Electrical plan

Mike, I never thought of getting old when I started my layout 35 years. 2 things I would do different. My layout is around 42 inches high. I would go higher at least 8 or 10 inches. I also would bring all my wiring and terminal points right to the layouts edge. Hide it with an easily removable or hinged fascia. No more crawling under the layout looking up at wires going all different directions. Sitting on a rolling chair or stool in the aisle is the way to go. Even if you don’t mind working under the layout. Right where you pile  up supplies or boxes will be the area that requires attention at some point.

Dave that is a great idea! I hate working under the layout on wiring.  But I also don't want it to high.

My quest was to have someone point out where I should put drops, and breaks for blocks.

Seeing you are running DCS. The first thing is probably find the location for the TIU. To the right of your whisker tracks for the turntable could work as it’s centralized for wire runs and is right there as you enter the layout through the lift bridge. Your power supply can go right near it. I’d go under the layout with everything as that will give you a 3 ft. Reach from either side so you are not reaching over them.
I would start with the outer main. The one that’s sort of purple on the plan. I’d follow Barry’s or MTH’s recommended paired wiring. Bring the paired wires back to a terminal strip not far from the TIU. Once that’s laid and wired I would start running trains and testing the track signal. It’s pretty straightforward except for a few turnouts so I don’t see any issues. I would just work my way inward from there laying track and Test, Test and Re Test as you go along. If something comes up it will be easy to diagnose and solve. This way you can figure out how much track you can put on a given channel and still retain a good track signal. I would save your one last channel for the yard on the peninsula.

Hi Dave, that should work ok as I have an outlet against the wall opposite the TT. I will have to figure out blocks and which handle runs what. My last layout one handle ran the main level and the other ran the upper level, don't know if that is the correct method but that what I had!

Mike, handling power on your lift bridges is easily done. But as you start blocking the RR any track just to the left of the lift bridges would have a bit of a run back to the TIU terminal strips. Maybe use some plastic conduit or something and run some wiring up and over the door rather than counter clockwise around most of the layout.

Hi Dave what your saying is easy to do, I just not sure where to put blocks.

It looks like your lift bridge pivots at right around the 6 o clock point looking at the plan and would be a natural break in the center rail on your outer loop. I think you could get by with 4 blocks on your outer loop. With breaks in the rail at 9, 12 and 3 o clock. I’d place your paired feeders sort of in the middle of these blocks. Then run them to your terminal strip. Then test it all out. Once your satisfied the inner loop looks to be close to the same with a few more turnouts involved.
I’m really not that familiar with Scaletrax or how their turnouts are electrically connected as far as the rails giving you a natural break at the center rail. If you aren’t in need of an isolated outside rail for signals or grade crossings. I’d jumper the outside rails in each block  There is no pin to remove to insulate sections. But I’m sure there is a way and I suppose you could always just Dremel cut the rail.

My layout is all 3 foot flex Gargraves. Every section wired with very long blocks. Common ground buss wiring. I used mostly turnouts to create blocks if they were in a convient spot. Way before DCS. Layout runs perfectly with a wiring pattern that’s not suppose to yield good results.

Thanks Dave I will try and draw something up on my scarm file this week and post it for you to see.

Mike, I made a new power block for every track segment between two switches.  That ended up being a lot, but I can switch any of them off or on, so an engine can be parked anywhere with no power.  It should aid in troubleshooting as well, though I have not had to put that to the test.

Mike

I run with Lionel Tmcc and Legacy no DCC.  The changes I would make in retrospect is to put all of my tortoise switch machines along the edges of the layout and use Wago lever locks for all my electrical connections instead of wire nuts especially for some of the very small wires.  The lever locks are easy to use,  much easier to group a bunch of wires and to trace a problem if one occurs.

Marty

I would suggest that you get some tags/labels and mark them up as you proceed. It can also be helpful to label them in various places along their run. At least you’ll have an organized spaghetti factory. Mark it up on paper too.

Jay

Hey Mike,

What transformer(s) will you be using and are you planning on running conventional at all or just command control ?

Hi guys thanks for all the information!

Jay I really like the idea of labels, I have a label maker I can use.  Great idea!

Richie I will be using a MTH Z4000 and I plan on running both as I have some pre war engines my grandkids found and gave to me for a birthday gift.

Again thank you everyone for great ideas! When I get done with more insulation and sheetrock I will try to get back to the plan!

I'd probably pick up another transformer to use for the yard and roundhouse trackage, maybe a used/refurbished KW.  I'd hook up one handle of the Z-4K to a TIU channel and then out to a 24 port MTH distribution board and then out to your blocks on the outer main. I'd do the same with the other handle and another 24 port distribution board and out to blocks on the inner main loop. With 24 power drops per loop that should be more than enough. Actually, you may be able to just use 12 port MTH boards if you think 12 drops per main will be sufficient using a standard number of track sections per block. Since you'll be running command and conventional, you can use the variable inputs on the TIU. I'd connect each drop about in the center of each block.

