Dual row barrier strips - opinions?

My casual advice, Stop using barrier strips.

Start using Euro stye terminal blocks.

Why you ask? Well do you want to then also strip and crimp a ring or spade connector wire to every single wire you want to connect? How much time, effort, and money is terminating all those wires?

With euro style terminals, you can cut that block into small sections or pairs whenever you just need to join 2 pars of wires, or say switch controls or there groups of connection where you are extending groups of control wires. You just strip the wire bare and insert and tighten the clamping screw. I'm sure someone is going to say you can do that with traditional barrier terminal style strips, but for high current connections it was always recommend to use spade or ring and then all that crimping.

If you want true bus terminal distribution blocks, there are all kinds of different options that again can accept bare style stripped wires rather than all that crimping.

Again, my advice is get away from all the work of terminating every single wire you want to connect with a crimp spade or ring lug. Yes, this "kit" contains the parts, but 22 crimps later......

Yes, a lot of people did wiring the old school way with barrier strips but IMO, there are better options.

This was the old way, we can do better.

Vernon makes a good point on eliminating spade connectors but can you connect more than two wires together in this style connector.

Pete

Yes, just get the larger wire size versions of the terminals. You don't want to get crazy and try to do something like 5 wires- more suitable for a bus style strip, but 2-3 and even 4 wires of smaller size can be used.

Also, like everything else there re cheap quality and then higher quality versions of euro terminal blocks out there. The better ones have a metal clamping strip inside that the screw tightens against the wire. I've accidentally gotten the cheap version and they were cheap on many levels, the alloy of the conductor tube metal contact was so shoddy when the screw was tightened the backside of the metal tube just cracked out. It should be illegal to sell something tha shoddy so again, try to buy the better reviewed brands and zoom in on pictures of the terminals to determine the construction.

And, I've had my fas share of shoddy barrier strips, where the screws strip out or pull out, it's just sad the quality we get these days.

Sorry, @G3750 George, I just found a previous topic by you with a picture of Euro terminals.

https://ogrforum.com/...c/150647239488868187

Again, sorry, I didn't know you had discussed them in the past.

@G3750 posted:

All:

I'm looking at 2 different dual row barrier strips:

1. Rated for 25A, 300V.  Terminals are Copper alloy, Sn-plated.  12-10 awg wire. Accepts #8-6-4 spade or ring connectors
2. Rated for 30A, 600V.  This is an Eaton Bussman TB300-04.  12-10 awg wire.

Which would you pick and why?

Is there any reason #1 wouldn't do for our purposes (bus connections to track feeders)?

Thanks,

George

Some key points about those terminal blocks you specifically linked.

I found a data sheet for the Eaton https://www.mouser.com/datashe...607039_1-2512063.pdf

Your #2 Rated for 30A, 600V.  This is an Eaton Bussman TB300-04.  12-10 awg wire.- This has large 8-32 sized screws that need large spade terminals. In other words, these are some of the larger sized terminal blocks. On one hand, extra heavy duty, but is that overkill and then also requires all your connectors and other mating parts to then also be larger?

I'm not sure about the first one since no product number or link is mentioned.

Without seeing the actual size and a few more details, I'm just concerned the 300 series from Eaton is one of the larger blocks they sell. Just physically larger screws and terminal spaces, larger spacing meaning you need the correct matching buss bar system when turning into a bus distribution  block.

@G3750 posted:

I'm looking at 2 different dual row barrier strips:

George

George,

In direct answer to your question, the inexpensive Eaton Bussman, TB-100 series (not -300), with 3/8" terminal separation, is the more popular style of dual row barrier strips used by hobbyists. There are several different manufacturers.  It will do what you want to do.

Suggest you also get from Mouser the Molex Terminal Block Jumper which comes in many lengths.

It will save you lots of time if you ever need to electrically connect terminals together.

I would use choice #1 of the barrier strips.   I have plenty of the old style barrier strips and the newer "euro" style.  I prefer the way they mount, the visibility and ease of use.

I use both kinds of strips, euro and buss. Whatever is the most convenient for the purpose.

I became a fan of the Amazon terminal strips when I rewired my layout a year and a half ago. They are sold under various brands, the sets I bought were from ‘Fixitok’. I use the euro styles sparingly, mostly to terminate structure lighting.

I used both the standard barrier strips and the euro style terminal strips.  Truthfully, it was what was already available in my parts stash.

While the euro style strips are very convenient and eliminate terminating all the wires with spade connectors, if you have to jumper them (especially an entire row of them) the time savings is negated because the barrier strips often come with jumper sets in red and black and there is nothing similar for the euro strips.

