By using the Commander, you can only run one train per track/remote. If you want to run 3 engines, you will need 3 entire commander sets. With the full system, you can run 99 engines at a time via the same remote, have access to all features unlike the Commander which gives access to only a handful, only need one remote, run TMCC/LEgacy and Conventional engines as well, etc, etc, etc. 

Since I am not familiar with the Commander set-up, can I run two diesel engines as a double headed unit on one track using the Commander?

I have the full DCS TIU & AIU system, so I know what the DCS can do. But if I were to buy the Commander say at a train show would I be getting a good system or not? Part of the reason I ask is that I have four tracks that I am running, two with DCS and two without DCS.

Lee F.

By using the Commander, you can only run one train per track/remote.

Really? That's news to me.

You may be confusing the DCS Commander with the DCS Remote Commander, a completely different device.

Major differences are:

• No lashups
• Only 10 or 15 engines (I forget exactly which) rather than 99
• No walk around control
• Fewer available DCS features
• DC-only output
• One DCS channel vs. 4

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Barry

It seems to me that as I peruse the forum there are always issue with the systems running DCS Systems. I don't recall seeing many issues with the Commander. Are the System issues"cockpit problems" or hardware problems?

I realize that the Commander comes in second to the System feature wise.

Can the train features (sounds) be upgraded/changed when using the Commander? Can multiple trains run on the same layout simultaneously? Is the Commander by nature simpler to use and trouble free because of limited features?

Well, the commander is limited as to it's power handling capability, I believe about 100 watts, the manual says 6A max.  It's limited to 10 locomotives stored.  Finally, the commander puts out DC to the track, regardless of the input power.  Obviously, this precludes running any locomotive that depends on AC with the PS/2-PS/3 locomotives on the track.  Also, the 6A will limit you to a couple of locomotives running at the same time.

The full DCS system is obviously more capable.

So I would do better with buying or adding a second DCS TIU unit then using the Commander? At least that is how I am reading into this, the Commander if I am correct puts out D.C. voltage to the track. 

I have three PS-2 engines by MTH and might be buying another PS-2 or PS-3 engine in the next year.

Lee F.

Doug,

I don't recall seeing many issues with the Commander. Are the System issues"cockpit problems" or hardware problems?

In my opinion...  

The great majority of DCS problems that show up on the forum are mostly due to operators either not reading the associated documentation closely or just making mistakes. Most of the mistakes involve incorrect wiring or less-than-excellent track work.

Of the remaining "legitimate" problems, of which there aren't all that many, most are due to physical issues with either engines or DCS components. The remaining handful are due to a few reasonably well-known bugs in the DCS software.

 

Can the train features (sounds) be upgraded/changed when using the Commander? Can multiple trains run on the same layout simultaneously? 

 

Yes and yes.

Is the Commander by nature simpler to use and trouble free because of limited features?

That's hard to say. It's a newer, simpler unit with fewer features and functions, and no wireless capability.

Again, these are my opinions based on my experiences beta testing DCS and answering questions on the forum. Others may have different opinions.

Lee,

So I would do better with buying or adding a second DCS TIU unit then using the Commander?

Yes.

Barry,

Thank you for answerring my questions about the newer style Commander by MTH.

A sort of side note about command control systems, be sure your lighted passenger  cars can take the contsant 18 to 21 volts. I had a Lionel lighted caboose short out at the center roller pick-up area and I thought that my PS-2 engine was acting up.

Anytime a command control engine acts up, run it by itself(no freight or passenger cars with it) and see if it still has the problem.

Lee F.

I use the DCS Commander 50-1028 to run my engine and subways and as it is not the full system, it does do a good job at running the engines but the 5 amp limit does hurt alittle. It depends on what kind the engines you are running, how many add on lighted passenger cars and how fast you run the engines before the 5 amps is reached. I don't run my trains that fast (excepted for cleaning the track) so the commander works good for me. Is it easy to hook up? yes It will run all ps3 o gauge and ps3 ho engines as well as ps2 engines with the 3-volt board. I haven't had any problems with the system excepted for the thumb wheel becoming non responsive sometime do to old age. Basically what you can run on the z-1000 power supply is about what you can run on the commander -1 amp. As for changing sound files and upgrades, I have not been able to do this as the DCS loader program that I have only lets me update the commander system. In the video I tried to do a review of the commander. Not the best video as i'm not good at video recording but it does give some info on the system.

