Originally Posted by Rule292:
What bothers me a bit is importers who put out very casual "feelers" as part of some minor or cryptic announcement and then the projects just fade away.
In this aspect I admire Sunset/3rd Rail. If something is announced they solicit feedback and then announce the "taking reservations" formally on their web site on an easy to find page with other active and prospective projects. If it doesn't get enough reservations, they are cancelled.
They're in one place and up to date.
Perhaps that's why they are successful at growing their business while others struggle.
Rule292: Just nailed it on the head. The importer needs to list the model and list of all road names. If there is not enough orders cancel the project. Either you set up the website to take orders since they are sold direct or just drop the project. Until now the RS2/3 has had little advertising and all spectulation. I will know this is a real project when the website shows serious progress.
Erik: when the website is set up please, post on the forum that it is for real. Stephen
Originally Posted by mwb:
It's not a hobby for the middle of lower middle class anymore. That includes me =-?
Thanks! I needed a good laugh today.
Ok, you may be correct if you choose to define the hobby as exclusively limited to engines over $2k with correspondingly expensive rolling stock.
I suspect the majority do not.
I agree with you Martin when it comes to price, but this brings up another of the big problems of this scale.
While N/HO manufacturers are pushing the envelope with state the art highly accurate superdetailed RTR, O is stuck in the "O, the Builders Scale" mentality of the 1950's.
My old HO scale "toy" AHM RS2 from the 70's is more highly detailed than the crap Atlas O trainman RS3 that is currently offered.
Why? Because N and HO scalers demanded Kato and BLM and O scalers chastise each other for being rivet counters or being too lazy to scratchbuild or build kits.
This scale being stuck in the 40's and 50's is it's own worst enemy.
Nw2124, I agree. The website needs clear pricing, order policies, model features and road schemes. It's very hard to get excited when the project is still speculation.
Boy - darn near went off the rails. Nice recovery, you guys.
So, how close is the Kemtron, and how much would it cost to have Gary Schrader upgrade one to your specific configuration? He does really good work (way, way better than mine), and last I heard he was exactly half of my hourly rate.
Originally Posted by bob2:
Boy - darn near went off the rails. Nice recovery, you guys.
So, how close is the Kemtron, and how much would it cost to have Gary Schrader upgrade one to your specific configuration? He does really good work (way, way better than mine), and last I heard he was exactly half of my hourly rate.
Bob- your a hoot!
Originally Posted by BradA:
Nw2124, I agree. The website needs clear pricing, order policies, model features and road schemes. It's very hard to get excited when the project is still speculation.
Darin and I are going to tackle the website this week. Trouble is getting all the content in the right spot from Jack. I think I will start with this project because it's a hot!
It's pretty much a repeat exactly as we did in HO with the RS's. Jack is the go to guy in this case because he is the one who negotiates with Jae at Ajin or now known as ATM. I pleaded with Jack to offer o scale again. Not as a competition to Key my other love affair but as a compliment to Key's offerings. Key has no plans to do RS's or Grande Heavyweight passenger cars. That's why we need more than one importer. I also feel Koh's is a blessing we should all cherish. These guys make our trains!
These were the production models in HO. I recall Jack telling us one of these was not on the list? I do not know which one at this point without looking at his paperwork. Yes it is a preliminary plan that needs reservations. If you guys want them whatever the price is the orders will need to come in so they can be built. Please ask Jack any question you like he will give you a straight answer. He always gives me one.
I would like to see the DVP recent heavyweights in O badly! Sam Model is willing as long as there are enough to fill there minimum. Sucks! How many guys are willing to spend $1200 on a passenger car!? GGD's cars fantastic however, will GGD do the early Prospector heavyweights or Expo Flyer? It's doubtful based on the low numbers of buyers; this is the high point of brass versus other mediums of manufacture.
I would like to see the DVP recent heavyweights in O badly! Sam Model is willing as long as there are enough to fill there minimum. Sucks! How many guys are willing to spend $1200 on a passenger car!? GGD's cars fantastic however, will GGD do the early Prospector heavyweights or Expo Flyer? It's doubtful based on the low numbers of buyers; this is the high point of brass versus other mediums of manufacture.
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I would like to see these in O scale.
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Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
Originally Posted by BradA:
Nw2124, I agree. The website needs clear pricing, order policies, model features and road schemes. It's very hard to get excited when the project is still speculation.
Darin and I are going to tackle the website this week. Trouble is getting all the content in the right spot from Jack. I think I will start with this project because it's a hot!
It's pretty much a repeat exactly as we did in HO with the RS's. Jack is the go to guy in this case because he is the one who negotiates with Jae at Ajin or now known as ATM. I pleaded with Jack to offer o scale again. Not as a competition to Key my other love affair but as a compliment to Key's offerings. Key has no plans to do RS's or Grande Heavyweight passenger cars. That's why we need more than one importer. I also feel Koh's is a blessing we should all cherish. These guys make our trains!
It is great that you are assisting with the web development. Pat on the back to YOU!
I can't in all honesty pick on anyone that chooses to get into the model train business since it's a labor of love and in many instances it is a second business that is being done as a labor of love.
Thus I do have to give some slack for not having a slick and professional web site since those things take time and money.
And you know what they say about the model train business. To make a million start with two million. 
