Dumbest question ever posted!!!!

You are right to think about your cat !   with at least 18 to 22 volts going to track ,  You could hurt your cat !!!   The Tinsel should not be near the trains at all !  The Tinsel could short out the DCS system .   I would run the train in conventional for the Christmas season!    JUST my two cents ! 

People still put tinsel on their tree?

Seriously, set your throttle at the voltage you are going to run, then put your hand across all 3 rails. Feel anything? Now think about what you would feel with a layer of fur between your bare skin and the track.

I have had dogs and cats around trains for years, and NEVER even got a yelp, never mind an injury, my last cat used to walk on the track all the time.

Yep, not only was "Christmas Vacation" Hollywood Exaggeration to the extreme, it was also straight household current at 5-6 times the voltage that you would ever see on your track.

Doug

ClarkA posted:

I've put up a train under the tree for years running the basic transformer.  This year I did the leap into DCS, and thanks to Eric Segal (who could sell Smack to Joel Osteen), I purchased the MTH NYC 20th Century Limited set w/ add-ons.  My concern is this "Constant Voltage" deal with DCS and the possibility of getting a new kitty.  If by chance the new cat wanders onto the tracks and has wet/damp/piece of tinsel on the paws, will the voltage knock her out of her fur socks?  No really, this is a concern.  I guess I've watched Christmas Vacation too many times.  Yes, I'm attempting at being humorous, but also truly concerned. 

Thanks, Clark

Hello 

You really don't have to worry about that as cats are lot smarter than people take them for.  Most cats don't like the train noises even the whistles.  I have 4 cats myself and the real problem is the hair which will find its way on the tracks and the wheel axles even the side gears of the diesel locomotives.  The best is to keep them out of the room where running the trains is concerned as that what I did.  Its a real pain to have spend time removing the hairs from the roller pick ups and wheel axles. You will have to watch the kitty closely as to prevent injuries.  The Christmas Vacation movie is my favorite Christmas type movies !!!

"The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son.  They will name him Immanuel. (Immanuel means 'God with us') Matthew 1:23 ERV (Easy to read version)

Tiffany

Tom Blevins posted:

People still put tinsel on their tree?

Wouldn't have it any other way

Yes they will feel it.  My pup got buzzed the other day while I had a loop up.  She stuck her nose on the track and quickly jumped so it could potentially be an uncomfortable tingle but I doubt any long term or severe problems.

In all the years I've done that I've shocked myself once or twice...a pet may possibly get the same effect, if they came into contact with it long enough, doubtful.  

Okay for the cats sake do not use tinsel it can get in there digestive system and hurt the cat. For your trains sake as stated it can get wrapped around your axles/wheels and even get into your gears. Do away with tinsel for your Cat's sake and your train sake ( I'm more concerned about your Cat than the trains, trains can be repaired ) 

Dumbest question ever posted? Doubtful...  It tells me that you are a responsible pet owner.

If you lay a clean dry hand across the rails, chances are you won't feel a thing.  But if your hand happens to be damp (think of a cat cleaning itself) chances are you will feel it.  At 18-22 volts, conditions would have to be perfect to get enough current flowing to cause a problem.  In my opinion, if the cat was unlucky and he just finished cleaning himself and then stepped on the rails, it would only be uncomfortable enough so that he wouldn't do it again.

My cat avoids the trains while they are running.  I sometimes wake up in the morning to find signs she was investigating though.  Just be sure the layout is off while you are not using it.  Remember, the chronometer in your DCS engine is running anytime there is voltage on the track regardless of whether it is powered up or not too.

Tony

First of all, its 18 volts. Not really enough to cause any pain because of the external resistance of the skin. It wont hurt you or yoru cat but might give a little tingle in you touch the rails. I lean my arms accross my live tracks all the time and its not always obvious that im getting a shock. Wont hurt you , wont hurt the cat

rtraincollector posted:

Okay for the cats sake do not use tinsel it can get in there digestive system and hurt the cat. For your trains sake as stated it can get wrapped around your axles/wheels and even get into your gears. Do away with tinsel for your Cat's sake and your train sake ( I'm more concerned about your Cat than the trains, trains can be repaired ) 

What Bill said. The tinsel is a potentially serious (lethal?) risk to your cat. 

