Has anyone purchased one of the DZ-2001 Data Wire Drivers and had luck right out of the box getting it to work connected to the Legacy Base ? Is there some kind of modification needed ?
Thanks !
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Yes I have the data wire driver and it works correctly with the Legacy base. I only have it and a TMCC base hooked to it. If you have more then 1 or 2 devices connected to the Legacy base there can be communications problems between the base and the devices hooked to it.
Some of the Data Wire Drivers have 470 ohm resistors to limit current to the optocouplers. This will draw 6.5mA of current (allowing 1.1V for the LED), and that will sag the Legacy Base serial output voltage to about 4.1V.
A TPC input takes anywhere from 1.0 to 1.6 mA to operate properly, depending upon the sensitivity of the input optocoupler on the TPC, and this takes from 3.1 to 4.3V of drive. This extra load of 1.0 to 1.6 ma will further sag the Legacy Base serial output to 3.4 to 3.0V. My tests indicate that my TPC requires 3.2V to operate properly.
This indicates that the combination of the Data Wire Driver with 470 ohm resistor and one TPC is on the borderline of operation, but it may work with a "nominal sensitivity" optocoupler in the TPC. Two TPCs, however, will probably not work.
ZStuff has changed some units to reduce the current consumption by increasing the resistance to higher than the 470 ohm value.
A 470 ohm resistor has color bands of yellow, violet and brown. This resistor is connected between terminals X1-2/X2-2 and terminal 1 on the 4N35 optocoupler. Pin 1 is usually denoted by a dot on one corner of the plastic case.
An optional choice is adding a MANCO Booster, which can supply a Data Wire Driver and over 20 TPCs simultaneously.
A TPC input takes anywhere from 1.0 to 1.6 mA to operate properly, depending upon the sensitivity of the input optocoupler on the TPC, and this takes from 3.1 to 4.3V of drive. This extra load of 1.0 to 1.6 ma will further sag the Legacy Base serial output to 3.4 to 3.0V. My tests indicate that my TPC requires 3.2V to operate properly.
This indicates that the combination of the Data Wire Driver with 470 ohm resistor and one TPC is on the borderline of operation, but it may work with a "nominal sensitivity" optocoupler in the TPC. Two TPCs, however, will probably not work.
ZStuff has changed some units to reduce the current consumption by increasing the resistance to higher than the 470 ohm value.
A 470 ohm resistor has color bands of yellow, violet and brown. This resistor is connected between terminals X1-2/X2-2 and terminal 1 on the 4N35 optocoupler. Pin 1 is usually denoted by a dot on one corner of the plastic case.
An optional choice is adding a MANCO Booster, which can supply a Data Wire Driver and over 20 TPCs simultaneously.
The latest DZ2001 I saw has a surface mount 390 ohm resistor in series with opto isolator input led.
Regardless, if you are using the Legacy base, Dale's booster amp is the way to go. The layout that I was involved with had these same issues of inadequate drive from the CAB2 base, and with the booster amp I built, all the drive issues are resolved.
Regardless, if you are using the Legacy base, Dale's booster amp is the way to go. The layout that I was involved with had these same issues of inadequate drive from the CAB2 base, and with the booster amp I built, all the drive issues are resolved.
I have the original version of the DZ-2001 and when it was connected to the Legacy system it worked well. I had six devices including the DZ-2001 connected to the Legacy system when I was using it and did not have any issues. The two TPC 300's are programmed as engines so perhaps that is why I did not need any type of booster.
I've since gone back to using the CAB1 system and have not had any issues to date.
To quote Fred Thompson from the Hunt for Red October. "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it"
I've since gone back to using the CAB1 system and have not had any issues to date.
To quote Fred Thompson from the Hunt for Red October. "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it"
Unfortunately, any opto-coupled device hanging on the serial output will be drawing current, regardless of how it is programmed.
Did your DZ-2001 have the red indicator LED for signal activity? The schematic Dennis sent me has such a LED, and it should draw about 10mA just for the indicator LED. Removing that LED and raising the input resistor's value would cut the loading on the Legacy output quite a bit. I believe some Forum members are doing just that.
Legacy could probably drive 7 or 8 TPCs that have optocouplers with "nominal" sensitivity. The problem gets bad in a hurry when the current version of the DZ-2001 is included.
Did your DZ-2001 have the red indicator LED for signal activity? The schematic Dennis sent me has such a LED, and it should draw about 10mA just for the indicator LED. Removing that LED and raising the input resistor's value would cut the loading on the Legacy output quite a bit. I believe some Forum members are doing just that.
