End of Steam at Disney World?

I know this is supposed to be about the trains, but the first thought I had in that photo was that the Mickey flower bed is way too small!  (though not being familiar with Hong Kong, I'm sure there could be a good explanation somewhere as to why)

-Dave

Walt would NOT be happy...  Not only with this but with ALOT of what is going on these days with Disney.. Walt was a business man.. But he would NOT have sacrificed every aspect of the Disney experience for profits as the Disney Corp does these days..

Jim, the gauge at the two domestic Disney parks is three-foot gauge. The four engines in Florida are all Baldwin engines, which were rebuilt for the Park at a Florida shipyard. They were originally exports to the Yucatan.

Of the five engines in CA, three are Baldwins, and two were built specially for the Park.

Native Central Floridian here, with probably ~100 visits to the parks under my belt and countless rides on these wonderful locomotives.  There's something larger at work here, and I've watched the change over the last 30 years... that Disney spirit of both innovation and preservation is not there.  It's now about producing a product for consumption.

Its been covered already in this thread, but 99.99% of park visitors absolutely do not care about this, and as such, it's an unnecessary cost.  Even as a kid when I visited with friends, I would always point out that they were real steam, and no one cared.  People take these trains to either catch a break from walking or to get from one end of the park to the other.  That's it.

Frankly, I'm surprised they've lasted to 2014, and I'll bet they've been a target on someone's spreadsheet for a good while.

Is this written in stone that they are definitely phasing out the oil burner steam locomotives in Florida.  Considering Walt Disney was such a Train enthusiasts with his cast of cronies including Ward Kimball, you would think this would be sacrilege but they are all long gone and a new regime has other ideas. What of the Great Movies and cartoons such as ," The Great Locomotive Chase" one of Disney's early hits.

Most people today know nothing about the history of railroads and the only steam locomotive they see is Thomas the Tank engine on TV.  Mt. Washington NH bought a few bio-diesel loco's for their Cog Railway and they run one steam coal burner just in the morning.

Very Narrow minded, but it sounds like its all about maintenance costs, operating cost, profit margins & return value for shareholders.

It is "99%" certain. There is always the chance that something could change.

And as I am hearing it, "steam" would be gone completely, not even for special occasions.

If its 99% chance it doesn't sound good for the Lilly Belles.  What becomes of the Lilly Belle, permanent parking spot in front of the station or scrapped? I think they could sell this equipment for a profit. Oh well.

What you're not understanding is that "Disney" isn't some monolithic company. Each division has to run and be profitable on its own. And smaller divisions within each larger division--say, the steam department inside the Magic Kingdom theme park in FL--must strive for profitability as well.

When you can eliminate much of your maintenance staff, along with half your locomotive operating crew (diesel-hydraulics are single-operator--they don't need firemen), along with all their accumulated benefits, then you can see that the "numbers" actually do make sense. Especially since lots of park guests don't even notice or care that there are real steam trains gliding by, as many here seem to attest. From a purely financial point of view, the option to eliminate steam is justifiable. As our fearless leader Rich Melvin is fond of saying, "Steam locomotives don't burn coal or oil...they burn money!"

Unfortunately, I believe taking out the steam trains will gut some of the very soul of the Park, while saving some dough. Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me.

As I understand it, the Lilly Belle will be returned from her Strasburg rebuild, and will be put on display, since she'll be basically a brand-new engine.

Jeff Remy is the forum member that is an engineer at Disneyland, believe its been almost 2 years since he has posted.

As sad as it is to see the live steam locomotives depart, Disney World is so much more than the ring of track that runs around the park.

Rusty

They have most likely made that money back.Remeber what we are talking about here.This is disney a very bigtime company that has gotten even biger in the last few years.That one flop won,t hurt them all that much.Now if they start having flops like they did in the 70s and 80s.Then yea that would hurt them alot.

Jeff last posted Feb 8, 2012.

I believe that the Disneyland railroad in Southern California is not owned by the park.  Walt kept it separate from the park and it is now owned by the family's corporation.  There was some relationship with the Santa Fe, but I believe that has ended. 

I can personally confirm that. While working on a big SD45 overhaul job at the Santa Fe San Bernardino Shops, in 1967, the nice folks there told me on the Santa Fe connection to Disneyland. When eve I had some spare time, I visited Disneyland and ALWAYS used my Santa Fe RR Pass to ride the trains. The Pass also worked at Knotts Berry Farm. 

