DCS Hand Held Controllers

The day of the remote is going away.  The app will be the new DCS remote whether you like it or not.  I suspect the other manufacturers will head in this direction as well.  Once all the remotes are sold that's it folks, time to download the app and get a WIU.  I'm not sure how many ways people need to be told this.  To be honest I'd be more concerned about making sure I can get a WIU more than a remote.  Because once the remotes are gone the rush will be on the WIU.

"If one wears out, what are the options other than going with the new phone/i pad controls. "

Buying used or new old stock, if available.  Good chance prices might come down when the dust settles. Otherwise, nothing. My sympathies. I would not be happy if LC/LC+/TMCC/Legacy remotes were not available.  There's also conventional.

There is currently a market for PS2 and PS3 locos now that MTH has announced its closure and no successor entity has appeared.  Good time to sell your PS2 and PS3 locos if that's an option.  Lots of other trains out there.

Despite claims that MTH electronics will somehow live on, a reality check shows that they have done very little with the app.  

Every few days there is a post where someone is having trouble connecting their smart device to the MTH Wi-Fi/TIU. The current fix is to delete the app and reload it in the right sequence with Wi-Fi/TIU active - not particularly elegant.  The last update to this app was a small fix in 2019 (v3.2.1) to make it compatible with iOS 9. The current release of iOS is 14 (actually 14.5 beta and it is still working).  I suspect that the Android version is equally lagging. A few years ago MTH announced that they were discontinuing the remote control so you could run your trains with your smart device but has done little to keep the app current. At this point, it is 5 operating releases behind; how many more operating system upgrades before it is rendered useless? TMCC/Legacy cannot run DCS equipment so your choices are: 1) your remote, if you have one, 2) run in conventional, 3) convert to TMCC (ERR), or hope that someone actually buys MTH and keeps it alive.

Assuming that someone buys the electronic portion, what are they going to make?  Obsolete boards for obsolete trains?  A free, or on time $20 charge, premium app?  I don’t see that being a profitable venture.

I’m not a fan of running trains on a smart phone were you have a choice of answering the phone or a train wreck.  I do run the app on a, Wi-Fi only, iPad.

MTH will be missed.  DCS works very well.  They were a great source of many odd locomotives that Lionel never made.  If nothing else, they kept Lionel competitive.  Without them, we many get to see the same old locomotives the fanciful color schemes - I can’t wait to see the Amtrak BigBoy.

If we are lucky someone will buy the MTH product line and continue to produce competitive models.

@Daniel Meckstroth posted:

Do not appreciate the first sentence. Some like to keep things the way they are and that is why  I posted the question.

Sorry that offended you it wasn't meant that way. I'll remove that for ya.  Since MTH announced the retirement of the remote there has been an out cry  especially on this forum but if you look at just about everything else nowadays it's all moving to a smart device.  I just can't get worked up about a remote going away as long as there is a path to continue to operate the trains.

Again my apologies for the first sentence. It's valid but uneatable. Again I think the WIU is more key to this than the remote as it is the only pathway to continue to operate these engines in command.

Boy I'm sitting on a gold mine if I ever decide to sell my DCS system  My remote works very well just to put it out there.  LOL

Want to sell your hand held?

Dont forget your 3.0  engines will run dcc and they have remotes and several makers, plus you can go tmcc

I suspect when the Legacy handheld goes away, and I suspect it will eventually, then we'll be going through this again.  For the most part the LC app does well for what it was intended but involved remotes that do more are IMO a challenge to app builders and the lack of tactile feedback is painful.  That being said it's the wave of the future for those of us that rather run command than the handle up is faster, down is slower, method.

@Doug-Sr posted:

Dont forget your 3.0  engines will run dcc and they have remotes and several makers, plus you can go tmcc

For DCC you will have to convert to DC.  Yes TMCC is an option.

My iPhone 6 is up to date and is only 12.5.1 Maybe the solution to IOS upgrades is to keep or buy an old phone.

@Oman posted:

My iPhone 6 is up to date and is only 12.5.1 Maybe the solution to IOS upgrades is to keep or buy an old phone.

I am running ios 14.5, beta, on an iphone 12 Pro.  You are good through this combination.  Keeping an old phone or using a wifi table are potential solutions.

