Delaware & Hudson RR scale passenger cars in O ::::: need Help:::::: Need your feedback::::::

I'd go for individual car types and have them custom painted. You can contact Christine Braden at cbraden77@comcast.net.

Either Weaver has or Atlas is offering the Osgood Bradley cars in D&H.  They are not perfect, but close for the 4 ACF coaches of 1939 D&H reconditioned for use on the Adirondack. 

Several of the other cars were former Rio Grande cars.  Unfortunately, there aren't good choices out there right now unless you are willing to do some repaints.  GGD's modernized heavyweights with 6 wheel trucks would work well for coaches 1001 and 1012, but again would need repainting.  For a later era train, the Atlas Amtrak CZ dome is close and it ran on the train in Amtrak colors. 

Look for the book "Delaware & Hudson Passenger Trains - The Final Decade" by Doug Lezette.  It's a great resource for D&H passenger services from the late 60's to Amtrak.  All the cars are shown. 

Good luck!  A very interesting and unique train full of great eclectic cars.

Thanks for the feed back Jon and Gennisfan  -

I looked at the Atlas cars, but the roofs are corrugated and I would need smooth roofs.

The atlas cars do offer some kitbashing opportunities though. 

How about the New Lionel 21 inch C&O cars. I might have to look a little closer at these?

The Lionel cars maybe a good candidate.  They do share a lot of the same details.  Interestingly some of the D&RGW cars that went to D&H were built for the C&O but they never took delivery of them.  They were Pullman Standard cars.  Also the EL sold four ACF smooth sided coaches of Phoebe Snow vintage to the D&H.  Another option for you.  

What I like about the D&H as they got serious about improving their passenger service at a time when most railroads wanted to dump it.  The consists were consistent in color but all sorts of cars were used and the trains were never truly matched.

This was the dome car I was referring to:

http://railroad.net/articles/c.../media/dh-adrndk.jpg

As Jonathan mentioned, a GGD Heavyweight observation should cover your heavyweight observation requirement. You'll just have to pay to have it repainted and there's nothing wrong with that. Manufacturers can't make everything we want, so sometimes we just have to do it ourselves. 

Another way to get what you need is to visit Union Station products. They sell car sides and other things to build your own cars, and they have exactly what you need. You'll just have to find an acceptable donor car to use the frame, trucks, and other essentials. They also have fluting for any extra details you want. Check them out here: https://unionstationproducts.c...mp-o-scale-core-kits

J Daddy posted:

Thanks for the feed back Jon and Gennisfan  -

I looked at the Atlas cars, but the roofs are corrugated and I would need smooth roofs.

The atlas cars do offer some kitbashing opportunities though. 

How about the New Lionel 21 inch C&O cars. I might have to look a little closer at these?

 

That's not a Lionel car. I built this using an old American Lightweight Car Co. kit for the core, Union Station Products car sides, and K-Line trucks. Kit building pretty much the only way to get a scale length C&O/D&RGW/D&H Pullman Standard car as no 3 rail manufacturer makes this style car. Pecos River made these in 2 rail brass but at around $800 each!

The Lionel C&O, 21" cars are awful representations of a P-S car. They started with a Budd car with a fluted roof and covered up the flutes above the windows with a piece of metal.

MTH 60 foot streamlined cars look like they were based off of the C&O P-S car order and would work if you can use the short cars. Otherwise you're only real choice is kit/scratchbuilding and that will take a long time and a lot of patience.

Ken

Ken,

Thank you for clarifying! When I did a search for Lionel 21 inch passenger cars... this photo came up !!!

Great work BTW!

GG1 4877 posted:

The Lionel cars maybe a good candidate.  They do share a lot of the same details.  Interestingly some of the D&RGW cars that went to D&H were built for the C&O but they never took delivery of them.  They were Pullman Standard cars.  Also the EL sold four ACF smooth sided coaches of Phoebe Snow vintage to the D&H.  Another option for you.  