I'd hate to see real steam leave WDW.....but can I see it happen.....sadly yes.

MY steam locos at Carowinds were removed long ago for much lesser reasons.

I’m sure the dirt people, tree huggers and some incompetent EPA government official has played a part as well.

Want to see steam stay at the Walt Disney World RR? Stop by here: http://www.savedisneysteam.com/ and be sure to sign the petition: https://www.change.org/petitio...ny-save-disney-steam

Thanks!

Done!

Petition signed. The train was a highlight to our trip there in the early 90's. They only have 940 signatures so far. 

 They only have 940 signatures so far. 

My signature made 944, , still need MANY, MANY MORE though

Doug

I just signed as well...keep showing the support.

I did sign up as well.  Does Disney plan on keeping the current engines and converting them over to diesel from steam? I thought they burned oil at the current time.

If they do replace the steam engines this is reminiscent of the Mount Washington Cog Railway in New Hampshire my home state. They converted over to several diesels to cut down on expenses over the older coal burner steam loco's. The Cog RR still runs one steam coal burner in the morning and that's it and on special days etc.

I also went on and tweeter site and signed on, the social media sites like Tweeter and Facebook garner a lot more attention in todays world compared to a petition, so I did both.

Signed.

Added my signature. I know those of us here are the Forum feel this is important because of our relationship with trains, but I bet a large percentage of the general public that goes to the park could care less. Hope the steam can be saved.

As a local with a decent understanding of how modern WDW corporate operates/thinks, I can promise that anything that is of no interest to the general public will change if it will save cost.

Disney's focus on innovation and preservation died with Walt.  It's all about smoke and mirrors now--when authenticity is invisible or meaningless to the average parkgoer, it will be changed or eliminated.

My suggestion would be to plan a trip here to spend some time riding them while you still have the opportunity to do so.  

Yes its kind of a bummer that said "it is what it is". I went on to tweeter and there are not that many tweets so.. I don't know how much interest there are in the steam loco's.  Its something that doesn't effect the majority of the visitors. At least if they WDW would keep the engines for special runs or 1 day a week runs.. I'm dreaming...

Oh trust me, there's plenty of interest in these locomotives. Don't let the numbers on Twitter (or as you say, tweeter) sway you. Disney railroad fans are passionate and have a nicely run forum and a historical society dedicated to the Disney railroad story: http://carolwood.com/

Not to mention many, many folks within the Disney organization from the head of animation, John Lasseter, to the many Disney Railroad employees who are steam fans. All we have to do is make our voices heard.

Signed

If there is no interest in steam, how does Strasburg and assorted other "tourist"

roads manage to survive?  I was only once at DisneyLAND, many years ago...

druther go ride a toursit road.

Disneyland/world/universe is an amusment theme park, not the Walt Disney Scenic Railroad.  People come to be entertained by rides, themed roller coasters, favorite Disney characters, experience fantasy environments, not specifically for a train ride.  They don't just come to ride the train and go home. 

Strasburg and others are railroad oriented, people come specifically to ride a train and/or view railroad artifacts.

The fates allowed me to go to Disneyland twice as a child and Disneyworld once as an adult.  I thoroughly enjoyed myself all three times.

Rusty

This is the word from the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society (http://carolwood.com/):

To: Members of the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society
From: Michael Broggie

While our Society doesn't engage in rumors, lately there's been a flurry of
misinformation and assumptions surrounding the possible conversion to
Diesel-hydraulic, or the replacement, of the vintage Baldwin steam engines at
Walt Disney World.  This message is to inform our members that this is
not going to happen, now or for the foreseeable future.  Please share this
information with anyone who values Walt's legacy of preserving America's steam
railroad history.

Thank you.

Michael Broggie
Carolwood Pacific Historical Society

Good news. I hope indeed that is the case.

Or the steames at WDW could be replaced, and the present ones sent to DL in California.

Good news! so all the tweeter and Facebook sites have it wrong?

Wouldn't be the first time.

Not at all. Calmer heads prevailed, and the situation was averted. The project was well along--to the point of soliciting bids from several diesel-hydraulic manufacturers.

That's welcome news, for the moment.

Unfortunately, if eliminating that expense is on someone's radar, it's only a matter of time until the issue is raised again.