Die-Cast Boiler Extension?

Sounds like you're wanting to do what the late John Armstrong called "starting from beyond scratch".

Sorry I can't offer any constructive suggestions to solve your problem, but Armstrong's little dictum may give you a hint.

EdKing

May I suggest that you stretch the boiler from the middle?  That way you will not have to rebuild the cab,firebox etc. Might be easier.   Odd-d 

Bob

What is the objective of this project?  Is it to produce a particular model or are you looking for a way to kill some time (and an otherwise good 2-8-0)?

I'd be more concerned about cutting the frame.  The boiler is just along for the ride.

If you are really interested in a rebuilding project take a look at the Northern Pacific W-4 class Mikados.  They were rebuilt from 2-6-2s by replacing the frame and adding a course and combustion chamber to the boiler.  The NP did a few and then decided that while the result was a great improvement over the 2-6-2 it wasn't economically worth while.  As Ed King hinted you might reach similar conclusions.

Ed,

You may be correct.

Odd-d and Bob2,

I did take another look at the boiler last night and it will have to be cut in the middle to save the firebox.

Ted,

I want a model of a Seaboard Q3 Mikado.  It was basically a USRA Light Mike with appliances moved around.  I doubt I'll ever see one of the manufacturers offer one, but they have made unique models in the past so there's always hope

I could buy a model of a USRA Light Mike and modify it, but if I have to do that I'd just as soon modify something I already have.  The 2-8-0 I have has been modified once already, it would not be a problem to keep going, I'm getting quite handy with Dremeling stuff off die-cast boilers!!!

Does anyone offer a plain USRA Light Mike boiler shell (brass?) without all the appliances?  That would be the thing, but I haven't found one yet.

Here's a couple of pix of the SAL Q3:

Anyone care to guess what jobs each of these men had?

Here's my guess (L-R):

Conductor

Fireman

Brakeman

Engineer

Brakeman

I was looking thru my copy of Model Railroaders "Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia-Volume 1" and realized a number of the drawings in it are HO scale.  The Railking 2-8-0 boiler would have to be lengthened at least 2".

This all started when I started working on that Vanderbilt tender, which is a limbo right now (waiting to get parts).

Light Mike and light Pacific might be very close to each other.  Study the drawings, get yourself one Mikado and one Pacific, and put them together.

But your photo indicates that the Seaboard Mike has less of a taper than the USRA locomotives.  Consider the bar rail solution - you can slit the bottom, make any taper you want, and have an exact boiler for your project.

On second thought, that looks a lot like a Harriman Mike.  Look for a Sunset, and just do the cab and flying pumps.  The UP version might even be closer than the SP.

Bob,

Thanks for the input

Prince's book on the Seaboard says the Q3 was "like" the USRA (SAL Q1 class), but that the boiler was larger and heavier, with more heating surface necessary for the Delta trailing truck and Franklin booster.  Sounds more like it's closer to a Heavy Mike.  I need to do more research and check all my ACL/SAL Historical Society mags "Lines South" and the online mag S-CL Modeler for more data.

The Cyclopedia says the boiler diameter for a USRA Light was 86" (ID?) and the Heavy was 96".  Prince's book says the Q3 was 76-5/8" ID and 79" OD.  If the Cyclopedia is correct that makes Prince's data erroneous, but Prince's book has a line drawing with the dimensions while the Cyclopedia doesn't (just states the size in the writeup), although it does have line drawings of both Light and Heavy Mikes (but not all the critical dimensions needed).

This is a long term project anyway, I've still got a 4-6-2 to finish as soon as I get parts in for the engine.

When you specify ID and OD, be sure of what you are talking about.  The boiler itself has  both, but for a model we are interested in the dimension over the lagging, which is typically 4-5" thick.  Cyclopedia info is not guaranteed, but a good side view photo can be scaled to give reasonably close information.  Using somebody else's measurements has led to mass produced and wildly inaccurate models.

Prototype cyclopediae often refer to the actual boiler, and so dimensions are way undersze if you use them directly.

Bob,

Why not find a K LIne USRA light Mikado and rework that into your SAL loco.  You would already have a Mikado mechanism and reasonable boiler?  I have converted a number of the K Line Mikes to 2 rail and the mechanism, although odd with its backward facing motor, runs quite nicely.

Joe Foehrkolb

Thanks Bob and Joe.

I enlarged some online drawings I found to O scale and they're quite large after enlarging.  I found both Light and Heavy Mikes, but I haven't enlarged the Q3 drawing from Prince's book yet.  I have Adobe PhotoDeluxe Home Edition 3.0 and it lets me play around with the size so I can get it to 1/48 scale.

