Do we have any Clockwork(wind up) tinplate fans here? Lets see your CW trains

What are those beautiful 4-6-0 UK engines Bigmark?   Those are sharp, might have to add them to my "someday" list.     AD

Well I checked this whole post, and I didn't see this little gem anywhere.   When is a Lionel not a Lionel- when it's a Schylling!?  I don't know anything about the company,  but I love this little hand car. 

Complete with it's own lunchbox style case!

@Don McErlean

Here's a couple extra pics of my Hornby loco.  I don't know anything about Hornby, so I appreciate your investigative work.  I love the logo on the tender.

jhz563 posted:

@Don McErlean

Here's a couple extra pics of my Hornby loco.  I don't know anything about Hornby, so I appreciate your investigative work.  I love the logo on the tender.

Hiya

You have a Hornby No 20 Loco and Tender in British Rail livery from the mid 60's .

These were probably about the most produced loco and at the cheapest end of the range , but yours looks to be in quite nice condition , there are lots out there, but not too many really nice ones.

As you will see they came in both "Goods" and "Passenger " versions , boxed with 2 carriages or wagons and a oval/circle of track . Set numbers were No21 ...

And No.20

jhz563 posted:

Well I checked this whole post, and I didn't see this little gem anywhere.   When is a Lionel not a Lionel- when it's a Schylling!?  I don't know anything about the company,  but I love this little hand car. 

Complete with it's own lunchbox style case!

 

They made a non-Lionel version also in green I believe.

jhz53: As Fatman showed you, you have a No.20 loco and wagon.  These were made from 1954 - 1968 (about the end of production in Gauge O).  The key thing about the logo on the tender is that it was the first recognition by Hornby of railway nationalization in the UK which had actually taken place in 1948.  The MO locomotives represent perhaps the largest production in Gauge  O and were sort of the base sets available (a bit like Lionel 0-27).  In the Postwar era they became more toy like and were pointed at the "playroom" than than at the serious modeler.  The No 20 is a member of the  MO "class" and was the first Hornby Gauge O trains to appear in the British Railways livery .  The MO Goods set (freight) and Passenger Sets were revised in 1954 and became known as the Goods Train Set No 20 and Passenger Train Set No.21. The No 20 loco and tender were in a dark green livery, lined in orange and black with a cabside number in British Railways style.  The logo you like so much on the tender is known as "The Lion and Wheel" emblem and was the first representation of BR.  The No 20 wagon that appeared in your first picture, is the same wagon as the MO wagons BUT instead of being decorated in the livery of individual railways came in BR standard grey without any specific lettering.  Why did it take from 1948 to 1954 for Hornby to recognize railway nationalization...who knows?  There were always shortages of materials and production in the postwar years and they could hardly keep up with demand so there was little incentive for a substantial change in the product line especially at the "low" end where it was likely that their patrons (primarily children) would care that much. 

By the way, as an interesting sidelight you are seeing the near end of Gauge O production.  Hornby had discovered a very strong market interest and sales in their  "Dublo sets" Gauge OO or near HO . In fact they had determined that the market was so strong for these smaller sets that even though a Dublo set cost about 1/2 the price to make in production as compared with O they could sell it for 2X what they traditionally sold the Gauge O sets.  In addition, given the continual shortage of materials in the postwar era, they could make nearly twice as many trains with the same amount of material.

I have a M1 Goods Set from 1948 (according to the dated inspection slip still in the box) and it is in the pre-nationalization livery.  The construction of the engine and most of the litho is identical to your No. 20 except it carries "Hornby" in black letters under the cab windows and the engine number vice the "Lion and Wheel" on the tender.  My wagons are identical to yours in construction but the livery is again the pre-nationalization railway names.  Here are some pictures:

Great stuff guys and it was really interesting trying to research the data.  Note:  For your interest, most of the data that I found was contained in..."The Hornby Companion Series, The Hornby Gauge O System by Chris and Julie Graebe", New Cavendish Books, 23 Craven Hill, London W2 3EN, 1985.  This is a really neat book however it is about 75% - 25% devoted to the pre war era and it does have a higher concentration on the more expensive lines. 

Best regards everyone

Don McErlean

. 

This item is not a train but it winds up and was made by Marx. It is a prototype model for a windup stationary engine that apparently would have been used to power various accessories.  The flywheel is the same part used on  Marx prewar steamrollers. The rest is hand painted including gauges, pipes, and a Marx logo. The base is marked "7-12-38, Erie, #1640".  I'm not aware of Marx ever putting anything like this into production.