And, at the risk of running this thread off the rails, this will be an indoor cat, correct? With the data that we now have, I would contend that it is no longer morally acceptable to keep an outdoor cat.

A) Indoor cats live much, much longer. The average lifespan for an outdoor cat is 1-5 years. The average lifespan for an  indoor cat is 12-20 years. (More info.)

B) Indoor cats lead much more comfortable, healthy lives. Outdoor cats get injured in fights, and carry parasites and diseases, some of which are fatal to humans, including rabies & toxoplasmosis. (More info.)

C) Outdoor cats are one of the world's worst invasive species, killing billions of birds & tens of billions of small mammals annually in the United States alone. They are literally driving species into extinction. (More info.)

You serious Clark?

But really, just skip the tinsel. There's tons of people on here who post pictures of cats patrolling their layouts.

The purfect solution is no cat, but that would not be the perfect solution for the owners!

In my experience, which echos those above, the cat is more of a concern for the layout than the layout is for the cat. Have you ever tried to get cat hair out of axles and greasy gears?

Not a dumb question, but I have been known to wet my fingers to check for track voltage on MTH Realtrax (I have a love/hate relationship with that track system).  Even with the ZW at full throttle, the voltage has never hurt me, although I feel it.  I may sensitive part of the body like the nose may get more sensation, but still not enough to injure.  you can't really get enough amp draw through most transformers to do any real damage anyway.  

If you want dumb questions, spend some time over on the Real trains forum; you'll either be amused or depressed...

Borden Tunnel posted:

If you want dumb questions, spend some time over on the Real trains forum; you'll either be amused or depressed...

Because everyone here works on a real RR.  No question is dumb.  If someone can learn something from a perceived "dumb question" then it wasn't really dumb.

Phew, just making sure they weren't talking about me! 

For whatever good it's worth:  All through my teenage years I ran a fairly massive carpet central each weekend throughout the living room and hall.  Not a weekend would go by without a massive derailment due to one of the nine cats we had at the time sleeping on the tracks somewhere.  Point of the story, I don't think there's any serious danger to the cat from the low-voltage track power.  I imagine that is there was moisture and such that would cause the kitten to catch a jolt, they would hop back quick enough.  I would be much more worried about the chewing on lights and such.  On the other hand, we had one idiot cat that liked to bite on mains level line cords and never managed to kill them selves.  As others have noted, the cat fur can be a real problem, so take care to regularly sweep fur off the track and clean the wheels, rollers, and gears.  

JGL

No dumb questions, but there can be dumb answers.

Case in point:

Try touching your tongue across the terminals of a 9 volt battery. You can get quite a tingle from just 9 volts. 18 to 22 volts could be a real kick! Not that the cat would be sticking its tongue across the rails, but with cats one never knows. I have found tinsel encased in the stuff in the litter box before.

we have three cats, used to have four (wife is an animal addict). One that we lost a couple years ago used to love to lay under the tree. have never had one get sapped on the track. But one does like the icicles...finding it in the sandbox all the time.

It will be fine.......  Biggest worry if the cats bold enough to stand on tracks when a trains coming and get hit and I don't think there's a cat out there that bold.... Put up your trains no worries.

Also, the tinsel made today is non conductive.

handyandy posted:

No dumb questions, but there can be dumb answers.

Case in point:

Try touching your tongue across the terminals of a 9 volt battery. You can get quite a tingle from just 9 volts. 18 to 22 volts could be a real kick! Not that the cat would be sticking its tongue across the rails, but with cats one never knows. I have found tinsel encased in the stuff in the litter box before.

Your cat wont be doing it a second time. It may cause her to jump but little more. Farmers have been using electrified fencing for decades and I know of no dead cows, dogs, dear, OR CATS  for that matter from such fencing. 

yup...I got sapped once in a tender area......going thru a farmer's fence to check out an old Plymouth the farmer had given me. Never did it again!

True Story, When I bought my home in 1984 we had a back room window that the local pigeons love to sit on the ledge and mess down the wall.

I placed a length of three rail track and some flyer track next to it, along the ledge and placed a KW on both with full power. Well, the pigeons where soon gone with no dead bodies on the ground.

say this did happen, you know what you are having for Christmas dinner ...

gg1man posted:

handyandy posted:

No dumb questions, but there can be dumb answers.

