Do the MPC GG1's have a derailing problem?

I don't have a derail problem with them. The best thing to do with the trucks is swap out the fast angle wheels with some PW wheels and axles. I just bought a few  cheap cars and used the wheels and axles from them. Later MPC GG1s came with PW type wheels.

As Jim indicated, I have a dim memory of reading about the fast angle wheels causing problems.

Also, the Lionel Postwar factory service manual has text discussing making adjustments to the little hook on the end trucks to address derailment problems. This text may apply to the MPC era ones too.

 

Does anyone know which GG-1's have the fast angle wheels, and which have "regular" wheels?

 

Does anyone know which GG-1's have the fast angle wheels, and which have "regular" wheels?

 

CW, I believe only the earliest ones, 8753 and 8850, came with Fast Angle wheels.  The big problem was side to side wobble, noticeable on straight tracks.  I changed mine out very early.

 

That said, those Fast Angle pilot trucks could end up anywhere as units pass from hand to hand.

My only GG-1 problem is that the front truck rides up on and derails on my Giraffe Car triggers.  That step-appendage on the pilots rides right up the ramp.

 

Jon 

quote:

CW, I believe only the earliest ones, 8753 and 8850, came with Fast Angle wheels.  The big problem was side to side wobble, noticeable on straight tracks.  I changed mine out very early.

 

Thanks. I didn't buy any when they came out. I felt my train money was better spent elsewhere. Recently I started looking for older Modern Era GG-1's and was wondering.

The fast angle wheels won't stop me. As far as I am concerned they are part of the evolution.

All of my MPC and PWC GG-1's derail sometimes on 022 and 072 switches. I changed all my fast angle wheels with the postwar wheels which lock the axle in place, and the issues went away. Problem solved.You can buy he axles and wheels from just about any parts dealer. Thats what I did.

 

Mark

i actually have the opposite problem.... my MPC Penn Central doesnt derail, but the front trucks on my Williams does.... it seems there there isnt enough weight on the front trucks to keep them from bouncing off... it seems like the trucks almost float over the tracks, that they dont sit flat on them in my case, i had to bend the little tab and strech the little spring where it goes into the frame, so it hangs down alittle lower... the Kline GG1's run smoothest in my opinion, and look the best... i have pretty much retired the lionel and williams to the shelf... just dont want to run them on my ceiling layout in fear of them plummiting 8 feet to their death...

IIRC original Lionel GG1's may have had a spring around the front and rear trucks to keep them on the tracks. My observation is that the fit to the rails on these is very sloppy.  Overall the Lionel GG1 is very heavy engine and with rather lightweight leading and trailing trucks. I guess they can be made to work but are sensitive to track brand, curves and track irregulaities. I'll try a set of old style axles/wheels and see what happens. 

I don't see one:

 

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//2330.htm
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//2332.htm
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//2340.htm

What does IIRC mean?

 

 

IIRC = if I recall correctly

The conventional classics GG1's did that too. The fix was as the others said, postwar wheels.

Rob

must be an MPC thing to put the spring and washer on the retaining clip on leading end trucks... i dont have a pw gg1 to compaire it to.

The problem was the fast angle wheels. The wobble and slop going down the track with those was just horrendous. Changed out both wheels and axles to the postwar style on just the leading truck and the derailing problem went away. Just goes to show that fast angle wheels don't work well everywhere. Lionel should have recognized this by now.

I took a look in the Lionel Modern Era Service Manual (Please consider that it is not always 100% correct). I do not see any springs listed for the GG-1. This listing states that it covers the first 3 models: 8753, 8150, and 8850.

I also looked at the truck pages. No springs there either.
According to the manual, #8753 and 8850 use the same trucks with wheel #9150-80 and axle 9050-53.   I assume these parts make up fast angle wheel sets.
The 8150 used wheel TC-70 and axle 480-33. I believe these are standard postwar style rolling stock wheels and axles.

This information matches Johngg1's comment above, when he wrote:

quote:

I believe only the earliest ones, 8753 and 8850, came with Fast Angle wheels.

The diagram for #610-8313-001 Pennsylvania GG-1 Dual Motor Electric Locomotive does show a pressure spring on the pilot truck, surrounded by two large washers.

That would make sense (to apply downward pressure) as those rather lightweight GG1 trucks seem at times to free float on the rails. As indicated above the old style post war wheels and axles (on the leading truck only)solved the problem and IMO look nicer than the fast angle wheels. I doubt if these are needed on the trailing truck as that is anchored and held in place by being attached to (and pulling) the train. I have about 6 GG1' and will test them all but don't expect any problems with the Lionel postwar and William's engines.  Thanks to all that provided suggestions, info and help.

My W GG1 tends to derail over an O-31 uncoupling track.  But it is a new one, so I think the front truck is being "picked-up" by the higher than normal electromagnet.

It's not a Lionel, but the lead trucks on the MTH  Premier GG1 hunt-and-seek all over the place, back and forth, but don't derail.  I suspect the wheels could be spread apart a little to settle it down, but as long as it doesn't cause a problem at 100smph, I'm not going to mess with doing that to it.  Sure looks "worrisome" however.  With the load of pulling cars the trailing truck doesn't do it.

I have a 8753 GG-1 with the fast angle wheels and it runs fine on my Gargraves track.  The front and rear trucks do indeed slop all over the place, but they haven't derailed for me.  I have Gargraves and Ross switches.  My minimum curve is O-54, which is probably a little bit less taxing.  My track is laid pretty carefully to ensure it is flat and straight, and has smooth transitions in, out, and through the curves.