbyists.  We have the WIU/TIU combination for you guys.

 Passive Mode response from MTH:

MTH RD posted:

Unfortunately, the Explorer does not support passive mode.  Unlike the aux power input on the TIU, the input power on the Explorer is also track power.  Said differently, if you connect the Explorer passively, it will not even power up.  If you connect supplies to the input and output, bad things can happen.

H1000,

Good info.. not sure where you found it, but it put a lot of my ideas to rest.

That being said, I'm wondering why they are advertising it as being capable of running 3 trains.... maybe controlling 3 trains via DCS with only one running at a time?... sneaky!

My desired use is to control DCS trains on a small portable modular layout.  The Wifi/tiu is a much smaller package than a TUI and WiFi unit. (about one TIU's worth less space.) 

Sometimes space is at a premium:

Anyone recognize the location????

eddiem posted:

H1000,

Good info.. not sure where you found it, but it put a lot of my ideas to rest.

That being said, I'm wondering why they are advertising it as being capable of running 3 trains.... maybe controlling 3 trains via DCS with only one running at a time?... sneaky!

These questions were responses from MTH RD on other threads on the OGR forum. The search tool is a wonderful thing!

I'm pretty confident one could run three trains with 5 amps of power. You may not want to run smoke on each engine and pull a string of passenger cars with incandescent lighting as that would most likely exceed the amp limit.

A while back my kids and I were board and we setup a large loop of track on the floor in the basement and hooked up a Z1000 transformer to a TIU on one channel.  We put five engines on (two sets with (3) incandescent passenger cars and the other three with some ordinary rolling stock. All five ran okay, until the kids wanted to see some smoke. After we turned on the second smoke unit, the breaker tripped within seconds.

eddiem posted:

Anyone recognize the location????

The moon?  Other than that, it would be the York grandstand.

I still think my idea of powering the DCS Explorer and blocking the DC or low frequency AC power from the tracks with a large cap may work for more current.

The York grandstand on a beautiful Thursday morning just before opening!

Didn't get much of a chance to say "hi' at York, but it's good that you have a busy booth!

I guess we'll be able to experiment soon.. hope they arrive on schedule!

(so, do you think the power supply provided with the wif/tiu is AC?  could be DC?)  Aren't MTH ps2 & 3 supposed to run on DC?

Eddie, Even as a first timer at York, I recognize the location.  You were right in the middle of the action!!  Hopefully I will meet you next time.

John, Yes while MTH isn't intending the Explorer for "serious O Gaugers" I can see the potential for the serious O Gauger who only has room to run 3 engines at a time.

Mark Boyce posted:

Eddie, Even as a first timer at York, I recognize the location.  You were right in the middle of the action!!  Hopefully I will meet you next time.

Mark,

Hope you enjoyed your first time at York!

My train layout has been at York for the past 3 events.  We get in on Wednesday and Thursday morning there's not much to do, so I run some trains (2 trains and a trolley... full DCS). When I pulled in this time, a few of my fellow campers stopped by to ask if I'd be setting up the trains!  It often turns into two discussions: one about trains, dcs, etc., the other about "did you build that van?"

(sorry for a slight detour on the thread guys!)

Eddie,

I had a great time!!  I wish I had seen your van layout though!  Next time!!

Eddie,

I suspect that the 3 train claim for the DCS Explorer is somehow tied to the fact that the DCS App is what's intended for use with the device, and that the free version can control up to 3 DCS engines.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Eddie,

I suspect that the 3 train claim for the DCS Explorer is somehow tied to the fact that the DCS App is what's intended for use with the device, and that the free version can control up to 3 DCS engines.

Barry,

That makes sense, and I guess with some low power locos it would work with three.  I use the Lionel 180W bricks for everything home and portable, and in reality they're only 10 Amps at 18 Volts, so the 5 amps may get it done for a few locos and a trolley!

I decided to order a set with the new Wifi/Tiu unit included...more trains to play with and a quicker way to get my hands on the new controller!

I like the fact that they put an easy-to-access fuse on the side.

