DCS to Conventional - Locked in Reverse?

Here's the link

https://ogrforum.com/t...-run-in-conventional

Thanks. Guess they are suppose to do it...screwy way of doing things but whatever!

I think it's a PS3 bug.  Haven't heard of it happening in PS2.  It happened to me and I never run my DCS locos in conventional, at least not intentionally.

It happened to me with PS2, but only once.

Robert,

I think it's a PS3 bug

It's not a "bug". There's nothing broken. Rather, it's a setting that's set wrong. Why it's set wrong is uncertain.

To me, if something is broken, that's not a bug.  To me, a bug is some inherent, internal defect which causes an item or a program to do things which are not intended.  If a program  changes settings by itself, that's a bug.

Here we go again, borne aloft on a flight of semantics.  The key question is why does it happen, and apparently happen more on PS3 than PS2.  And does it occur due to a bug (as I defined it*) in the software, or in the hardware design.

*'''When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'"  Lewis Caroll, Through the Looking Glass, Ch 6.

Robert,

 If a program changes settings by itself, that's a bug.

Hows do you know a person didn't set it wrong? If it happened all by itself, which is extremely unlikely, it would recur. It does not recur all by itself, so why do you think it happened all by itself?

A much more likely reason is either it was set wrong in the engine's firmware or it was done by a dealer/tech while testing the engine.

Regardless, it's not any kind of a software or hardware defect, which is the definition of a "bug". It's simply a setting that's been set wrong. Once you reset it correctly, it's resolved. No software or hardware change required.

*'''When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'"  Lewis Caroll, Through the Looking Glass, Ch 6.

Let me know when you get back to planet Earth.  

Hows do you know a person didn't set it wrong? If it happened all by itself, which is extremely unlikely, it would recur. It does not recur all by itself, so why do you think it happened all by itself?

 

A much more likely reason is either it was set wrong in the engine's firmware or it was done by a dealer/tech while testing the engine.

Because I never touched the settings, and it didn't do it for the first month after I placed it in operation.  If, as you correctly say, "why it's set wrong is uncertain," then how can you say for certain that it is not a bug?

Let me know when you get back to planet Earth.

Tomorrow.  I'm in Pennsylvania today.

Robert,

 then how can you say for certain that it is not a bug?

While one can never be certain, the odds are against a bug since software typically just doesn't do stuff randomly. There's always something that triggers an event. If this were a bug, it would have done it from the first time it was run and would do it again after you corrected it. In effect, there would be a pattern.

If it wasn't doing this at first and then began doing it later, something caused it to happen. Based on your layout and who uses it, my guess would be either one of two things:

• Operator error (the grandkids), by randomly pushing buttons (granted, this is less likely for an event such as this one)
• A derailment that caused a short, or a monetary short, that upset the board's processor.

Your 2 possibilities are well-grounded and quite possible, especially the latter.  A derailment spark can have weird effects, even if it does not result in a current exceeding circuit capacity.

With regard to the typicality of software, I do find occasionally that settings change for no apparent reason, like my word processor occasionally resetting itself to place the zip code barcode above the address, rather than below.

It is odd that I don't recall any forumites raising this issue under PS2 (one exception posted above in this thread), but there have been several occurrences under PS3.

Seems there was another recent thread (can't find it) where a new-in-box PS3 engine came locked in either neutral or a direction for conventional.  As the title of thread suggests, SJC seems to get this behavior when going from DCS to conventional.

I find it hard to believe MTH would purposely ship an engine with the conventional direction locked requiring the Whistle & Bell button unlock sequence.  OTOH, some dealers test new-in-box engines before selling them and I'd think would do so in DCS mode. 

I can't imagine anyone having the free-time to do this, but it would be curious to know if it's the mere act of powering the engine in DCS that can lockup the conventional direction, or if you have to actually move the engine in DCS, etc..  Not that anything will come of it but always good to document the behavior as I'm sure this will come up again.

Stan,

Another reason why I don't believe that this issue is a bug, os that it would be much more wide-spread if it were.