The next video is on the remote commander.

I am on a very limited budget.  I usually have to sell things on Ebay and try and trade up to add to my Train habit.  I got lucky this year with several items I was able to sell and generate some cash.  Still with the budget, I picked up a used DCS remote and TIU for $200 and a Railking Daylight with the three cars with an add on car for $188.00 it has a PS2 (3 volt).  I am certainly happy that I did not go with the commander, as for $50.00 more I have the TIU.    My son loves the microphone feature, he and his friend wouldn't turn it off, they had many announcements of their own.  I have four loops - three trains, one Superstreets and I have an elevated bump trolley.  I am probably going to run my conventional loops on the the Variable Channels off the TIU.  I can say that the speed control on the PS2 engine is by far the best thing.  I have yet to built a grade on my layout because it is a pain to run conventionally, now with DCS my next layout will have a grade change.  I take some risks on used purchases, but I would still be completely conventional if I didn't.  I just don't see the commander at $150, really worth it in the long run if you are running O gauge. 

Howard,

THANK YOU for the time and effort doing the DCS Commander. It was a huge help. Hope I can return the favor.

You're Welcome

Doug;

Welcome to the world of Command Control

It's a whole additional world of goodies on your layout.

Now, as to Commander or Full DCS?

Go the Full DCS, it's a great help to walk to a problem with the remote in hand and work around it.

And the price is not all that much better MSRP $230 VS $330.

Sure, it's another $100, but you get 4 channels at 10amps each VS 1 at 6 amps, 99 engines stored vs 10, and remote control. It does not come with the actual brick but those are widely available and You probably have one already.

Bricks are not that costly And the TIU can take 4 of them at 10 amps each, that's more than a Z-1000 brick can put out! Some folks are using the Lionel 180W bricks because of that.  Feel free to mix N match as long as you have a good fuse in line.

You can start with only one brick and add as you expand. I did just that. I have 2 Z-1000 bricks and a Z-750 brick now. Only got the 2nd Z-1000 brick this winter.

I started with just the Z-750 brick (from a starter set) jumpered into 2 TIU inputs. 

TMack;

Yes, Good speed control is a fantastic addition to trains. Wait till a heavy consist is pushing that engine down hill and it goes into DRIFT sounds the first time.

And If you think that PS2 engine runs slow you should see the new PS3 Imperial Northerns.  Mine will run smooth at  !!!  1 SMPH  !!!.  Holy Cow !

All my PS2's are 2 or 3 SMPH for steady smooth motion, but not this baby.

Does the DCS commander come with a brick?  I was under the impression it did not include any power supply.  No mention of any included power supply on the MTU product page.  However, the MSRP of the DCS Commander is $149.95, not $230.

The DCS Commander is 149.99 without power supply. There is one that comes with a z-1000 power supply, that one cost 229.99. You can find both cheaper on amazon and ebay. Full system 329.99 with no power supply, Buy your own z-4000 power supply for 399.99 for the full system. Not worth the money at this time for me.

gunrunnerjohn,

   Can't remember just how the Commander was originally packaged when it 1st came out, there may have been a brick with it.  I remember deciding to go with the entire DCS package when I made my decission.  I believe what you are quoting price wise, was a later cost.   I got so much more by choosing the entire system.  During the 1st release of DCS,  because a lot of us had never had a DCS before there was fair sized learning curve, especially to the 1st engineering when both Barrys book and the OGR Video Guide to DCS were not available.   Now as Barry indicated most all the problems are of an individual educational nature or an individual train problem, not an actual system type problem.   I am not kidding about giving anything to have Barry's book available when DCS 1st came out,

there were nights I would have killed for it.  We had to figure it all out by trail and error, then with the addition of the OGR Video guide, where you can punch up Norn on the video, for a visual education and then use Barry's book for further details track side, as we build our layout,  things became a lot easier.   I may have been one of the 1st guys to use a ZW with the DCS and ofcourse nobody really understood that the 10 Amp breakers would be needed, can still remember the long

educational phone call to Barry when I blew the 1st TIU fuse.  We were really lucky to have Barry around back then, he probably needed two secretaries and an assistant, he received so many phone calls from us.  The Commander is a nice little start but the entire system is much better, if you are really into remote control, especially with the AIU and remote switch control and Route programming.