Most likely, the wires (or board traces) from the input to the output are limited in size and that's the controlling factor.  It's not like a regular TIU where they are regulating voltage on the variable channels too.  Once they are in hand, I wouldn't be surprised if we could add a more robust path from input to output and up the amperage that passes thru.

eddiem posted:

 

Most likely, the wires (or board traces) from the input to the output are limited in size and that's the controlling factor.  It's not like a regular TIU where they are regulating voltage on the variable channels too.  Once they are in hand, I wouldn't be surprised if we could add a more robust path from input to output and up the amperage that passes thru.

 

 

I'm not sure that will work the way you want it to. Note the response from MTH about a sensing circuit that will stop power in an overload state (this would need to be bypassed or disabled):

MTH RD posted:

 

The 5A fuse is there to try and protect the Explorer in the event someone, of course this would never, ever, happen, ignores the 6A input rating and puts an arc welder into it.  There is a current sensing circuit that is very sensitive and fast but, with enough current, may not respond quickly enough.  The 5A fuse is there as a last resort to save the device.  If anyone is blowing the 5A fuse then, they should switch to a different or lower output supply.  This would indicate a problem.

 It feels like we all want MTH to make this handle a full 10 amps of power. In reality, 5 amps should be enough for almost every situation out there. If you need more than that, you are now venturing into the "hobbyist" category and I would be looking into the full TIU & WIU setup.

See my previous post.  Simply passing the DCS frequency on to the track and blocking the power should allow you to have whatever power on the track you'd like.  Add a choke to keep the transformer impedance from affecting the DCS signal and we should be good to go.

I think something else that would be interesting to know is will the DCS App be able to communicate to more than one Explorer? If you have two separate loops each with there own DCS Explorer, can I run three trains per loop using these two DCS Explorers from one tablet?

I suspect not as Barry eluded to early that the limitation is set within the free app to limit adding only three locomotives. The free app seems to have the same functionality as the Remote Commander does, and I don't think even the standard upgrade will allow you to connect to more than one Explorer at a time to work with more than three trains.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

See my previous post.  Simply passing the DCS frequency on to the track and blocking the power should allow you to have whatever power on the track you'd like.  Add a choke to keep the transformer impedance from affecting the DCS signal and we should be good to go.

I agree 100%. This method has the best chance of success. The DCS Explorer simply generates the signal on the track and handles none of the load.

Do I sense another JW&A Enhancement Product on the horizon?

Not sure there's any product requirement here.  Other than a capacitor to couple the DCS frequency to the tracks, and a honkin' big 22uh choke for the transformer power feed, there's no other parts required.

H1000 posted:

I think something else that would be interesting to know is will the DCS App be able to communicate to more than one Explorer? If you have two separate loops each with there own DCS Explorer, can I run three trains per loop using these two DCS Explorers from one tablet?

I suspect not as Barry eluded to early that the limitation is set within the free app to limit adding only three locomotives. The free app seems to have the same functionality as the Remote Commander does, and I don't think even the standard upgrade will allow you to connect to more than one Explorer at a time to work with more than three trains.

I'll mix a few responses in here.  First, yes, the starter set app (due out shortly) will be able to talk to multiple DCS Explorers.  As you point out, this is of little use given the limited number of engines in the starter set app (also known as the free app).  And, to clarify, when the new version of the app is released, user's will be prompted to choose either the DCS Explorer or the WIU.  You can jump back in forth in app settings but, choosing the DCS Explorer limits the number of engines and features.  You cannot connect to the DCS Explorer using the standard or premium version of the app.

While the SS app can only control 3, that is independent of the DCS Explorer's power capability.  Power is power, right?  So, for example, if you stick 20VAC into the DCS explorer and assume you can "practically" sustain ~4.2A of current, this is 84 Watts of power.  Quite a bit.  Running 3 starter set or even RK engines with a typical consist of cars (for beginners) should not result in a power problem.  OTOH, if you put 12V in then, you only have about 50 Watts so,  a very different scenario.  Simply stated, we are not hedging the 3 engines based on the app.  We are simply trying to help establish reasonable expectations for the product.  This is an entry level product and can run a few trains but, shouldn't be considered a solution for a moderate or larger layout.

On some other issues discussed in this thread, sure, there are ways it may be possible to isolate the input power to the Explorer and make it work in passive mode.  But, again, we don't support that and there is serious risk of damage to the device if one doesn't know exactly what is going on.  Given the very limited set of commands available in the Explorer, I struggle to understand how a power user could be satisfied even if it did support passive mode. 