I own 4 PS3 steamers, including the same Decapod that had this issue on Robert's layout, and have not seen the described symptoms. One difference, however, is that mine came from MTH directly rather than via a dealer

I also have 2 more on order so, if it's wide-spead, I may be seeing it soon.  

Barry, isn't wasn't my Decapod that was locked into reverse.  It was the PRR MU set.  The Decapod surfaced the grounding issue addressed in another thread.  It hasn't done it again, but then, I don't run it in conventional. 

Stan's experience is interesting.  I'm sure I could duplicate Stan's scenario and see what happens.

Thanks for the info. Just so I followed everything accordingly, it is a "known" issue and PS3 engines sometimes need to be reset when moving from DCS to Conventional and vice versa. 

Another note - today at the show, I ran my PS3 Dash 8. No issues. Came home and tried it conventionally. It started up in reverse (front lights out, back on, etc) BUT would not move. Cycling through, nothing would change and it wouldn't move. Do a feature reset (via transformer bell/whistle buttons. My understanding is that is a feature, not factory reset. Please correct if wrong) and it works fine. 

My understanding is that is a feature, not factory reset

It's not a Factory Reset since it doesn't reset the engine's DCS ID#.

It does everything that a DCS Feature Reset does except the medium is different, i.e., bell/whistle presses instead of a DCS command.

SJC, Doing the reset via transformer whistle and bell buttons, with DCS signal not present, is called, by MTH VP Jeff Strank who advised me to try it, a "conventional reset."

(edited to correct the spelling of Mr. Strank's name)

I know for a fact that the conventional reset has some differences from the feature reset under DCS, at least for some engines.  I had a PTC trolley that I replaced the 5V board with a 3V board and the station announcements didn't work.  I had tried feature and factory resets with DCS, but the fix was a conventional reset.  After that, the sounds were back for conventional and DCS operation.

Robert,

"Strank", not Strang.

Thanks Barry, those quasi-adjoining keys are a problem.

Thanks. 

So is it a known "issue" or.......? Since two engines did it with two somewhat different results, I would imagine it must be more of a PS3 issue/feature than a certain engine issue. 

Others have reported PS3 engines being locked in conventional...whether it be locked in neutral, in fwd, or rev.  Most guys are understandably satisfied to find you can unlock it using the transformer Bell-Whistle feature-reset and move on.

AFAIK you're the first to provide the insight that this conventional lockup can/might be caused by operating the engine in DCS then going to conventional. 

I'm not sure about the vice versa case.  I don't recall reports that operating the engine in conventional then going to DCS requires a DCS reset to unlock the engine for DCS operation.

It seems like there is a building base of PS-3 engines where the memory for conventional operations is not effected by DCS memory resets and vice versa.

You should do a factory reset with DCS.  Power off.   Go to a conventional set up and do the feature reset conventionally.  At that point operating in DCS and than returning to Conventional should not have the engine return to locked out in neutral or any direction.

If it does, I would like to hear about it.  G

I've been noticing a few things lately. I've been switching back and forth from DCS and conventional for testing, etc on my layout. My two PS3s do/have done the following going from DCS to Conventional only. I should note no issues with PS2 going back and forth. 

PS3 0-6-0. DCS to Conventional

Turn power on and wait, once headlight comes on (without sound, caps charging), engine storms into forward than immediately into reverse and keeps going at Nascar speeds until Caps charge then it operates normally. Was able to do a conventional reset and it operated normally. 

PS3 Dash-8. Started up locked in neutral. Did a factory reset and no change in sound volume, etc. Speed control was turned off (NOT something I did) but operated as it should. Tried another reset, no change. Shut down and let it sit a minute. Restart, everything works as it should. 

Based on the perfect operation in conventional (post reset) and DCS, I suspect there is something weird that happens going from DCS to conventional. Next time I run a PS3 on DCS and go Conventional, I'll remember to do a Factory Reset via remote and see what happens. I'd be curious to get others opinions. 

The Dash 8 will go in for a minor repair within the next few weeks. I'll have to ask my repair guy (MTH cert'd) for his input and if he has seen a similar thing.