What I like about the D&H as they got serious about improving their passenger service at a time when most railroads wanted to dump it.  The consists were consistent in color but all sorts of cars were used and the trains were never truly matched.

This was the dome car I was referring to:

http://railroad.net/articles/c.../media/dh-adrndk.jpg

 

Jon  -

In the photo, isn't this a later fan trip photo with an Amtrak dome car? Or did the D&H really have this dome car in its consist at one time?

Using a photo off of Marty's post I can see the fluted roofs now... which is just not going to fly...

So poking around in the Union Station Product link  - there could be hope!

Just would have to pick a donor car.... then purchase a core kit:

then pick the appropriate or close approximate car sides...

And the paint them...

Other than the book, does anyone have any photos of the car consist?

This head end  / baggage / mail car may be the first step I take...

The Amtrak dome may have been there because the Adirondack used D&H equipment for some time. It was a joint Amtrak and D&H train until Amtrak took over completely.

There is an interesting history on the dome car.  It was a leased car from Amtrak and part of regular service.  It wore it's phase I Amtrak paint scheme, but the D&H to promote their brand repainted it a few times until Amtrak ordered them to paint it back to Amtrak.  Here are some examples. 

D&H Dome Version 1

D&H Amtrak Hybrid Paint

When I have some free time from work, let me scan some of the better images from my reference book for you.  It is a wonderful resource for D&H passenger fans. 

J Daddy posted:

Using a photo off of Marty's post I can see the fluted roofs now... which is just not going to fly...

Forgot about the Lionel fluting on the roof.  I should have known better as this was the main complaint about the cars.  It's a shame really because they had potential for you!

Probably the Williams 72 footers (18 inches) come closest to what you're looking for without having to do a total rebuild and repaint.

Bogie

  a couple Weaver 5 car sets on the bay for sale...

                     maybe change out the trucks, & put in tinted windows...

The coach you can scratch build from Union Station products. They have 52 seat coach sides.

The Atlas car is very close.  I was incorrect in some of my prior information. 

Here is the information on leased CP dome cars.  If you can find one, GGD did these cars as part of the Canadian set.  They were offered as separate sale cars as well in CP, CP Rail, and VIA. 

These are the dome cars leased from Amtrak.  Read the text.  Pretty funny. These were former Wabash cars.

This is shaping up to be a fun project for a very unique train!  I wish I had acquired a few D&H 3rd Rail PA's when they were still available now.

J Daddy posted:

OldBogie posted:

Probably the Williams 72 footers (18 inches) come closest to what you're looking for without having to do a total rebuild and repaint.

Bogie

I think a couple of the cars are usable out of the set. But it looks like each car is going to have to be targeted and modeled to do an effective consist.  The D&H has such an eclectic array of cars that this may be a pick and choose task from different manufactures.

1) the Baggage car is definitely a Union Station Kit  scratch build.

2) The dome maybe an easy pick from an Atlas car - with a minor repaint

3) the end observation a Lionel Heavy weight repaint- I have a few in the parts box

4) coach ?

5) sleeper?

6) diner?

hmmm .... DRG pass cars are very similar to this one...

 

 

They are not only similar, they are the same cars.  :-)  D&H bought them from the D&RGW.

Great information here guys. 

So I could make a coach too from Union Station Products eh? 

So does anyone have a typical consist list of cars say around the time they ran the PA's?

Were the domes part of this consist?

This reminds me of the Model Railroad days where they would look at Pike sized passenger trains and provide information for a modeled consist that would look good on the layout. 

Jon  and Genesis any other valuable information you could send my way about the D&H passenger consist would be great! 

You have to remember the PAs lasted for a really long time, into the 1970s. I think they were PA4s, but I'm not sure. I know I have seen videos of a D&H Adirondack led by a lone PA taken in the 70s.

I can post info on a typical consist of the Adirondack tomorrow.  The train ran in various configurations during its run in the 70's. 

The PAs did all of the work on this train.  Four were purchased out of the scrap line at GE as former ATSF units.  One former New Haven unit was bought for parts.  technically they are PA2s but MK did a rebuild in 1974 to improve reliability.  D&H in the 70's was a first generation diesel lovers paradise!