The question was raised about running the DCS Explorer, I responded with a likely scenario where that would be possible.  I seriously doubt what I suggested could harm the DCS Explorer, at least I sure can't imagine how. I'm also not 100% sure it would actually work, though my engineering background and the similar operation of the TIU strongly suggests that it would.  It's yet to be tested in real life, and since I don't have the device, I leave that exercise to the student.

Your point about limited options is probably quite valid, but that wasn't the question posed.   I use the full DCS system, so that's a moot point for me.

They have changed quite a bit on this product between April and now.  There was no mention of a separate app for the DCS Explorer in April when I talked to MTH at York.  For those of us that have a few MTH engines this seemed like a great solution.  Since now it won't come out of the box with the ability to run passively, nor will it have a full feature set, I guess that scraps my idea of giving the MTH app a try with this product.  Apparently MTH has decided they are worried about people buying these instead of full DCS.

There was no mention of a separate app for the DCS Explorer in April when I talked to MTH at York. 

There is not a "separate app" for the DCS Explorer. After the next update to the DCS App, you can use the free version to operate a DCS Explorer.

Since now it won't come out of the box with the ability to run passively

Why do you require that the DCS Explorer operate in passive mode?

nor will it have a full feature set

Why would you expect the device to be as full-featured as a complete DCS TIU and remote, or a TIU, WIU and the DCS App?

This is an entry-level product that's the WiFi equivalent of the DCS Remote Commander, except  that it will do more than the DCS Remote Commander and will operate any DCS engine, not just ones that have been Factory Reset.

Apparently MTH has decided they are worried about people buying these instead of full DCS.

On the contrary, the plan is that folks will get a taste of DCS from the DCS Explorer and then purchase a TIU and WIU to run a complete layout using DCS.

Now I'm a bit concerned!

I understand that the new WiFi/TIU is not a replacement for a full setup, but I had counted on the fact that I could use the mid-priced ($5) app the run it.  To me, the free app is really lacking (unless they have added a few things), and I already am very comfortable with the basic $5 app. (Will soon be adding the Premium app to my regular DCS setup)

I thought I read that the various level apps would all work, with 3 engines, but with no variable tracks, no AIU, etc.  Not asking a lot!

I was basing my thoughts on a statement Barry made back in May, "The DCS Explorer will use the same DCS App as is presently available, in all of its forms: free, Standard and Premium."

Yesterday I ordered a new set with the new DCS Explorer so I could integrate in to my small modular layout(s) with the Standard app.  Fingers crossed!

Hmm seems MTH are extremely busy trying to limit the DCS Explorer now, what a shame.

I had reserved one since my LHS has these on order already but after reading where this is going, I am not going to be an early adopter. 

On another note on my last visit to my LHS I saw these Backmann HO engines that have integrated wifi built into the engine. You can run it with a free app E-Z App™ from your phone without a box, it's all built in. The sound however comes out of the phone not the engine. 

Here is a link ...

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com...amp;products_id=5847

I wonder if they decided to expand this to O gauge and have the sound come from the engine ... 

My misunderstanding about the app. Not a separate app, but a limited feature set.  Regarding running it passively, the Remote Commander works passivley. Why not the Explorer?

Eddie,

The DCS Explorer will use the same DCS App as is presently available, in all of its forms: free, Standard and Premium."

That was my information at the time, this past May, based on conversations with MTH. It would appear that the situation may have changed in the past few months. Actually, I'm having a tough time understanding why all versions of the DCS App won't run the DCS Explorer, albeit with its limited capabilities. I suppose we'll learn soon enough what are the facts in the matter.

Regardless, the DCS Explorer way always supposed to be limited in its capabilities. Notwithstanding the version of the DCS App used, it has always been described as only running 3 different engines with a limited set of engine capabilities.

Regarding running it passively, the Remote Commander works passivley. Why not the Explorer?

Because the DCS Explorer, unlike the DCS Remote Commander, includes a WiFi radio that needs to be constantly powered. This power comes from the power input that's used both to operate trains and power the DCS Explorer itself.

I guess that for now it's a wait-and-see situation.

To limit commands from the Standard app, MTH would actually have to program the DCS Exp to ignore some of the commands sent from the app. Sad that they have to waste time un-programming features that even the basic user would appreciate!

If I recall (haven't used the free app in a while) the one missing feature that shouldn't be missing in ANY version or hardware is the option to set top speed.  Especially for a starter kit, that option should be included!