PCRR/Dave 

I'm looking into the DCS commander #50-1029 with the 100w power supply to run my two MTH proto2 engines{3 car zephyr set and the 0-8-0 switcher}. Is this all that I'd need for these...I what easy access to the CVs{on/off/volume of sounds} while running the engines one at a time...small planned layout. I wish there was a way to have the unit control an AC output for my K-line and Lionel engines too but I can't expect it to do everything well I guess. 

Yeah Barry, they{MTH} don't do the AC thing at all when it comes to DCS. I was thinking were it possible to convert my K-Line and regular Lionel engine to taking DC that it'd be worth the hassle of doing that so I could run just the commander set up in off DCS mode for those when they're on track...only the 2 engines to convert if one doesn't include my 1 RMT Beep and soon to be A-B-A Beefs. I don't have a large consist of engines to play with like most folks, but we're good with what I've got. 

Hey, while I've got your attention, can I ask a question...I'm planning on the purchase of the DCS commander w/100w power pack...no remote needed here...can I also include an AC transformer to the track at the same time but only use one or the other? All I have at the moment is a pair of cw80s for that task...would both being wired to the track cause an issue even though only one of them is being used at a time, or would I have to disconnect the track power from one while using the other...rookie DCS guy here. I only want the commander for the ease of CV setting rather than the "click and clank via throttle" method. 

they{MTH} don't do the AC thing at all when it comes to DCS

That's not true. The DCS TIU and remote can handle conventional control using variable AC through the Variable channels.

can I also include an AC transformer to the track at the same time but only use one or the other?

Yes, you can, as long as you only use one or the other.

a pair of cw80s for that task...would both being wired to the track cause an issue even though only one of them is being used at a time

Wiring both to the track at the same time is a recipe for disaster.

or would I have to disconnect the track power from one while using the other

That's correct. Regardless, the CW80 has a bad reputation in general, and particularly with MTH engines.

Burlington Route,

   IMO the CW-80 transformers are a base entry type transformer, which do not play well with DCS, up grade your power supply as soon as you can.

PCRR/Dave

Barry, thanks so far...really, but I'm a DCS dummy, I don't know what the "TIU" is actually for. Sorry... 

I'd guess that the commander/brick won't run the variable AC thru it - will it?...I'd then need the TIU to do that, right?  The system I wanted is the commander base unit and the 100w power brick...not the smaller hand remote system....and never thought I'd need a TIU for my needs...your going to make me rethink that aren't you?! 

Dave, a few folks have already told me to keep the two...MTH engines and the cw80...far apart. Lately I question the cw80 as even a decent lighting power supply, as I found out tonight my spare cw80 now has no power output...solid green light & fan...but nothing in the way of power fixed or variable...nice! Think I'm going to cruise ebay and see about a nice used 100+watt lionel AC transformer...I've about had it with these two cw80s...more trouble than they're worth.

All I really want is an MTH friendly controller that easily programs the sounds on my two MTH engines I have{zephyr and 0-8-0}...not fond of the click/clank throttle mentod...I want to be a button pusher...that would be easier! 

I am thinking if I have a visitor, it would be nice to have two or more remotes, the remote commander is very affordable. I do understand that I can only run 1 train along with the remote commander. Can I have for example one regular dcs full system  and 2 remote commanders each running a train?

George,

I do understand that I can only run 1 train along with the remote commander.

That's correct, however, that engine must be set (or reset) to MTH Factory Settings in order to work with the DCS Remote Commander (DCSRC). The DCSRC and a remote/TIU cannot operate the same engine.

Can I have for example one regular dcs full system  and 2 remote commanders each running a train?

You can operate as many engines with the full DCS as you like simultaneously. However, you can only operate one DCSRC at a time.

If you have 2 DCSRC's on two loops each with an engine, both engines will respond to commands from both DCSRCs.

I'd bite the bullet and pick up more remotes for the DCS system.

Thanks Barry and gunrunnerJohn good advice. Do you mean the

MTH 50-1002 DCS Remote Handheld? $120 price range for one?

Yep, if you keep an eye out, they occasionally show up used, I've gotten them for as little as $50.

I thought I would revive this thread as opposed to starting a new one, because I found it very helpful in my deliberations over my next step with DCS.  I want to also thank Howard for his video reviews, they were very helpful, and thanks of course to Barry, John, Russell and others who have provided information regarding this system.