From the original C&O order from Pullman Standard, the D&H got five types of cars that they purchased from the Rio Grande.:

1 -  Mail & Express, Plan 7603, D&H # 56

3 - Baggage, Plan 7609, D&H #51, 52, 53

5 - 52 seat coaches, Plan 7600, D&H #21, 22, 23, 24, 25

1 - Lunch Counter/Buffet/Lounge, Plan 7596, D&H #43 Champlain

2 - 44 seat Diner, Plan 7608, D&H #41 Saratoga Inn, 42 Adirondack

I think the D&H also got a P-S combine from the Rio Grande but I can't find the information on it. USP has the five car sides for the cars listed above.

Ken

Depending on the era being modeled, the Adirondack had a few configurations.  A Typical mid 70's version consisted of the Amtrak dome, a diner, and anywhere from two to four coaches.  Not a large train to model at all and would fit on many layouts.  The stainless fluting was removed from the cars in 1975 so they would all be smooth side cars for that era train.   

JDaddy- probably not what you are looking for but I just picked up these from Williams. I'm not a scale nut so they are fine IMHO to pull behind a D&H GP-9 I have.

Amazing the stuff you can learn when you ask a question around here.

GG1 4877 posted:

The Atlas car is very close.  I was incorrect in some of my prior information. 

Here is the information on leased CP dome cars.  If you can find one, GGD did these cars as part of the Canadian set.  They were offered as separate sale cars as well in CP, CP Rail, and VIA. 

These are the dome cars leased from Amtrak.  Read the text.  Pretty funny. These were former Wabash cars.

This is shaping up to be a fun project for a very unique train!  I wish I had acquired a few D&H 3rd Rail PA's when they were still available now.

I thought 3rd Rail was going to do another run of the PA-1's. Are they doing more D&H models?

Jeff C

Did anyone ever offer an interior kit to upgrade the 20-inch Weaver passenger cars?  Seems like it would be easy to install.  Or a kit to convert the older silhouette passenger windows to the later jade green tinted windows?

Weaver did reissue many of its passenger cars later with detailed interiors, but I read a post a year or two ago on this forum which said they had used their ABS Pullman-Bradley car interiors and they did not line up properly with the windows on their 20-inch aluminum cars ...

David

leikec posted:

I thought 3rd Rail was going to do another run of the PA-1's. Are they doing more D&H models?

Jeff C

Jeff,

The PA's will be in the second run by 3rd Rail if enough orders come in.  It is on the list.  I just happen to have my fill from the first run with 2 ATSF ones and a PRR 2 rail version.

J Daddy posted:

So I realized why I never run my Lionel D&H PA diesels... I don't have ANY good looking passenger cars to go with them.

I was looking at some photos of the real cars and trying to sort out a set that will be close?
Lionel's set is out because of the length at 15" . There is just to many things wrong with these.

So maybe MTH is closer? No not really  ... does every set they have, have a dome car?

Hmm, maybe a Weaver set would do? 

naw... the baggage car doors are way too small and these have really dated silhouettes, truck frames, and  thumbtacks and argh...

K line never did  a set, and GGD? Maybe?

So looking at some photos of the real cars... did the cars have silver roofs and some painted light grey?

Are these 21 inch cars? Some appear shorter?

 

Why is there not a good set manufactured set out there?

 

So are there some better passenger cars out there?

Odd that this hobby has been going so long and these cars have been ignored... and don't get me even started on nice set of North Coast Limited cars... so many opportunities!

 

You can always modify the Weaver cars with an interior if the exterior is close enough.

If you are striving for accuracy of corrugations, the old Kasiner extrusions would be perfect if you sand the area above the windows.  It is tough to find extrusions that have not had the windows punched, and there are only a few stock coaches, probably resembling the NYC Empire State.

Also K-Line SP extrusions could be similarly modified.  A lot of work, but chances are that the market for these C&O/DRGW cars is limited.