Wondering: can you install the free app on your phone if the S or P app is already there?

There are plenty of features that differentiate the new DCS Exp from the WIU/TIU/REMOTE setup.... like variable tracks, switch controls, and lots of other options.

I find it disappointing that the business of selling trains interferes with offering the best product they can!  Just my 2 cents!

Eddie,

I'm wondering if, perhaps, the actual situation might be the following. That. regardless of which version of the app one is using - free, Standard or Premium - the app simply defaults to the appearance of the free version when using a DCS Explorer.

I've queried MTH R&D on the subject.

I thought I read that the various level apps would all work, with 3 engines, but with no variable tracks, no AIU, etc.  Not asking a lot!

I think this is asking a lot. This is intended as a replacement for the existing Remote Commander. The Remote Commander doesn't have these functions, and the DCS Explorer adds the ability to control three engines independently on one track unlike the Remote Commander. I don't think new hobbyists are going to be concerned about AIU's or Variable tack voltage. These are features for advanced hobbyists which should be on the TIU/WIU setup.

Hmm seems MTH are extremely busy trying to limit the DCS Explorer now, what a shame.

Again, this just a replacement for the current Remote Commander, It does more that than the remote commander with a nicer interface.

If I recall (haven't used the free app in a while) the one missing feature that shouldn't be missing in ANY version or hardware is the option to set top speed.  Especially for a starter kit, that option should be included!

I agree, very important and I hope MTH includes this.

This is an entry level product. If you buy the base model of car we don't expect the manufacture to include all of the features of the luxury model. The DCS Explorer will perform the basic essentials that we need it to do, run a few trains.

Carl Orton posted:

OK, folks, help me wrap my brain around this product.

I usually don't get too worked up about new introductions, BTO, pre-orders, etc.  But I'm really intrigued by the DCS Explorer as a way for me to finally explore DCS, having no MTH products at this point in time.

I noticed this product in MTH's RTR catalog; it seems this is going to totally replace the traditional transformer in their starter sets.

Yet, nothing has surfaced yet. All posts above basically say we know nothing about the Explorer, yet we're getting pretty close to the Christmas order time. 

Is this just being VERY closely guarded by MTH?  I'd (ignorantly) think that they'd be trumpeting this new approach all over the place.  Or (possibly likely) are there issues with the development which may push the product into the spring?  Is MTH really going to abandon the train set market this fall?  Back-track and stuff a transformer in the box?

Kind of like the stock market, no news is bad news.  Does anyone know ANYthing about the reality of this being ready soon?  I'm just thinking they have to develop the technology, then it takes awhile to get the design packaged for set manufacturing, etc., and with shipping delays, they should have them now.

Let me try to clear some things up.  The DCS Explorers have been produced and are in transit to MTH.  The first batch of production units will be packed into train sets and shipped to our dealers within the next few weeks.  Clearly, we've missed October.  The separate sale DCS Explorer units will be available the first week of December, or so.

Indeed the DCS Explorer replaces the "transformer" (means of running the train) in ready-to-run sets.  The sets will, of course, include a power supply that plugs into the DCS Explorer.  The included supply is a 16VDC at 3.75A for a total of 60 Watts.  More than adequate to run the set plus some expansion.  

You are not ignorant to wonder why MTH has not been out there beating drums promoting the Explorer.  Under normal circumstances, we certainly would have been.  The fact of the matter is this product was developed on a very aggressive timeline and we weren't sure if we were even going to make it.  The Explorers for the train sets are being brought in via airfreight.  Ouch. 

An update to the existing DCS app will be released soon.  We have it on our devices internally now.  You guys will have it soon.  As in days from now.  Maybe even over the weekend or Monday.  Within this update is the DCS Explorer app.  It's essentially the same as the existing free app however, there have been some changes, expanded features, etc.  In app settings, you will be able to choose the hardware you have.  Either DCS Explorer or DCS WIU/TIU.  You will need to have the correct hardware selected or the app will not talk to your device.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  When a new train set buyer downloads the app and first opens it, they will be prompted to select their hardware.  Of course, they will need to choose the DCS Explorer.  Then, when they try to access features that are not available, the app doesn't encourage them to upgrade as the DCS Explorer does not support the features found in the standard or premium apps.  Imagine how upset you would be if we suggested spending money to upgrade your app only to find out the features don't work anyway.  Of course, we cannot do that.