I have a couple quick questions regarding the DCS Commander (50-1028 or 50-1029 w/power supply, not to be confused with the 'DCS Remote Commander').

1) Is there any odometer or chronometer features available under the DCS Commander?

2) Regarding DC only Output: Will MTH PS3 engines operate under the conventional [CONV] mode/button of the DCS Commander just fine?

3) Regarding DC only Output again: Has anyone tried running modern Williams TBII engines under the conventional [CONV] mode?  (I've found conflicting information as to whether or not Williams TBII will run okay under DC).

4) Regarding Firmware:  Is there a way to check the firmware version on the DCS Commander, and/or have there been any updates to the firmware?

For the foreseeable future my layout is very space constrained (4'x8'), with two isolated loops (inner O31 & outer O42).  I was able to pick up a DCS Commander with the 100w brick very reasonably in the secondary market.  I really appreciate all the information in this thread and on this forum.  I also do realize it is much more limited than a full DCS w/TIU system (no. of engines, DC only, amperage limit, features, etc.), but it suits my needs for now (desire to access more DCS features, collapsible/modular layout with simple wiring, and ability to run DCS Remote Commander on one isolated loop while also running DCS Commander on the other, and access to Factory Reset & and sound file transfer capability).

Thanks in advance for any information that can be provided!

Robert

Robert,

 

1) Is there any odometer or chronometer features available under the DCS Commander?

 

No, there is not.

2) Regarding DC only Output: Will MTH PS3 engines operate under the conventional [CONV] mode/button of the DCS Commander just fine?

Yes, as will 3 volt PS2 engines. However, 5 volt PS2 engines will have trouble with spontaneous/continuous horn/whistle blowing.

3) Regarding DC only Output again: Has anyone tried running modern Williams TBII engines under the conventional [CONV] mode?  (I've found conflicting information as to whether or not Williams TBII will run okay under DC).

I haven't a clue.

4) Regarding Firmware:  Is there a way to check the firmware version on the DCS Commander

I don not believe so, however, I could be mistaken.

have there been any updates to the firmware?

Yes, there have. They'er available on MTH's protosound2.ccom web site.

The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition has an entire addendum that discusses HO operation, including the a complete discussion of the DCS Commander and how it may may have its software upgraded.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Running any conventional locomotive on DC will result in either continuous horn or bell, depending on which polarity it is on the tracks.  So, the answer for the Williams is no, unless you like continuous sounds.

Thank you John!  I had started to gather that reading some past posts, but also came across a thread where folks were discussing DC as a track power source, and got the impression from some of the posts that "depending on the polarity", as you mentioned, that the horn/bell would either sound continuously or by switching the polarity it would give "no sound" and one directional running (unlessl you add a "double pole, double throw" switch).

I wasn't sure how many people would have tried running Williams on DC, in addition to running Williams on DC with the DCS Commander conventional [CONV] mode as the source.  Main thing of course I want to avoid is damaging a Williams engine and it's electronics or the DCS Commander by experimenting.

Robert

I don't think you'll damage the Williams by testing with DC, but since it has both the bell and the horn, you will get one or the other as it runs. 

Many thanks for the reply John!  I apologize I'm so long winded.

Yes sir, that was the conclusion I was reaching while reading and researching, but I think it was Mr. Allen out of Australia who had posted that someone there was running Williams on a DC track power source layout, and as long as they got the polarity correct it was possible to run with no sound instead of continuous sound.

However, I was still under the impression, one polarity will give you continuous horn and the reverse will give continuous bell.  From what I've been able to gather here in the OGR Forum, this is because a DC(+) signal is used for one, and a DC(-) is used for the other.  Basically coinciding with what you described John.

Now an additional bit of info I picked up from a post by Dave Hikel is that when the DCS Commander is operating in the conventional [CONV] mode, the Direction [DIR] button actually works as a DPDT switch reversing polarity.  In fact he said there is a DPDT switch actually built into the Commander...makes sense for HO operation.  This seemed evident when I ran my PS3 F-3 in conventional with the Commander yesterday after reading it was okay.

When I went back to run the F-3 in [DCS] mode on the Commander, after powering off in Conventional, it initially gave 'start-up' sounds immediately, without any prompting, without the light working, and would not respond to any commands.  Based on David H's tips, I went back into conventional [CONV] mode and hit the direction [DIR] button to reverse the polarity (I had changed it while running F-3 in conventional).  So then after turning power off then on to the Commander and putting it back in [DCS] mode the F-3 returned to correct/normal DCS operation (start-up only after prompting, light working, responding to commands, etc).