Legacy could probably drive 7 or 8 TPCs that have optocouplers with "nominal" sensitivity. The problem gets bad in a hurry when the current version of the DZ-2001 is included.
Trainman9, the individual results vary with the individual samples of the devices. But,mostly the results are that the drive power of the Legacy is minimal and although the cab1 had some leeway, the cab2 does not. As Dale said, just wiring them up is the what matters...not how they're programmed.
quote:But,mostly the results are that the drive power of the Legacy is minimal
A poor design and in my opinion a major flaw. As I have said before while the Legacy system does have some neat features it is a work in progress. Part of the problem stems from the changes made from the initial design phase.
Actually it's not a flaw as such. The output was redone (for Legacy) to the standard for RS232. This kind of serial RS232 is not meant to drive a bunch of opto-isolators and was done (I think) so that the output is compatible with computer serial inputs. Normally, I believe, a serial port is meant to drive one computer serial input and as well, and not with a long cable...something like 10 feet or so. The flaw, if there is one other than unintended consequences, is Lionel not providing a booster amp to drive these other previous devices. Backward compatibility.
But, a door closes, and a door opens and Dale is providing a nice one...even with pass thru for the future computer connection. I would buy that one, the one with the pass thru serial port.
But, a door closes, and a door opens and Dale is providing a nice one...even with pass thru for the future computer connection. I would buy that one, the one with the pass thru serial port.
Chuck,
Your point is well taken after all the TMCC technology is, in the electronics world, quite old. The trouble is that I think Lionel's thinking is a bit short sited for the times. They should have left the serial port alone since it worked with all their other devices and added a USB port for communication with present or future computer devices. This would have brought them more into the present and could have been done with very little additional electronics. Almost nobody uses a serial port any more and most computers now days don't even have one. Yes I know they have that port for that memory module but I would be willing to bet that that is non standard. They try so hard and come up with some good ideas and then shoot themselves in the foot.
Al
Your point is well taken after all the TMCC technology is, in the electronics world, quite old. The trouble is that I think Lionel's thinking is a bit short sited for the times. They should have left the serial port alone since it worked with all their other devices and added a USB port for communication with present or future computer devices. This would have brought them more into the present and could have been done with very little additional electronics. Almost nobody uses a serial port any more and most computers now days don't even have one. Yes I know they have that port for that memory module but I would be willing to bet that that is non standard. They try so hard and come up with some good ideas and then shoot themselves in the foot.
Al
I like what you say. I kind of wonder too about these changes even though I try to make sense of it. I haven't had a serial port in years, but even some of the latest ham radio receivers still have them. I've been using FTDI serial to USB adapters (which work well as opposed to some others) for serial ports on Win7 and Lion.
Maybe they think we're all curmudgeons with our serial ports and Western Electric dial phones in these hobbies.
Maybe they think we're all curmudgeons with our serial ports and Western Electric dial phones in these hobbies.
quote:Maybe they think we're all curmudgeons with our serial ports and Western Electric dial phones in these hobbies.
I resemble that remark!!
I've been helping a friend with his layout. He had TMCC and 3 PowerMasters and a DZ-2001 Data Driver. He got Legacy and instead of the Bridge he wanted to get TPC's. That's were the problems began. If I connected the DZ=2001 the TPS's wouldn't work. If I only connected the TPC's two of them worked fine but the third was intermittent.
I contacted Dale and he sent me his Booster. I connected it to the Serial Comm half of the Y cable, then the DZ 2001, then the wires for the TPC's and now everything is working fine with the Legacy remote and the Cab 1.
Thanks Dale
I contacted Dale and he sent me his Booster. I connected it to the Serial Comm half of the Y cable, then the DZ 2001, then the wires for the TPC's and now everything is working fine with the Legacy remote and the Cab 1.
Thanks Dale
Hopefully Dale can advertise this in other venues and get enough revenue to fund more new developments. 
I purchased one of Dale Manquen's Manco Boosters and have installed it. WOW, what a difference it has made. I installed it the same way Steve Musso installed his. Before installing the booster I was having all kinds of problems getting the DZ-2001A, two TPC's and a Block Power Controller to work right with the Legacy system. I will be adding another TPC and Block Power Controller very shortly as I'm still wiring up my layout. I have no doubt they also will work correctly. I highly recommend his Booster, it works.
Bob