I bought a few of the DCS controllers when they were being sold fairly cheap on the forum and eBay, and I also have several spare TIU's.  That seems to be the only way to insure you'll have the equipment to run your DCS locomotives in the future at this point.  I have at least 30 DCS locomotives, and I want to be able to run them long into the future.

mth did make another run of remotes and tiu's and they were advertised new tiu's were around $229.00 and remotes was just under  200.00 ! if you need  a used tiu or remote  let me know ,I have several in excellent shape  !

Alan

If remotes do truly go completely away it will be a sad day.   If you've ever run serious switching ops it is so much easier using a remote with a tactile thumb wheel you do not have to look at in order to control your engines (so you can watch what you are doing and not bang into rolling stock or look away to throw switches, etc).  Plus at shows it allows me to interact with our guests and watch the trains without having to look at a remote - my hand is down at my side happily controlling the trains while I talk and accurately spot cars.

-Greg

Greg, my take on the elimination of the remotes is that the people making the decisions are simply bean counters, they've never actually operated a model train and certainly not doing an operating session.  The difference between having real controls with tactile feel and one handed operation vs a touch screen that you have to look at and normally use both hands to operate is enormous!

Would you be willing to sell one of the TIU’s?

Although I prefer using a dedicated controller, my guess is that the trend toward using a phone or tablet is inevitable due to parts availability, technological limitations, support, and the desire to be "modern".  This will occur regardless of whether or not DCS is kept alive as an ongoing organization.

I bought a few Amazon Fire tablets to use with DCS.  At $40 or $50, they're cheap. Bigger than a phone, so easier to read the screen.  And if one hits the floor, it's not a catastrophe.

@amtrack5899 posted:

Would you be willing to sell one of the TIU’s?

Not until the smoke clears.  The fact that the "new" TIU they're talking about (vaporware so far), only interfaces to smart devices, I'm holding on to stuff that will talk to the remotes.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Greg, my take on the elimination of the remotes is that the people making the decisions are simply bean counters, they've never actually operated a model train and certainly not doing an operating session.  The difference between having real controls with tactile feel and one handed operation vs a touch screen that you have to look at and normally use both hands to operate is enormous!

I think it has to do more with how fast hardware becomes dated or even obsolete and to your point slightly the cost of trying to keep it relevant.  In the days when the current DCS and Legacy handhelds were released the features were probably at their maximum for the time.  Now Lionel is adding more and more functionality that the hardware is having a harder time to support.  By the time they get through the R&D phase and then produce a remote it would be outdated.  But wait, here comes the smart phone.  Someone else makes the expensive hardware every year and Lionel just re-issues and updates the code for the new feature sets.  What's more is it can be easier to customize within limits.  Just think you could have a left handed remote just by a software switch where the horn slider switches which side of the screen it's on based on which hand the user is operating from.

What type of amazon fire tablet did you buy. I see they have several types 7 , 8 10 etc. I believe older iPhones will not support the lionel app. Will the amazon tablets work for the lionel app? Do these tablets use the android or apple version of the lionel and DCS apps?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Greg, my take on the elimination of the remotes is that the people making the decisions are simply bean counters, they've never actually operated a model train and certainly not doing an operating session.  The difference between having real controls with tactile feel and one handed operation vs a touch screen that you have to look at and normally use both hands to operate is enormous!

I agree, John; if you spend your time looking at your phone instead of watching your trains run, what's the point? It's the toy-train version of texting while driving: don't do it.

I recently bought the MTH Wifi unit. Have to install soon. I am sure I will be on the forum soon after I begin the installation.

I have 3 remotes, as my layout can accommodate up to 3 operators. The most operators I have had at once is two. However, with 3 remotes, I should be OK for a while. Had to replace the thumb wheel on one already.

Gunrunner has a good idea about getting a spare TIU and AIU. I have one TIU and 4 AIU's on my layout, so a spare of each is really a must. Time to start looking. I love the great ideas I get from this forum, things I would never think of on my own. With 9 MTH engines (or is it 11?), I really do not want to change control systems. It has taken me so long to get things working well that starting again with another system design and working through the normal startup/conversion issues puts this at the top of my "avoid" list.

Does anybody know where I can get an MTH WIU ?

try these folks https://tandkhobby.com/50-1034...e-mth-dcs-wifi-unit/

Thanks for the suggestion but they are sold out.

MTH lists about 12 locations on their website, could check with them...

What's the going rate ($) for a fully functional DCS Remote that was used?  I have 3 of them.  I switched to the app on my ipad when the Wifi units came out.  I am seeing some crazy prices on ebay. 

@TK posted:

Does anybody know where I can get an MTH WIU ?