Case in point:

Try touching your tongue across the terminals of a 9 volt battery. You can get quite a tingle from just 9 volts. 18 to 22 volts could be a real kick! Not that the cat would be sticking its tongue across the rails, but with cats one never knows. I have found tinsel encased in the stuff in the litter box before.

Your cat wont be doing it a second time. It may cause her to jump but little more. Farmers have been using electrified fencing for decades and I know of no dead cows, dogs, dear, OR CATS  for that matter from such fencing. 

 

Electrified fences are all voltage and very little current.  Voltage gets your attention.  It's current that kills.  If you pet can't get off the tracks for some reason, they'll get the full current output of the transformer.

Rusty

It's 18 volts, not 180. Please.

If you short your Speidel metal watchband across the rails at 18 volts, the watchband will heat up and cause a sunburn-like welt on your wrist before the breaker kicks. Ask me how I know this.

But - these little choo-choo tracks pose no danger to your cats unless so long as they keep their Speidel watchbands off the tracks.

Who uses tinsel anymore? Heck, who wears Speidel watchbands anymore? Besides me.

Xmas tree tinsel was made from extruded lead (yes) when I was a kid. Modern tinsel is plastic. The lead type was so much more fun to put on the tree - good heft; it throws well. Don't eat it.

They can get the voltage tingle through the sensitive part of the paw but it won't really hurt them. I have felt it a time or two myself.

You won't get a fried pussy cat though. With a cat in the tree John might get one.

Tom Blevins posted:

People still put tinsel on their tree?

Back in the postwar era, the tinsel used to be aluminum foil and yes it was exciting for 3.29 milliseconds when it hit the track.  I haven't noticed any conductivity our Christmas tinsel in many, many years.

aussteve posted:

Tom Blevins posted:

People still put tinsel on their tree?

Back in the postwar era, the tinsel used to be aluminum foil and yes it was exciting for 3.29 milliseconds when it hit the track.  I haven't noticed any conductivity our Christmas tinsel in many, many years.

That's because "tinsel" is now some sort of vinyl material, i.e. NOT electrically  conductive. I don't think metallic "tinsel" has been available for many decades.

Alas, once tinsel became non metallic and a long chain hydrocarbon high tech micro fiber substitute for the original, Christmas has never been the same.  Might have to go to Mexico to get the real thing anymore.  Feliz Navidad amigos.

I remember back in the 50's when tinsel was made out of some type of metal material containing a lot of lead. It conducted electricity really well!!

Jeff

Not a dumb question at all; in fact, quite relevant for collectors of the really old stuff.....

First time he gets buzzed and jumps, you'll laugh and say, stupid cat.  Second time he lets out a howl, you may say, stupid cat, stay off my track.  If he comes back for more, he's a stupid cat.  Not much you can do about that.  

As always, cheers.

Tiffany posted:

ClarkA posted:

I've put up a train under the tree for years running the basic transformer.  This year I did the leap into DCS, and thanks to Eric Segal (who could sell Smack to Joel Osteen), I purchased the MTH NYC 20th Century Limited set w/ add-ons.  My concern is this "Constant Voltage" deal with DCS and the possibility of getting a new kitty.  If by chance the new cat wanders onto the tracks and has wet/damp/piece of tinsel on the paws, will the voltage knock her out of her fur socks?  No really, this is a concern.  I guess I've watched Christmas Vacation too many times.  Yes, I'm attempting at being humorous, but also truly concerned. 

Thanks, Clark

Hello 

You really don't have to worry about that as cats are lot smarter than people take them for.  Most cats don't like the train noises even the whistles.  I have 4 cats myself and the real problem is the hair which will find its way on the tracks and the wheel axles even the side gears of the diesel locomotives.  The best is to keep them out of the room where running the trains is concerned as that what I did.  Its a real pain to have spend time removing the hairs from the roller pick ups and wheel axles. You will have to watch the kitty closely as to prevent injuries.  The Christmas Vacation movie is my favorite Christmas type movies !!!

"The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son.  They will name him Immanuel. (Immanuel means 'God with us') Matthew 1:23 ERV (Easy to read version)

Tiffany

Like Tiffany says...

Why the negativity toward tinsel??

MattR posted:

Tom Blevins posted:

People still put tinsel on their tree?

Wouldn't have it any other way

....and each piece strategically placed - on at a time.  BTW it's got to be lead tinsel.