ERR RailSounds baffle fitting

No schematics available for the R2(4)LC, but the locations of the I/O triacs are well known.  These are by far the most common failure items as a rule.  A brief short to the chassis of any of the outputs and the triac is gone.  I keep lots of spares for that reason.

Thanks.  Next question: The rear/front lights on the shell don't light.  I hooked up grain of wheat bulb to the CC, and it did dimly glow.  I don't know if the shell is using bulbs or LEDs. I used a 9V battery, and then 2 in series to test it, but no joy.  Also tried AC.  Do you know what MTH used on the PS1 shells, and how can I test the lights? Also, do you know what the CC outputs on the 'light' terminations, AC or DC and what voltage?  

Thanks,

Dennis

The PS/1 diesel lights are typically 1.5V bulbs, I'd replace them with LED's if it were my upgrade.  The little 1.5V bulbs barely light, they're pretty wimpy.

The CC (really the R2LC lighting outputs) put out half-wave track power in command mode, full wave track power if in conventional mode.  They certainly should like a typical 12V bulb, and they'll smoke those little 1.5V bulbs in the shell instantly.

I'm regretting this upgrade.  So I probably smoked the lights already. I hate to dig them out, but will start doing just that. The 9V battery may have blown them I suppose.  Any LED type you recommend? I could try what I have and see if they light.  I did note that the gain-of-wheat bulb was brighter when connected to a 9V battery than the R2LC.

Dennis

I use plain 3mm flangeless LED's for my upgrades.  You just need a 470 ohm resistor in series with one lead, and the positive side of the LED goes to frame ground, the negative side goes to the headlight output.

Thank you.  My meter confirmed your diagnoses.  Infinity.  Bulbs gone.

Dennis

That's what happens when you put six times the rated voltage to them!

The documentation is lacking.  The output voltages should be specified, including lights, couplers and smoke, as they differ from MTH's and perhaps other mfg's specs.  I looked for those numbers but couldn't find them.

Thanks,

Dennis

Yes, the documentation is lacking, we've known that for a long time.  I now have the R2LC documentation in my head, so I no longer lament it's absence.

Many of us learn this stuff the hard way, smoke, fire, blown bulbs, etc.

Yes, there's a learning curve.  Thanks to this site, and folks like you, it a bit easier.  But 15 minutes work, and the unit's specs could be included in documentation. Not hard, is customary, and it would have saved me some trouble.

Thanks again,

Dennis

J Dennis posted:

But 15 minutes work, and the unit's specs could be included in documentation.

Since that ain't about to happen with old documentation, we just have to learn to live with what we have.

I measure 1.9VAC from both light terminals (4 and 5).  Does that sound correct, with track voltage 18VAC?

Dennis

The measurement will vary widely based on what type of meter you use to read it.  The triac also has to have a load in order to fire.  I just measured one with my true-RMS digital meter, I get around 9VAC and 6VDC with a light bulb load.  Without the lightbulb, the triac doesn't fire and I get less than a volt of residual stray voltage.

John, 

When I apply brakes, I hear squealing even after the engine has stopped. Brakes squeal as long as I hold the brake-button on my cab-1.      Is that normal for the Railsounds board?    None of my Legacy or TMMC engines do that.  With Legacy/TMCC, the break squeals stop when the engine stops.     Also, I've notice a sudden stop, more so than the Legacy or TMCC, which have a more realistic stop.  Is that normal, or should I be looking at something?  Slow motion is very good, better in reverse than forward, but still acceptable, and speed appears consistent.  

Thanks,

Dennis

I just tried that with a CAB1/BASE1 on my test bench with a RS4 equipped locomotive, the brake squeal stops when the locomotive stops.  It takes a second or two after the stop, but it does stop.

John, 

Thank you for testing that!  

I found that if I turn speed down while holding the brake button, the squeal does stop.  But  when I don't touch the speed dial, the squealing will continue - until I dial speed down.  Are you manually dialing back speed while holding the brake?

Dennis

Nope, I just punched the brake button until it stopped.  It squealed a second or so after the stop and then shut up.

Thanks.  I will see what ERR says, but am inclined to live with it.

Dennis

The current ERR sound module is really RS5 based, maybe that does it different...

You're right, the ERR single board RS Commander will squeal as long as you hold the brake.  Also, it'll start when it's stopped by just hitting the brake again.  I never noticed that before.

If you're seeing the same, than mine is 'normal.'  Weird implementation.  I emailed ERR, and will post their response.

Thanks,

Dennis

John,

You mentioned that you use LEDs, but for ease of installation, I used grain of wheat, .075A each.  I've six in the front, and 4 in the rear. After running about 5 minutes, all lights turn off.  Powering down for a few minutes, and they turn on again.  .075A x 6 bulbs =0.45A.    Six .075A bulbs exceed EER specifications (whatever those specs are)?  

Thanks,

Dennis

EER confirmed that the brake squealing on the new boards continues as long as the brake key is active.    And they think six .075A bulbs may be exceeding max current.    I asked what that value is and am waiting an answer.

Thanks,

Dennis

Well, .45A on one of the TO92 triacs is pushing the envelope a bit, I suspect it is getting a bit toasty.  I think you want to limit continuous duty use on those triacs to around .25 amps or less.  You're pushing the envelope a lot with that kind of current.  The specs in question is for the triac on the R2(4)LC, that drives the lights.

For the MAC97xx triac devices, I'd be limiting the current to the .25A as a maximum in our operating environment.  Any more current and the triac should have a heatsink to help dissipate the heat.

Thanks, John.  EER said my guess of 'max current' is as good as theirs, as they get their boards from Lionel.  With this engine in reverse, only four bulbs (0.075A x 4)  light and there's no problem, but six fails.     My next step was to look up the specs, that you have already graciously supplied.  I will work from there, and substitute bulbs for LEDs.  I prefer the look of the bulbs, but their current apparently outmatches the device.  

Otherwise, I'm generally pleased with my first conversion.

The sounds are not as good as my Legacy/TMCC engines, as the RPMs don't closely match the engine's speed. Even my 2001 6-18598 has far superior sound.  But the Railsounds board is still acceptable.     I also found changing from 'large motor' to 'small' fixed the lurching and abrupt stops.  ERR slow speed is as good as Legacy and even LionChief's amazing slow speed.

ERR also replied that they get the sound files from Lionel, which is why the brakes squeal as long as I hold the 'brake' key.  Not sure I understand why a sound file has to be implemented as such, but EER does not consider it a defect or problem.

Dennis

I'm substituting two LEDs for two-bulb 'ditch lights.'   Installed in series, assuming 12V, I get a 270 ohm limiting-resistor. That sound about right? Since LEDs are normally used in DC circuits, any issue with reverse V or current?

Thanks,

Dennis

I include a diode for lights running from the the lighting outputs, other than that you're good.

FWIW, I actually like the look of LED's better, you get much better focused light.  I recently picked up some 3mm warm white defused flangeless LED's, they look just like a nice bright incandescent bulb in color.  The bonus is they don't get hot, and they have focused light from the "top" of the bulb, they're killer steam headlights.  For the ones that I've used in upgrades already, they get rave reviews.  You can get any color temperature LED to match whatever effect you desire with the headlight color, depending on the locomotive era you're lighting.

My pet peeve with incandescent bulbs in headlights is they look more like parking lights.  Headlights actually shine down the tracks in real life, and I like my models to do the same thing.  I get lots of locomotives for conversion to LED lighting, but I've never gotten one for conversion to incandescent lighting.