Well guys the "E-Bay Fairy" arrived at my doorstep today and left a great package.  It is a Marx, clockwork (Mercury), Circus Train.  NO it was not originally made by Marx it is a custom paint job by (at least to me) an unknown modeler.  As you will see from the pictures however, whomever actually made it did an outstanding job even the paint, which I am sure was sprayed on looks like a baked on paint job.  Anyway, the engine motor works great, it came with an oval of track and THE KEY!!

Anyway I hope you agree, this thing is going to be fun to run around the layout and maybe the Christmas tree.

Here is the full train

The loco, a Marx wind up Mercury I believe.

The "oil" tender and a dump car - perhaps to offload base material for the animals

The "Pole Car" for the poles to erect the tents (and yes it has a load of "poles"aboard) the the "performers car"

Have a great weekend fellows...I'm off to the Circus

Don McErlean

Don McErlean posted:

Well guys the "E-Bay Fairy" arrived at my doorstep today and left a great package.  It is a Marx, clockwork (Mercury), Circus Train.  NO it was not originally made by Marx it is a custom paint job by (at least to me) an unknown modeler.  As you will see from the pictures however, whomever actually made it did an outstanding job even the paint, which I am sure was sprayed on looks like a baked on paint job.  Anyway, the engine motor works great, it came with an oval of track and THE KEY!!

Anyway I hope you agree, this thing is going to be fun to run around the layout and maybe the Christmas tree.

Here is the full train

The loco, a Marx wind up Mercury I believe.

The "oil" tender and a dump car - perhaps to offload base material for the animals

 

The "Pole Car" for the poles to erect the tents (and yes it has a load of "poles"aboard) the the "performers car"

Have a great weekend fellows...I'm off to the Circus

Don McErlean

Nicely done fantasy piece. FYI, it’s a CV, not a Mercury 

Steve

OOOP's was afraid that I would get that wrong.  Thanks Steve...will correct my mental model!!

Don McErlean

Mark S. posted:

 

Mark, what a neat and simple design. Fascinsting! Maybe there wasn't the same fascination with clockwork stationary steam engines than there was with the real thing at the time. Mamod was founded in the UK a year before that prototype, and Wilesco, albeit 38 years in the manufacturing industry by then, only began making stationary engines in 1950.

Careful that 'connecting rod' doesn't poke your eye out! 

Mark S. posted:

This item is not a train but it winds up and was made by Marx. It is a prototype model for a windup stationary engine that apparently would have been used to power various accessories.  The flywheel is the same part used on  Marx prewar steamrollers. The rest is hand painted including gauges, pipes, and a Marx logo. The base is marked "7-12-38, Erie, #1640".  I'm not aware of Marx ever putting anything like this into production.

Very interesting find there Mark !!!

Looks Like Marx were diddling with a clockwork powered version of the Hess( germany) Dynamobil

I just happened to pick one of these up myself recently

Well, you know the movie..."The Postman Always Rings Twice" ... well it worked.  Today after receiving my Marx Circus set yesterday, I got delivery of another "e-bay" find also clockwork and it has been are real challenge in sorting it out.  It was advertised on the bay as "Hornby" which it is in one sense, however when I got it opened and looked at the lithographed logo on both the engine and cars it read..." Fab En France, Mecanno Paris, Serie Hornby" so it is actually French Hornby.  As best I can figure, this set is part of the French "Train Express" which was the equivalent to the English MO trains.  The loco number on the tender is 3615 while the logo under the cab window is a manufacturing mark.  While it likely does not make much difference in value, it is a "new" make for my collection and just a little different from the standard Hornby set.  Here are some pictures:  Note - I have no idea what might have once been put into the 4 rectangular holes in the cardboard that are just outside of the ends of the straight track.  In addition, this set did not come with the box "top" which would likely have yielded more data. It did however come with a complete oval of track including a set of "stop" rails AND THE KEY!!  By the way, the motor runs really nicely, smooth and without any gear noises. 

Maybe I should have saved this for Front End Friday ... note the smoke lifters which seem to be far more common on continental loco's than on those designated for the UK market. 

BY THE WAY ...anyone know what happened to the "Buy / Make anything new for your layout - tinplate version" ?  It seems to have disappeared from my listing.