I've seen a couple of K-Line Mikes go on sale, but I'm usually to late and a dollar short by the time I catch it.

I'll keep looking, though.  A brass engine would be easier I think to make the modifications on, but I've only worked on small items in the past.  There's always a learning experience involved it seems

Take a good look at that SAL Q3.  True, it is a modified USRA Light Mike, but the modification includes lengthening the frame - there is more space between the cylinder and the first driver than on the USRA engine.  If you can ignore that, modifying a stock USRA engine is possible, but if you can't, you're in for some heavy frame work; lengthening the main rod/piston rod, the combination lever and the Baker radius rods.  That lengthening was the way to add heating surface to the USRA light boiler.  The presence or absence of the Delta trailer isn't relevant. 

But good luck.  The Q3 was a neat locomotive, and served its master well.

EdKing

Thanks again guys!

I knew this was not going to be an easy conversion, but it sounds like it's almost impossible unless I make everything myself.

I'll look thru the SPL catalog again, I must have missed it when I was ordering some parts last week.

Here's a color photo I found online of Seaboard Mike 435, looks like it's in the scrap line but the headlight looks to be on (or is this a really good painting?):

The smokebox front doesn't appear to be like any I have seen.  Most have a round door(?) with clamps all around it.  This one appears to be oblong (behind the headlight).  I'd like to see one of these without the pumps to see what's behind them.

Any idea what that pipe/tube/hose is going down the boiler from in front of the stack?

You'd see a flat piece of metal with the studs to mount the compressors.  The small oblong smokebox door behind the headlight allows access to the smokebox without removing the compressors.

Not familiar w/Seaboard power, so I'm gonna guess the pipe is a trailing truck booster engine exhaust line.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty!

The 1st photo I posted doesn't show the pipe on that particular engine #438, not sure if the engine didn't have the booster or maybe the pipe is on the other side.

I could make the boiler out of (shudder ) styrene/pvc pipe, but that would take a lot of weight away from the engine and probably as much work as making one from brass.

I'll keep this project on the back burner until I get my Ten-Wheeler finished.

Thanks for the help guys!

Bob

Mounting air compressors on the front of the smokebox was a common practice in the 20s and 30s.  In my neck of the woods both the GN and NP did it.  The C&O was fond of that arrangement as well.

Here is an MTH Great Northern S-2 Class 4-8-4.  Note that the air compressor, smoke box door and headlight arrangement is similar to that of your SAL example.

Take a look at the GN flyer web site for more views of GN power with this arrangement.

http://www.gnflyer.com/Locos%20Heavy.html

I think the easiest way to come up with good looking and running representation of your light mike based SAL locomotive is to find a K-line or MTH USRA mike and apply a diecast or brass smokebox front of the proper type.  From that point you could apply a delta trailing truck or modify the domes as you desire and could avoid the major trauma of frame lengthening or boiler scratch building.  A Vanderbilt tender from a Harriman type 2-8-0 might also be close to your prototype.

Ted,

Nice looking GN engine, if I wasn't such a SSF (Slobbering Seaboard Freak) Great Northern would be my next favorite RR.

Seaboard also had 10 USRA Mikes, their Q1 class, but I like the looks of the Q3 with the Vanderbilt tender.

I think you're right in saying I should start with a USRA Mike and go from there.

Can you start here?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Hobbies-NYC-L-2a-Boiler-2-rail-brass-/150841199535?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item231ed60baf

Thanks,

Mario

Mario,

I checked and the NYC L2 had a wheelbase (front truck wheel to rear truck wheel) of approx. 42 feet.  A USRA Light and Heavy Mike was 36'-1".

The Seaboard Q3 was 37'-10".

The L2 boiler will undoubtedly be too long (guessing 1-1/2") while a USRA boiler should be a bit short, say 1/4".

All-in-all I think sticking with trying to find a complete USRA engine would be the best choice.

Here's a drawing of the SAL Q3:

Here's the USRA Light:

and the USRA Heavy:

If you right click on the image, then select View Image, you can see it enlarged.

Here's an article covering your topic that might be helpful

in CTT NOV 2009 page 72+ 

If, after reading the article, you have any questions let me know.

npulskamp@earthlink.net

Thanks Nick, I'll take a look

Bob,

I would like to see pictures of the locos you have bashed into other types.

Bobby,

I'll get some photos up soon.  The RK 2-8-0 boiler I bought from you I used on my existing 2-8-0 and the old RK 2-8-0 boiler is the one I'm extending into a 4-6-0 with brass fittings.  To make one into a 2-8-2 I'd have to extend the rear of the boiler from the rear dome to the cab, then the chassis would have to be extended.