So, if the new app user selects WIU/TIU then the free version of the app talks to the WIU and the upgrade path is exactly as it is today.  If the Explorer is selected, the app lets them know they need to upgrade their hardware to access the expanded features of the app(s).   Don't worry, you can always just switch back and forth between the hardware types within app settings.

Carl, you are exactly who this product is aimed at.  Well, you and those just entering model railroading.  As the members of this forum know and our marketing genius has coined, DCS is "Simply the best way to run a railroad" in our humble opinion.  We believe model railroading must embrace the technology wave and ride along.  So, from starter sets to starter hobbyists, we needed a solution.  The DCS Explorer is it.  

Stay tuned though...there's much more to follow.

MTH RD,

Thank you for your explanations!  I think I understand the need for the DCS Explorer as an entry level improvement over the old Commander.  I moved to O Gauge from HO over 5 years ago with an entry level MTH set with the commander.  When I wanted to buy a PS-2 locomotive, not in a set, I was in sort of a pickle.  I finally forked out the money for a TIU and Remote to run two locomotives.  Some Forum members can attest to the fact that I struggled for a while.  I actually bought a LionChief Plus locomotive and toyed with the idea of selling all my DCS equipment.  I finally got help here, and sold the LionChief instead.  I can see the Explorer will be a vast improvement in a situation like that.  I think the jump to a full blown DCS system will be a lot easier for an entry level customer who wants to start expanding.

Thanks MTH RD for posting this.
Is there a feature list you can post of what this can do ?

yamawho posted:

Thanks MTH RD for posting this.
Is there a feature list you can post of what this can do ?

 

• Start Up/Shut Down
• Speed
• Direction
• Whistle/Horn (reg whistle - not quillable)
• Bell
• Cplr (front and rear)
• Headlight 
• Smoke (on/off only)
• Engine Sounds
• PFA
• Doppler
• Master Volume
• E-stop
• Engine Feature Reset
• Engine Factory Reset

Basically all of the features available on the main and secondary engine control screens.  I may be missing something but, I think this is basically it in terms of engine control.

Of course, system level things like adding or deleting engines, selecting between Explorer or WIU hardware, resetting the app, etc., are also included.  

Thanks again ... looks good so far.

MTH RD posted:

• Start Up/Shut Down
• Speed
• Direction
• Whistle/Horn (reg whistle - not quillable)
• Bell
• Cplr (front and rear)
• Headlight 
• Smoke (on/off only)
• Engine Sounds
• PFA
• Doppler
• Master Volume
• E-stop
• Engine Feature Reset
• Engine Factory Reset

Basically all of the features available on the main and secondary engine control screens.  I may be missing something but, I think this is basically it in terms of engine control.

Of course, system level things like adding or deleting engines, selecting between Explorer or WIU hardware, resetting the app, etc., are also included.  

Two concerns:

1) I don't see "ability to set max speed" on the list.  How could that NOT be included in a starter set for kids?  It's real easy to hit the 120mph spot on a small screen!

2) "The included supply is a 16VDC at 3.75A for a total of 60 Watts.  More than adequate to run the set plus some expansion"

Why advertise "can run 3 PS2 or PS3 trains" in the preview info?  Will 3 MTH DCS locos reliably run on 3.75 amps? How about the two steamers in sets with the new DCS Explorer plus a 3rd loco?

OK, my last point...

Imagine how upset you would be if we suggested spending money to upgrade your app only to find out the features don't work anyway.  Of course, we cannot do that.

Allowing the discussions here to flounder around for months and keeping even the "guys in the know (Barry, Marty,et. al.)" in the dark is equally upsetting.  I read 6 months of discussion about the likely features, then order a set a few days ago, then find out that the 3 train feature is more like "wishful thinking".  The Wifi/TIU would have been perfect for a small portable layout of mine (as noted above)!  Previous discussions as recent as a few days ago suggested that it would be a great solution!  (Still hoping it will work for my plans, once it arrives!)

Equal time:

I TRULY DO appreciate the SINGLE approach across the MTH line that DCS offers.  (and ALL your stuff easily runs conventional too!)