John

Yep, I used the Euro style strips where jumpering was not required.  I didn't have the jumper strips for my barrier blocks, so I just used solid wire and bend it to make jumper strips.

Much prefer these. The metal jumper can be cut into any number of configurations making 2- 24 common connections. Not to mention ease of use.

This picture is located just about the transformers. In this case it is the main supply to the entire layout.  I use yellow as accessory power and run white (ground) pairs to barrier strips located thru out the layout. (Depending on needs.) In some cases, I split the barrier jumper into 4 sections with one side being AC ACC power/ground (AC 12-14 volts) the other side DC , feed by a separate DC transformer,  for LED lighting.

This infrastructure wiring  makes  wiring street lights, buildings and non finicky operating accessories very easy.

it also allows very simple changes in the future, should some of the barrier strips need to be transferred to a different power supply.

This is divided into 3 sections - left will be AC ground , middle will be set at 11 volts right will be set at 14 volts..

One other note not all solder-less connectors are equal. I prefer 3m.

@Vernon Barry posted:

First of all, my thanks to all who responded to this question.  I very much appreciate the input.

Second, let me address these valid questions and clarify the situation a bit more.:

1. The original idea was to use IDC (insulation displacement or "suitcase" connectors) to attach GarGraves pigtails (from the track) to a 12 awg bus.  I have come across some evidence that lowers my trust in them.  I have also been warned off them by some electricians who happen to be model railroaders.
2. As Vernon Barry realized from a previous thread I started, I am not a fan of Euro style terminal strips.  I had been using them on Panhandle 1.0, primarily for wiring DZ-2500 switch machines.  Total PITA.  I have replaced those with Posi-Lock connectors.  I am very happy with that choice.
3. It was suggested that the TB300-04 are a bit too large and heavy duty and that I look at TB100.  Unfortunately, these are not suitable for 12 awg wire and their U-spade connectors.  Both of the barrier strips I initially listed will accommodate the 12 gauge bus.
4. I am well aware of the numerous crimps required - that's definitely a minus.  However, I am thinking of addressing this by purchasing a ratch-style crimping tool that will make reliable, reproducible, repeatable crimps with minimum effect.  Also, by drilling a 3/8" wide hole in the Vinylbedd roadbed and plywood benchwork, I will be able to crimp spade connectors onto the GarGraves pigtails, connect them to the track, and thread them down to the barrier strip below.  It's then a matter of connecting the track feeders to the barrier strip.  No crimping under the table!  I will use a paper disc or other material to plug the hole and prevent the loss of ballast.  At least that's my evil plan.
5. I will look into the DIN and Fixitok connectors.
6. I will also look at the Molex part number for those spade jumpers.

Again, thanks for responding.  If you have further ideas or want to refine these, I am all ears!

George

George,

How large is your layout that you need to use 12 awg wire?

George,

Not all ratcheting crimping tools are the same. Goes for Wire strippers, also.

This style is my recommendation.

fwiw

@aubv posted:

George,

Not all ratcheting crimping tools are the same. Goes for Wire strippers, also.

This style is my recommendation.

fwiw

I have one like that and I find it doesn't crimp tight enough.  The wires pull out of the connectors.  Wasn't cheap either.  Once it is crimped you can't make it tighter although there is an adjustment.

I find it takes as much force as a non-ratcheting one to crimp a connector.  With the non-ratcheting type at least if you are going to wreck your hands anyway you'll get a connector that won't come off.

John

I've never been satisfied crimping the plastic insulator to crimp the metal underneath. Crimping the metal seems to give a really good gas tight crimp. With all the screws and wire exposed, other than designating the wire size I don't see what the plastic ring does for the job anyway.

I got all my Barrier Strips from Radio Shack (before all the stores closed)  Every time I went to Radio Shack I would buy more of them, 2 Screw, 4 Screw, 6 and 8 Screw,  couldn't have enough of them.

Back of my Control Panel

Schematic of all the electrical connections

Barrier Strips for Track Power

Under the Benchwork, connections for my 97 Coal Elevator

Steve

I have done thousands of insulated terminal crimps, pretty rare to have an issue. Usually,  a second crimp solves the problem..

There’s even some tricks, you can learn, to  successfully crimp smaller gauge wire.

My experience,  some  solderless terminals are junk..

@Vernon Barry posted:

Yes, a lot of people did wiring the old school way with barrier strips but IMO, there are better options.

Find the terminals on these types too tiny for most wiring.

