Dull Topcoat Over Powder

I've heard some use a light coat of hairspray.

I know this is the recommended technique, but when I tried it, I ended up blowing half the chalk off.

I'd really like to get good at weathering as I love the look. 

dont use chalk weather with paint

@BobbyD posted:

I've heard some use a light coat of hairspray.

OMG!  But, if you do, BE SURE IT'S THE UN-SCENTED VARIETY!!!   Many, many years ago I attended an NMRA regional convention and toured some of the locals' layouts.  One of which...how shall we say?...'stood out'.  Seems the chap, in his rush to put more scenery/greenery on the layout chose the expedient thing to do...use his wife's can of hairspray to apply fresh foliage to the tree-covered mountains.  Except the hairspray was 'scented'...and the layout spoke shouted "Hair Salon!".  Perhaps that dissipated over time.  But, I'm sure he grew tired of responding to "What's that smell?"

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Separate comment on your inquiry...

Many of us have used chalk powders to weather this and that on the layout.  To fix it in place, avoid transfer to fingers if on an engine or rolling stock item, we would overspray with Dullcoat...only to see the weathering seemingly disappear!  So I'd be really interested if there's a new overspray that minimizes/eliminates that disappointment.  I've since done most of the 'weathering' using washes and paints, dry brush techniques, etc..  But I'd rather use chalks in many situations.

KD

I've been experimenting with powders. I do find it hard to keep them in place. I've mixed the powder with a little water which helps but they can still rub off when handled.
I need to learn more about using paints.
I use Rustoleum clear matte to seal everything in.

Here's an old caboose shell I used to make a yard office.

Bob

All clear coats will dilute colored powders except black soot. It will also eat colored pencils and chalks. Details like rust and marks have to be hand done using acrylic or oil-based paints. I recently started using oil pastels for certain rust marks. Both are not affected.

I apply colored pencils to the roof and wood grain areas last after the clear has been already applied. No need to coat or seal them.

@SIRT posted:

All clear coats will dilute colored powders except black soot. It will also eat colored pencils and chalks. Details like rust and marks have to be hand done using acrylic or oil-based paints. I recently started using oil pastels for certain rust marks. Both are not affected.

I apply colored pencils to the roof and wood grain areas last after the clear has been already applied. No need to coat or seal them.

Very true Steve. The black is about all you see on the roof of my caboose. I had a more streaks and marks on there before the spray ate them for lunch....

So true.  You think you did a great job.  Then you spray it with a topcoat and it all disappears

@Dave Koehler posted:

dont use chalk weather with paint

This ^^^^
Weathering powders like Bragdon’s is a bit more tolerant but if you want something that will stand up to clear coats use Pan Pastels.

Pete

@Norton posted:

This ^^^^
Weathering powders like Bragdon’s is a bit more tolerant but if you want something that will stand up to clear coats use Pan Pastels.

Pete

So, Pan Pastels will tolerate a coating of clear over the top? I checked out their website and they have a nice selection of colors that would work well for railroading.

Pan pastels are pretty durable. You have to be careful when applying as they take some effort to remove if you make a mistake. They can be cleaned off with mineral spirits, maybe glass cleaner though. You will want to practice on some scrap first to get a feel for them.

Pete

Never a good idea, ….paint might not penetrate the powders/chalks and prevent the paint from holding on…..from handling, if the powders or chalks, move so will any top coats, and then you’ll be left with blotchy spots that will just look plain hideous,…..if you wish to top coat weathering, best to use an airbrush with AE (acrylic enamel) or even properly cured acrylics…..a true acrylic is alcohol based, and when the alcohol evaporates off, it leaves the pigment behind ( the acrylic part) when cured properly, products like dullcoat will not lift it….

Pat

I’ve never used pan pastels, so I don’t know how they’ll react to being top coated ….I’ll defer that to the fellas like Pete that know …..

Pat

The smokebox on this engine was done with Pan Pastels. No clearcoat over it as its not easily rubbed off.

Pete

Are the Pan Pastels applied in a similar way to the chalk materials? Basically, dusted on with a brush.

You can use a brush or if you get one of the kits it comes with foam pad applicators.

Pete

What I do is first a coat of dullcote or similar flat finish.  Then I apply powders or chalks,  followed by a sealer coat of flat finish.  I usually use acrylic flat  by hobby lobby. The initial coat helps the powders to adhere to the surface.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

I know this is the recommended technique, but when I tried it, I ended up blowing half the chalk off.

You were too close Frank. Light coats.

@dkdkrd posted:

OMG!  But, if you do, BE SURE IT'S THE UN-SCENTED VARIETY!!!   Many, many years ago I attended an NMRA regional convention and toured some of the locals' layouts.  One of which...how shall we say?...'stood out'.  Seems the chap, in his rush to put more scenery/greenery on the layout chose the expedient thing to do...use his wife's can of hairspray to apply fresh foliage to the tree-covered mountains.  Except the hairspray was 'scented'...and the layout spoke shouted "Hair Salon!".  Perhaps that dissipated over time.  But, I'm sure he grew tired of responding to "What's that smell?"

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Wow, not sure how many cases it would take to do that. Did he spray the trees until dripping an hour before the crowd arrived?

I have weathered cars with chalk powder.    I tried a few times to dull coat over them to make it permanent, and when I did this spraying on an over coat, the effect was to remove a good deal of the weathering.   It just kind of absorbed the powder and made it disappear.

I gave up trying to do that and just let the chalk as is.   it seems to work.   Sometimes fingers move it around but it doesn't seem to matter.

Lee Turner, who I consider one of the greatest, if not the greatest, O scale weathering artists told me he uses everything on his models before he's done with them. Chalks, acrylics and oils and then sets them with some brand of dull coat paint.

That being said, I've used just about every brand of chalks and powders over the years, but quit using them about two years ago when I learned about Pan Pastels. Much, much finer pigment (Like women's pancake make-up) which adheres to the model much quicker and easier. Will it lighten when over coated with a clear coat...........yes...........but much less than most chalks. Fantastic for chalk, but only one component of the arsenal.

Here is an unfinished model using only Pan Pastels. It has not been over sprayed, but you'll have to rub hard to get in on you hands. Most likely won't set it as it really doesn't need it.

@up148 posted:

Lee Turner, who I consider one of the greatest, if not the greatest, O scale weathering artists told me he uses everything on his models before he's done with them. Chalks, acrylics and oils and then sets them with some brand of dull coat paint.

That being said, I've used just about every brand of chalks and powders over the years, but quit using them about two years ago when I learned about Pan Pastels. Much, much finer pigment (Like women's pancake make-up) which adheres to the model much quicker and easier. Will it lighten when over coated with a clear coat...........yes...........but much less than most chalks. Fantastic for chalk, but only one component of the arsenal.

Here is an unfinished model using only Pan Pastels. It has not been over sprayed, but you'll have to rub hard to get in on you hands. Most likely won't set it as it really doesn't need it.

This is great. Thanks for sharing your experience. The box car looks great. I just ordered a few Pan Pastel colors to begin some experiments. I'm finishing a cabin car caboose and I'm beginning the weathering stage.

I just reread an old email from a friend, where we were discussing weathering and chalks in particular. He told me about a spray on fixative, made to go over chalks without changing colors or consistency. Did a search and found it had all 5 star reviews on Amazon, which happens seldom to never, so I'm assuming it's a good product. Not cheap, but it apparently works. Ammo Pigment Fixer.

https://www.amazon.com/AMMO-MI...colour/dp/B00KMNZ8G6

Not cheap for sure. $17.44/35ml = $1886.00/ gallon and you think house paint is expensive nowadays.

Pete