I'm amazed that Lionel has some trains that are TMCC, some that are Lionchief (single remote), some that are Lionchief Plus (remote  plus bluetooth if you buy after a certain date?), Legacy, whatever is next...  Sorry - you can't run Lionchief or Plus on TMCC, but your Legacy stuff will work, but the bluetooth stuff, .....on and on! 

Thanks, MTH... sometimes frustrating, but we love ya!

MTHRD.  I have the most recent versions of the android premium app, 2 WIUs, and the DCS software installed and running fine.  It appears that if I do the forthcoming app update, every time I fire up I have to select the WIU, even though I have no Explorer.  SO is there any benefit to doing the update?  (I'm sure that the next following update will be needed and will present this choice.

Actually, Lionel's varied and nuanced approach is working quite well for me.  Those of us with TMCC, Legacy, LC and LC+ locos have no problems to speak of.  And these days, every LC and LC+ loco comes with everything needed to operate it.  You can always use your smart device, but you don't have to .  And new locos will work with that smart device without investing a hundred dollars in a wi-fi device.  Bluetooth is simple that way, and from now on, all Lionel locos will have Bluetooth.  Simple, reliable and inexpensive.

Hope you enjoy your Explorer. 

eddiem posted:

MTH RD posted:

• Start Up/Shut Down
• Speed
• Direction
• Whistle/Horn (reg whistle - not quillable)
• Bell
• Cplr (front and rear)
• Headlight 
• Smoke (on/off only)
• Engine Sounds
• PFA
• Doppler
• Master Volume
• E-stop
• Engine Feature Reset
• Engine Factory Reset

Basically all of the features available on the main and secondary engine control screens.  I may be missing something but, I think this is basically it in terms of engine control.

Of course, system level things like adding or deleting engines, selecting between Explorer or WIU hardware, resetting the app, etc., are also included.  

Two concerns:

1) I don't see "ability to set max speed" on the list.  How could that NOT be included in a starter set for kids?  It's real easy to hit the 120mph spot on a small screen!

2) "The included supply is a 16VDC at 3.75A for a total of 60 Watts.  More than adequate to run the set plus some expansion"

Why advertise "can run 3 PS2 or PS3 trains" in the preview info?  Will 3 MTH DCS locos reliably run on 3.75 amps? How about the two steamers in sets with the new DCS Explorer plus a 3rd loco?

OK, my last point...

Imagine how upset you would be if we suggested spending money to upgrade your app only to find out the features don't work anyway.  Of course, we cannot do that.

Allowing the discussions here to flounder around for months and keeping even the "guys in the know (Barry, Marty,et. al.)" in the dark is equally upsetting.  I read 6 months of discussion about the likely features, then order a set a few days ago, then find out that the 3 train feature is more like "wishful thinking".  The Wifi/TIU would have been perfect for a small portable layout of mine (as noted above)!  Previous discussions as recent as a few days ago suggested that it would be a great solution!  (Still hoping it will work for my plans, once it arrives!)

Equal time:

I TRULY DO appreciate the SINGLE approach across the MTH line that DCS offers.  (and ALL your stuff easily runs conventional too!)

I'm amazed that Lionel has some trains that are TMCC, some that are Lionchief (single remote), some that are Lionchief Plus (remote  plus bluetooth if you buy after a certain date?), Legacy, whatever is next...  Sorry - you can't run Lionchief or Plus on TMCC, but your Legacy stuff will work, but the bluetooth stuff, .....on and on!  ARRRGGHHH! What a mess!

Thanks, MTH... sometimes frustrating, but we love ya!

Eddie, let me try to explain a couple of things that may address your concerns above.

With regard to max speed, I see what you mean.  Our concern was with the whole password, etc., so, parents would need to set this anyway.  We can add this in pretty easily and I'll give that a look.

The power supply included in the set is intended for the set.  Of course, we think its a good idea to always put enough power in the set for some modest expansion however, if you want to run several trains on a larger layout with some switches and accessories, etc., then the set supply is not enough.  And, it wasn't intended to be.  You can plug a Z1000 brick into the DCS Explorer and run a modest sized layout as you probably know.

We didn't intentionally allow discussions here to flounder but, as you can see from my sporadic posts,  there really isn't anyone here with the time or tasked with keeping up with the forum and posting.  While I think it's a worth while effort, it can eat up a lot of time.  So, sorry, we'll try to do better.