So looong story shorter , if there is no concern for damagin the Williams engine or it's electronics, then I probably just need to experiment with it to find out.  Although it's not like I intend to use the DCS Commander for a lot of conventional running...just curiosity.

Back to a couple additional questions on the Commander

After skim read through Barry's book and the Manual, a couple additional questions came to mind that I could not find the answer to (I may have just missed it):

1)  I was under the impression the DCS Commander could also update engine sound files, is this true or is a TIU required?

2) Can you use the DC track output to make more than one power 'drop' on the track?

(This is probably a simplistic question, but given my limited electrical knowledge I wasn't sure if there was any advantage or disadvantage to it)

Thanks again for all the help and advice!

Robert

Per new question #2, yes, you can add more power taps....daisy chained as I recall..to aid in weak signal areas.

Making, have you ever considered adding an ERR board to your engine...though that system is lionel based, it does work too for DCS...I have yet to get one and confirm this but the DCS manual will play with the lionel system "if" you also have a cab-1 box added...so you'd need 2 things, a new or used cab-1 and an ERR control board for multi remote control operation...or find a somewhat cheap PS-2 board- PS1 won't do multiple control via the commander system. 

Since he's a DCS user, the PS/2 upgrade kit is the way to go to upgrade a PS/1 rig.  It ends up a bit cheaper than the ERR Cruise Commander and RailSounds Commander package and comes with everything you need to do the upgrade.

Thanks again John!  You're right, nothing mentioned about updating sound files with the DCS Commander in the manual , nor anything in the DCS Companion, nor on the Protosound2.com website, nor in the Loader program documentation that I've skimmed through.  Pretty much everything says at a minimum you need a TIU.  I just wondered with the serial port on the unit whether it might be a possibility, but I guess that is only for updating firmware.

Thanks to you and Burlington Route for the tips on adding a drop.  I need to read up on what is meant by isolating for drops.  I just wasn't sure if it worked the same or had the same considerations as full DCS drops since the Commander only outputs DC vs AC.  I've obviously got more reading to do.

Burlington Route, I've seen mention of the ERR cruise and prices of PS2 upgrades, but I don't have any PS1 engines, only PS3.  From some cursory searching it seems cost prohibitive to add either to a Williams.  I do have a Railking IR Remote & Lock-on setup (used with the Loco-sound sets) that allows me to remotely control the running and sounds on my Williiams conventional engines.  Given my limited space it's easy enough to switch the outer loop between conventional and DCS 'Remote' Commander, and keep the inner loop with a siding and reverse for the DCS Commander (hopefully without taxing it's 6amp limit).  Also from the little I understand, makes it a little easier to not have to 'isolate' or 'block' those two switched sections if I only run DCS engines with the DCS Commander.

For the size and collapsible nature of my layout plans the DCS Commander is well suited, and will hopefully ease me up the DCS learning curve for the opportunity to expand the layout when it comes.  I was really just kicking around the ability to run conventional Williams on the inner loop with the Commander.  This is a pic of my very simplistic, readily collapsible 4'x8' layout plan for now.

Sorry, I realize this is starting to tangent off into the details of my layout and not DCS Commander specifically, but there is one more DCS Commander question given the limits of its DC only output, my understanding, and attempting to run Williams conventional engines on the DCS Commander loop.

DCS Commander Question:

Can I have a Z controller & brick set-up on the same loop as the DCS Commander as long as the Commander is turned off (unplugged)?

I assume it is not possible to operate the DCS Commander in "passive mode" like the DCSRC )or is it with a DC power source?), but I also want to be sure having the DCS Commander track connections hooked up while AC power is being fed  through the same loop would not cause a problem.

Many thanks again gentlemen!

Robert

The wiring considerations for DCS is for the 3.27mhz DCS carrier, so it should be the same for the AC or DC track power.

I would not backfeed AC into the DCS Commander, use a DPDT toggle switch to switch the AC transformer or DCS Commander onto the rails.  I don't know for 100% certainty that it would be a problem, but given that you have a device that is basically a DC power regulator, I'm guessing it would not be a good idea!

Passive mode is another thing that I don't see mentioned anywhere, and I'm presuming that's not an option as well.