I'd then use the KW (or similar) to power the yard and roundhouse tracks using another 12 port MTH board and toggle switches (and possibly a DCS signal generator) controlling each track.

I'd also think about using different colored wire for each main, the yard and accessories.

Obviously, you can run the 14 acv and 10 acv accessory outputs of the Z-4K to separate boards for distribution to accessories.

May be better ways to skin a cat, but just my $0.02 !

@Richie C. posted:

I'd probably pick up another transformer to use for the yard and roundhouse trackage, maybe a used/refurbished KW.  I'd hook up one handle of the Z-4K to a TIU channel and then out to a 24 port MTH distribution board and then out to your blocks on the outer main. I'd do the same with the other handle and another 24 port distribution board and out to blocks on the inner main loop. With 24 power drops per loop that should be more than enough. Actually, you may be able to just use 12 port MTH boards if you think 12 drops per main will be sufficient using a standard number of track sections per block. Since you'll be running command and conventional, you can use the variable inputs on the TIU. I'd connect each drop about in the center of each block.

I'd then use the KW (or similar) to power the yard and roundhouse tracks using another 12 port MTH board and toggle switches (and possibly a DCS signal generator) controlling each track.

I'd also think about using different colored wire for each main, the yard and accessories.

Obviously, you can run the 14 acv and 10 acv accessory outputs of the Z-4K to separate boards for distribution to accessories.

May be better ways to skin a cat, but just my $0.02 !

Hi Richie, I am taking a break from the train room today, I got all the insulation up yesterday and tomorrow is rain so it will be a good day to be in the train room working on sheetrock.

I am going to try and implement your idea on my scarm plan today and I will let you know how it goes! I guess I am going to have to look for another transformer. I have a really old Lionel one, but I don't know anything about it and its in a box somewhere! LOL

Hey Richie, would this work?

https://ogrforum.com/topic/18-...k-power-from-menards

No, Mike - that's a DC transformer and won't work.

I'd look for a refurb Lionel like a 1044 or KW and add some circuit protection. If it's a hassle, I'd look for a modern transformer with up to date circuit protection to power the yard and whisker tracks, like a new CW-80 or Z-1000. Make sure to phase them if you go that route.

Ok Thank you for that information! I am working on my drawing, but at the rate I am going it will be time to run trains by the time I get done! LOL

I think I have a Lionel 1044 in a box somewhere in the pile of train stuff I have!

I didn't know you had to phase Z4000 and say a  CW-80 or a Z-1000.

Mike; a few comments that may be useful LOL! My layout is close to 30 years old, built long before DCS, when TMCC was just in its infancy. Its all old school block wired, with center rail block insulators. It has no right to work as well as it does, but I have run TMCC/Legacy/DCS now for about 15 years and all works quite well. Overall size is 14' x 22' with about 400 feet total track, so it is similar size to your planned layout. Switch and accessory power are supplied via separate dedicated supplies.

I run one TIU only with all channels in use. Variables are set to fixed, and one Z-4000 supplies all track power. Each Z-4000 output is split to two of the TIU inputs. Power distribution is by Curtis barrier terminal strips. I can run several trains at once, but rarely run more than two. Passenger cars are all converted to strip led lighting so they draw only a small fraction of what incandescent lit cars would. I run only command, no conventional these days.

Track wiring does not follow a well defined star pattern, and the blocks are not powered by wire pairs at all. Blocks are switched by several ganged Atlas 4 pole A-B switches (that have been around for decades). I have a TT with 12 whisker tracks, selected by one rotary 12 pole switch. Another 12 pole rotary switch powers any one of 9 different main yard tracks. A 6 pole rotary powers tracks in a secondary yard. A DCS remote commander with a perpetual watchdog chip injects continuous watchdog signals into the yard and TT tracks so that any DCS engine on the selected track stays dark until startup.

I use TVS's on all transformer outputs as well as at major terminal strip points. I can run TMCC. Legacy and DCS all at the same time without interference. And it has all worked amazingly well! Better than it has any right to!

Rod

About layout height; I am 6'-3" and the main level at 42" high seems to work well. I can still get under it to do what's needed, though it's surely not as easy as 25 years ago! There is lots of storage space underneath still, plus most things can be reached without the need of a step stool. There are 3 popups located where needed to get to any problems that may occur.

Rod

Thanks Rod, my last 2 layouts have been BUSS wire set up with DCS and I always had 10 most of the way around the track, but I had a lot of power drops. Where I didn't have good signal was my fault due to dirty tracks!

The reason I asked about an electrical plan is I know on my last 2 layouts I forgot things and its been awhile without even seeing what I have. LOL I just don't want to forget anything this time and who know, with all the smart people here there might be something I can do that is a lot easier for me!

Mike