After 30 years of helping club members sort out electrical issues in their modules, I routinely replace euro terminals with barrier strips and crimped connectors.  The fundamental connection in a module is a T that feeds power from the bus wires to the module track. A simple connection using barrier strips which facilitate disconnecting a feed wire for troubleshooting.  Not so with euro terminals which are tougher to assemble/reassemble the T connection where two wires are in the same terminal hole.  I also find stranded wires coming loose from the euro terminals after a few months of module moving and transport.

@Bruce Brown posted:

George,

How large is your layout that you need to use 12 awg wire?

We have an 11' x 47' layout, divided into 8 power districts.  Each district has a power source (either a PH135 or PH180) and a bus.  Below is an early version of the wiring plan for the western power districts.

George

When I was wireing turnouts on my club's layout< i sterted using the euro style strips. What a pain that was,htrying to get the wires into the holes was a real pita.

Now changing to cinch #140 strips and crimp terminals. Much easier under the layout.

@Craftech posted:

I have these in 12 pair (as pictured above) and 6 pair.

They are really nice for accessories and switches for auxiliary power especially if you are mounting them on top of the layout.

John

I just found these about a month ago and replaced all of my terminal blocks with these.  I really like them.

One other piece of information:  the layout is being built in stages.  I am not doing the traditional sequence of :

1. Built all the bench work
2. Do all the track laying (w/ feeders)
3. Do all the wiring
4. Run / test with trains and adjust as necessary (many stop at this point)
5. Install scenery
6. Ballast track

Instead, because of the difficulty of reaching areas of the layout, I have chosen to completely construct it in stages (see below).  Stages 1 & 2 are complete.

Building a layout is a journey.  If you are interested in following this one, here's the link:

https://ogrforum.com/topic/72523942496927447

Viewers, comments, and questions are always welcome.

This thread has been very informative for me.  Please keep the comments coming.

Thank you!

George

Old school barrier strips and MTH panels primarily here.

I have tried others but my ham fisted hands work best with the larger terminal strips.  There are about a dozen MTH 1020 & 1014 panels and terminal strips.

One major distinction is that 100% of all MTH panels and barrier strip connections are just below the benchwork fascia at each control station for physical ease and speed of service.

Every wire route is toggle switch controlled between the MTH panel and the barrier strip.  Shorts can be isolated anywhere.  conventional locomotives can be stopped anywhere.   Sometimes I combine all power stations and run multiple trains  from one throttle on a 200' loop with passing sidings.  Conventional F-N-R can then be sequenced independent of other locos on the same throttle.

May be thought of as archaic but it works for me.  My present direction is battery R/C.

All crimp connections are redundantly soldered.  Just touch the terminal tip in a flame and the solder sucks right in.

My power distribution center uses terminal strips, both single and dual row and I use the euro strips for connecting wires under the table:

IMO for track power wiring it's pretty hard to beat the MTH distribution blocks, available in 12 and 24 circuit variants. Sorry I don't know the product numbers off hand. Sure you will need to have crimp terminals and yes you need to crimp them, but so what? As long as your arthritus isn't too bad it's no big deal.

Sure you could use solid #12 or 14 wire and just bend it to fit around the screw studs like electricians do for house wiring. But IMO heavy gauge solid wire is not great around a train layout. Stranded is way easier to live with.

For accessory and signal wiring I use the small euro style and #22-26 solid wire mostly. Works pretty well. It all boils down to what you are comfortable with I guess.

Rod

George,

What is the gauge of the wire you were planning to solder to the tracks? Answer affects the type of terminal block terminating the end of the wire.

If I understand your table correctly, your feeders are connected to a central barrier strip for each district. Would that mean you will have some semi-long runs between the track solder point and that barrier strip? Or were you intending to run #12 wire from that barrier strip to a 2-pole barrier strip (near the soldering point) for transition to a smaller wire for soldering to the track?

Have you done any analysis based on the expected length of wires regarding voltage drop between using #12 vs #14 wire? For example, #12 wire may provide 35% lower resistance than #14 but will it result in significantly less voltage loss for wire runs under 50 feet? Most of us don't use #12 because of the Hassle Factor.

I would think getting feedback from forum club members who have extremely large layouts would give you valuable guidance based on their operating experiences.

@Bruce Brown posted:

George,

What is the gauge of the wire you were planning to solder to the tracks? Answer affects the type of terminal block terminating the end of the wire.

If I understand your table correctly, your feeders are connected to a central barrier strip for each district. Would that mean you will have some semi-long runs between the track solder point and that barrier strip? Or were you intending to run #12 wire from that barrier strip to a 2-pole barrier strip (near the soldering point) for transition to a smaller wire for soldering to the track?