Patrick’s Trains

Thanks to Mr_P I finally found the WIU (after 10 or so calls to various shops) at Hobby House in Hendersonville, NC (nice lady). Unfortunately, I think that was their last one.

@MartyE posted:

The day of the remote is going away.  The app will be the new DCS remote whether you like it or not.  I suspect the other manufacturers will head in this direction as well.  Once all the remotes are sold that's it folks, time to download the app and get a WIU.  I'm not sure how many ways people need to be told this.  To be honest I'd be more concerned about making sure I can get a WIU more than a remote.  Because once the remotes are gone the rush will be on the WIU.

Marty,

I much prefer using the remote because just by feel you can control the trains without having to take your eyes away from them and look at the screen. Understand both MTH and Lionel want out of the remote business.

One thing no one has answered, will you be able to "Super TIU" the new WiFi only TIU's?  You cannot with the current TIU add on correct?

As the the new "MTH Trains" (or whatever it will be called) without a sale Mike get$ zero dollar$ so there is most likely a buyer waiting for the current catalog items to be delivered. The DCS part of the business, the Proto2 to Proto3 replacement boards they have been out of for months alone would keep them in business for years.

The Train Loft in NC, has them.

http://www.trainloft.com/

@BobbyD posted:

Marty,

I much prefer using the remote because just by feel you can control the trains without having to take your eyes away from them and look at the screen. Understand both MTH and Lionel want out of the remote business.

One thing no one has answered, will you be able to "Super TIU" the new WiFi only TIU's?  You cannot with the current TIU add on correct?

As the the new "MTH Trains" (or whatever it will be called) without a sale Mike get$ zero dollar$ so there is most likely a buyer waiting for the current catalog items to be delivered. The DCS part of the business, the Proto2 to Proto3 replacement boards they have been out of for months alone would keep them in business for years.

I don’t disagree but I see the writing on the wall.

@amtrack5899 posted:

What type of amazon fire tablet did you buy. I see they have several types 7 , 8 10 etc. I believe older iPhones will not support the lionel app. Will the amazon tablets work for the lionel app? Do these tablets use the android or apple version of the lionel and DCS apps?

My Fire tablets are 7 - just wanted something cheap to do the job.  Fire uses the Android version - there are a few hoops to jump through to load the app, but there are threads on here and it's not difficult.  Can't speak to the Lionel app.

@Mallard4468 posted:

My Fire tablets are 7 - just wanted something cheap to do the job.  Fire uses the Android version - there are a few hoops to jump through to load the app, but there are threads on here and it's not difficult.  Can't speak to the Lionel app.

Yep, need to install some google programs once, so you can run android apps, but hey, it works... I find it's easier to use than my phone, i.e. larger print for us optically challenged seniors  - LOL

@Daniel Meckstroth posted:

Since MTH is going out of business and they have not made the DCS hand held controllers, they are not available. Retailers have been told some more are coming, but when?  The originally sold for around $150.00, but e bay is listing one for $450.00. If one wears out, what are the options other than going with the new phone/i pad controls. Promises are made that parts and repair will be maintained, but I am not putting much confidence in that. Unless a buyer can be found, MTH owners may have to figure out how to run trains!

Actually, they did make them. I bought two of them a couple of months ago from Patrick's Trains when they were shipped to the dealers.

Pat

It is my understanding that supply is sold out as dealers cannot get them and have been  told to expect another shipment, so they are taking names, comprising a waiting list.

I have both WIU and remotes. Got a remote at  bargain last year at train meet. price ( good reason meets will continue).   Is MTH going to make WIUs in the future? 

@Art Lites posted:

I have both WIU and remotes. Got a remote at  bargain last year at train meet. price ( good reason meets will continue).   Is MTH going to make WIUs in the future?

Is MTH going to make anything in the future? As of right now, it appears their doors are still closing, so most likely the answer to your question is "no."

The have announced the latest version of the TIU, which is essentially the TIU and WIU in one device. This new TIU also is not compatible with the handheld remote, so if you use it, your only option is to run your trains with a phone or tablet.

@BlueComet400 posted:

The have announced the latest version of the TIU, which is essentially the TIU and WIU in one device. This new TIU also is not compatible with the handheld remote, so if you use it, your only option is to run your trains with a phone or tablet.

Yup, I'm ready to see when they release this newest and probably last version under MTH. They should have offered this version from the start as well as the WIU for anyone already having a TIU.