Division Point RS3 Update

Against my better judgement, which Pittman motor?  If it's the 6000 Series, and they haven't improved it, I wouldn't give you 5 cents for a dozen of them.  Way too much vibration and noise.  They make a gear head for it that isn't bad but what's the point?  If the motor is crap the gear head doesn't really matter.

Is Jack going to use a gear head?  Without it the 9000 RPMs are not a good thing.  Once again, noise, vibration, wear, etc.

Erik builds his own gear heads (or reduction) and can probably design them to fit whatever is required.

I use Pittman gear heads mated to their 8000 series motor and it will fit in many models but not the more narrow hood units.  The Pittman's are spur type.  I do prefer the Faulhaber gear head motor because they are smaller, more powerful and draw far less current the the Pittmans.  They are planetary.

I assume the new SP Krauss-Maffie ML 4000s will be in the $3000 range and will have Pittman gear heads......okay mine may end up with a Faulhaber, or two.

Jay

That price is just nuts. This is a "TOY". How many people are going to pay that kind of money for a toy train, no matter how accurate of a model it is. I have a few brass "O" scale trains, and like brass engines as many on here do, but these prices are getting out of hand.

 I hope they don't plan on selling more than 6 or 8 of them.

Remember that Rolex sells a lot of watches, Rolls Royce and Ferrari sell a lot of cars and Gucci sells lots of items at prices that are "just nuts."  There will always be a market for very high end stuff.  They just won't be selling any of them to you or to me. 

There is a market for very high end models.  It is just extremely small.  Those who produce such high end models are often in it for a hobby.  I think Jay can tell you he is not planning on making a living doing this stuff.

The question is not whether folks will buy this level of model - they will.  The question is whether those motivated to produce these things can make it to the end product.  MMW has no track record for finished models, as far as I am aware. Is the other outfit Division Point?  What have they produced so far?  Does it measure up to the very high expectations of those who will pay three grand for an RS-3?

Henry Bultmann had an excellent track record. I believe he finally tired of losing money and sleep on the deal.  The Division Point SP fire train has yet to sell out.

I really do hope you guys get your stable of high end models.  I am more or less happy with collecting doorstops.  No, really more happy than I was with fancy PSC stuff.  All I have left is the Harriman cars and a Pullman Obs, and I really prefer my dirt bag Walthers stuff.

There are plenty of people earning far in excess of $250,000 a year plenty. I remember walking into a house in England this man had everything and sitting in the lounge room on a special polished wood stand under glass was an O scale brass Big Boy locomotive I said "So you like trains do you have more?" he replied No, I was in America on a business trip and saw this locomotive in a shop and bought it because I liked it, looks good sitting there don't you think, I didn't know what to say.

There are people who live on the fringes of poverty and there are people who try to pretend they do, I'm the former. If these locomotives are advertised enough they will sell even if they just sit in the lounge room like the above. Roo.

nw2124 posted:

For those that are ordering the DP RS3, I just met with Jack and asked him about an update on the O RS3.  His new estimated price is about $3200 with less features than what Erik of MMW is giving the customers for a $2700, a $500 difference.  Also, Jack will be using what I understand is a higher priced Faulhaber motor that is a 9000 RPM, which is a higher speed motor than the Pittman motors.  He told me that the Pittman will not fit in the RS3 body, but the Pittman has a new line of motors that will fit and that can be ordered with ball bearings and such.  I believe that the price is too high for the brass model than what Key or Erik is producing.

I am interested in knowing what you guys think.  I will be talking to him again tomorrow.

Stephen

Key appears to have dropped off the grid this past year in terms of producing, could it be ever escalating pricing from the builders? I suspect by the time MMW actually delivers the product to customers [staying positive]his profit margin may be quite thin, bear in mind unlike the other importers he has to build drives here and then assemble and test the product before delivery. I believe DP is taking a realistic at the current market, back in the 90s Mr Sofue,s shop custom built models in small quantities for a very "dedicated" group of buyers, this appears to be the direction ultimate detailed O scale brass models are moving to. JMO

It looks like Pittman now offers a planetary style gear head for use on their 8000 series motors, in addition to the tradition gear head mentioned by Jay above.  The planetary gear head is listed at 1.2" diameter, while the traditional spur gear head is listed at 1.37".  86xx, 82xx, and 85xx motors (there doesn't appear to be an 8724 model any longer, apparently replaced with the 8224) range in diameter from 1.024" to 1.181".

Pittman brush motors

Pittman planetary gear head

Pittman model number translation

I'm curious if there is any practical way to change out the gear heads.  I have some of the spur gear head style that I had planned to use in road units but they are too big as Jay says.  I do know that the screws that hold the gear head to the motor were difficult enough to get loose without stripping that I gave up.  Also, it appears the planetary gear heads have four mounting holes instead of three for the spur gear head.  A mounting plate like those available from Protocraft would not mate to the new gear head.

I don't have any insights concerning power, torque, or current draw between the Pittman and Faulhaber motors.

Jim