Have you done any analysis based on the expected length of wires regarding voltage drop between using #12 vs #14 wire? For example, #12 wire may provide 35% lower resistance than #14 but will it result in significantly less voltage loss for wire runs under 50 feet? Most of us don't use #12 because of the Hassle Factor.

I would think getting feedback from forum club members who have extremely large layouts would give you valuable guidance based on their operating experiences.

Bruce,

No, I will not have semi-long runs between the track feeder and a central barrier strip.  And I am not planning on soldering anything.  This is the proposed approach (shown in the photo below):

• 16 awg GarGraves pig-tails to the tracks (red to center rail; black to an outside rail; the other outside rail reserved for activating signals).  A pig-tail is a GarGraves track pin soldered to a length of wire.
• 22-16 gauge insulated spade connectors (red) for connecting the pig-tails to the terminal block
• 4-position 2-row Terminal block
• 2 jumpers for connecting red and black bus wires to their track feeds, respectively
• 12-10 gauge insulated spade connectors (yellow) for connecting bus feeds to the terminal block

Such an approach worked flawlessly for a friend's 22' x 11' twice around layout.

No, I haven't done any analysis of voltage drop between 12 and 16 gauge wire.  The track feeders are 8" in length, which I'm thinking might indicate a marginal loss.

Thoughts?

George

Speaking of wire sizes and run lengths; In case it is handy attached is a table of wire gauges, max recommended current, recommended breaker size, and run lengths for a max 2 volt loss. So if you have 18 VAC at the transformer you would wind up with 16 VAC at the end of the run. Note also the lengths are out & back, meaning 2 way. If the run is only one way you can double the length. (But then how does the current get back?) So for example for 10 amps load with #14 wire the max run length out and back (wire pair) is 40 feet for a 2 volt loss. For a 20 foot run it would be 1 volt loss.

Note the losses are entirely linear. So if you have half the length you have half the loss, etc. And you can interpolate between the amperage rows.

Rod

George - I think part of your issues with euro style connectors is trying to screw in tiny stranded wires. I use wire ferrules which makes attaching them to the connectors much easier. There are ferrule sizes for all wire gauges. It is the barrel that gets crimped to the wire so if the correct ferrule size is used the wire is going nowhere plus the connection to the euro terminal strip is rock solid.

Thanks Rod!  My longest run is 72' of 12 awg (with 8" long 16 awg track feeders); that red & black wires from transformer to termination on the layout some 72' away.  Using the table you supplied and if I read it correctly, then I should see 2 volts loss at the most.  Correct?

Joe, that sounds like a great solution.  At one point (long ago) I was using ferrules for connecting wires to an AIU.  I abandoned DCS and ended up selling the tool as well.  I use Posi-Locks now and like them a lot more than Euro-style terminal blocks.  For me, the Euro-style blocks randomly failed to tighten down on the wire (somehow the wire failed to be caught).  They were also a bear to tighten and loosen under the layout.  They simply didn't inspire confidence.

George

@G3750 posted:

Joe, that sounds like a great solution.  At one point (long ago) I was using ferrules for connecting wires to an AIU.  I abandoned DCS and ended up selling the tool as well.

George

I like mine a lot.  The tiniest ones are a little breakable, but they are much better than bare wires for euro terminal strips (and also work for the others)  I have this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Preciva...aps%2C298&sr=8-6

John

@G3750 posted:

Thanks Rod!  My longest run is 72' of 12 awg (with 8" long 16 awg track feeders); that red & black wires from transformer to termination on the layout some 72' away.  Using the table you supplied and if I read it correctly, then I should see 2 volts loss at the most.  Correct?

George; looks to me like a 72' run of #12 wire should handle about 9 amps with only a 2 volt loss. That's a lot of amps so you should be just fine.

Rod

I prefer to use barrier terminal strips as they are easier for me to trouble shoot with. I use a manual crimping plier (preferred) and a ratcheting one also. Found the ratcheting one does not work to well on smaller gauge wire even with a second crimp. The manual one allows me to recrimp and reposition the crimp for best results. Ditto some crimps are junk.  John 

@Radioman77 posted:

I prefer to use barrier terminal strips as they are easier for me to trouble shoot with. I use a manual crimping plier (preferred) and a ratcheting one also. Found the ratcheting one does not work to well on smaller gauge wire even with a second crimp. The manual one allows me to recrimp and reposition the crimp for best results. Ditto some crimps are junk.  John

Hi John!  I have one of those Klein #1005 manual crimping tools as well.  I find it to be much superior to the more commonly seen combination wire-stripper tool (I had one of those as well).

Thanks,

George