Would not see myself outfitting a 13 car Exposition Flyer with DP cars, but I would be in for a CB&Q "Omaha Club" solarium car and a CB&Q baggage car. The Omaha Club was used fairly regularly on "Q" fantrips in the '50's. I would couple up Hudson #3003 and.........(must remain calm, must remain calm)!!!
Erik: It would be better if Jack finished the second run of HO RS2/3 being delivered in 2015 before he starts the O scale project. That way he would have all his ducks in the water for the O project. All he would then have to do is then tell ATM which models that have recieved enough reservations to be produced. Meanwhile with the website setup that would give DP sufficient time to take reservations. Just a suggestion. Stephen
Originally Posted by Rule292:
Originally Posted by mwb:
It's not a hobby for the middle of lower middle class anymore. That includes me =-?
Ok, you may be correct if you choose to define the hobby as exclusively limited to engines over $2k with correspondingly expensive rolling stock.
I suspect the majority do not.
I agree with you Martin when it comes to price, but this brings up another of the big problems of this scale.
While N/HO manufacturers are pushing the envelope with state the art highly accurate superdetailed RTR, O is stuck in the "O, the Builders Scale" mentality of the 1950's.
My old HO scale "toy" AHM RS2 from the 70's is more highly detailed than the crap Atlas O trainman RS3 that is currently offered.
Why? Because N and HO scalers demanded Kato and BLM and O scalers chastise each other for being rivet counters or being too lazy to scratchbuild or build kits.
This scale being stuck in the 40's and 50's is it's own worst enemy.
In part, maybe yes, but I think you may also be overlooking the numbers game here as well.
Originally Posted by Rule292:
While N/HO manufacturers are pushing the envelope with state the art highly accurate superdetailed RTR, O is stuck in the "O, the Builders Scale" mentality of the 1950's.
My old HO scale "toy" AHM RS2 from the 70's is more highly detailed than the crap Atlas O trainman RS3 that is currently offered.
Why? Because N and HO scalers demanded Kato and BLM and O scalers chastise each other for being rivet counters or being too lazy to scratchbuild or build kits.
This scale being stuck in the 40's and 50's is it's own worst enemy.
There are times when reading the same passage multiple times is good for you, but I submit that it is not good here.
As a long time D&H modeler, I have to say that gray looks off (too light) to me. It couldbe the lighting for the photograph, but that gray reminds me of the paint on the N scale Atlas D&H C628, which was way too light.
Jeff C
I hope it's not too long before the Exposition Flyer cars are up for reservations. I'm in for a CB&Q DL3 solarium, a 1000 Series RG with flying Lettering and a CB&Q D-5 diner.
Originally Posted by Rule292:This scale being stuck in the 40's and 50's is it's own worst enemy.
Is it the scale or the people? 
I suspect some may still use whale oil lighting...
bob2 posted:Prices for a lot of things have gone way up. We were going to drop in at a favorite bakery the other day - parking for customers was only five bucks for the first hour. Cinnamon rolls were still four bucks each. That was after a five minute medical procedure that cost three grand. There are lots of folks who can afford these things. Even middle class folks can afford a $3500 brass RS switcher.
Bob,
They were hoping to get one of those RS models........or maybe it was cinnamon rolls
Simon
Simon Winter posted:bob2 posted:Prices for a lot of things have gone way up. We were going to drop in at a favorite bakery the other day - parking for customers was only five bucks for the first hour. Cinnamon rolls were still four bucks each. That was after a five minute medical procedure that cost three grand. There are lots of folks who can afford these things. Even middle class folks can afford a $3500 brass RS switcher.
Bob,
They were hoping to get one of those RS models........or maybe it was cinnamon rolls
Simon
69% of the country has less than $1k in the bank......and are probably also not eating cinnamon rolls..... But then things are "different" in San Diego, 
.
mwb posted:69% of the country has less than $1k in the bank......and are probably also not eating cinnamon rolls..... But then things are "different" in San Diego,
Oh, really?
I hadn't noticed......
Seems typically 'SNAFU'....where S="State"
First, catalytic converters. Coming soon to a bovine near you.....cowtalytic converters!
That legislature just keeps cranking it out!....
KD
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mwb posted:Simon Winter posted:bob2 posted:Prices for a lot of things have gone way up. We were going to drop in at a favorite bakery the other day - parking for customers was only five bucks for the first hour. Cinnamon rolls were still four bucks each. That was after a five minute medical procedure that cost three grand. There are lots of folks who can afford these things. Even middle class folks can afford a $3500 brass RS switcher.
Bob,
They were hoping to get one of those RS models........or maybe it was cinnamon rolls
Simon
69% of the country has less than $1k in the bank......and are probably also not eating cinnamon rolls..... But then things are "different" in San Diego,
Many years ago as youngster I read in MR about someone buying a brass O scale SD45 high nose custom built and painted for a mantle piece.
I wondered who could afford that.
Only much later did I find out what Tom "N&W" Dressler did for a living.
Yep, we have lots of 'po folk but lots of people who spend 3 grand on a new TV like it was a twenty.
O scale always was "the builders scale" but it also had a lot of brassers who dig deep into the mothy wallet.
KD's photo of the manure spreader is very funny !!!!!