Have a good weekend, Best Regards, stay healthy

Don McErlean

This French Hornby train was available in 3 versions. No 1 with 1 passenger car (as you have), No 2 with two cars and No 3 with 2 cars and a small station like this:

Before the war the locomotive did not have smoke deflectors; so your version is postwar.

The rectangular holes in the box are for the sleepers of the curved rail. I assume the box top looked like this, since M0 and Train Express had the same box tops:

Regards

Fred

Fred THANK YOU! I was fairly sure that you and some of the other experts would have some additional information on the set.  I was fairly certain it was post war as my reference showed the picture under that category with the comment that the MO trains "re-appeared" in 1956 after "being discontinued in early 50's" and then ran almost to the end of production in 61. 

That box lid is spectacular, far cooler than the normal Hornby box.  I know now why someone kept it sometime in this set's life.  When you mention "sleepers" for the curved rails I expect you mean that they would be raised on the outer circumference to help keep the train on the track on the curves.  Is that correct? 

Thanks for posting the data...

Don

Don McErlean posted:

 

BY THE WAY ...anyone know what happened to the "Buy / Make anything new for your layout - tinplate version" ?  It seems to have disappeared from my listing.

Have a good weekend, Best Regards, stay healthy

Don McErlean

 

Was moved to the Photo Forum. This makes no sense because every thread now is basically a photo thread, so just group by subject.

Will posted:

Don McErlean posted:

 

BY THE WAY ...anyone know what happened to the "Buy / Make anything new for your layout - tinplate version" ?  It seems to have disappeared from my listing.

Have a good weekend, Best Regards, stay healthy

Don McErlean

 

Was moved to the Photo Forum. This makes no sense because every thread now is basically a photo thread, so just group by subject.

This makes no sense. This thread will be moved too, and then nobody will have any idea what’s going on. There will be no classification of discussions because they have photos. Next, they will add a whole sub-classification under the miscellaneous-photos section that mirrors the rest of the forum. Come-on Man!

George

@Don McErlean

You have now discovered French Hornby ... so you must DIE !!!   LOL!

I am not sure I can stand the competition now

C'est La Vie ! ( darn those Frenchies ! )

Hey Fatman you mention French Hornby, nice you appreciate those models so here is one from 1935, all original and not abused. The illustration of the box may suggest you are going to have a big steam engine but it is only a 040 ......

Daniel

French Hornby you say ?

( Ok I cheated on this one lol ... its electric , just imagine it with a key )

One of my oldest French Hornby locomotive is a 444 PLM tank loco. More British style than French, just lettered PLM for Paris Lyon Méditerranée to be sold in France. It dates from around 1926-27 so not yet a hundred years old...

Daniel

Mark S. posted:

This item is not a train but it winds up and was made by Marx. It is a prototype model for a windup stationary engine that apparently would have been used to power various accessories.  The flywheel is the same part used on  Marx prewar steamrollers. The rest is hand painted including gauges, pipes, and a Marx logo. The base is marked "7-12-38, Erie, #1640".  I'm not aware of Marx ever putting anything like this into production.

I was looking for something like this to drive old German steam toys. I don’t really want live steam on my layout for safety reasons.

George

@George S

Maybe while you are waiting for a beauty like a Hess or similar dynamobil why not google up

"meccano clockwork motor" or search ebay for the same

I have several of these in different sizes from different periods and they are wee rippers

Don McErlean posted:

Well I don't have too much in clockwork but here are a couple of "fun" sets...not too rare but fun anyway.

Here is a set called the Red Flyer...its Marx from the late 40's. 

Best Regards, Don McErlean

I have the same Marx Red Flyer set, my only wind up. Need to work on the flint for the sparking effect.

Original instruction sheet.

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

One of my oldest French Hornby locomotive is a 444 PLM tank loco. More British style than French, just lettered PLM for Paris Lyon Méditerranée to be sold in France. It dates from around 1926-27 so not yet a hundred years old..

Daniel

Wow, what a beauty!

Nothing special, a less than mint Hafner set and a couple of Marx locos.

N

handyandy posted:

Nothing special, a less than mint Hafner set and a couple of Marx locos.

 

N

looks like a couple of bodies were swapped here. red/brown brown/red but I like the contrast.

Jim O'C posted:

handyandy posted:

Nothing special, a less than mint Hafner set and a couple of Marx locos.

 

 

N

looks like a couple of bodies were swapped here. red/brown brown/red but I like the contrast.

Yeah, I was going to switch them back, but found one coupler mount broken off of the brown frame. That explained the switch.