ExactRail & Genesis in 1:48 O scale

“Besides, O scale has a presence to it that HO will NEVER match. Gauge 1 is beautiful but too BIG, O is almost too big.”

I agree and ironically, I kind of think that we as modelers (and operators) all would have all been better off if S (1/64” scale) would have been the winner and not HO. S scale has significant heft over HO which yields much better electrical and tracking performance and the size makes it more affordable.  S scale’s size is also not so big that it requires a whole lot more space than HO and yet S is the most niche scale of them all.  Go figure… 

Scott

Austin, TX

The 2014 Amherst (Mass.) Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show is coming up in 10-days and many of the manufacturers that we have been talking about, including Atlas, Exact Rail, Athearn, etc. will have factory representation at the show so if anyone has the inclination to swing by their booth and ping them to see what their feelings are about O scale now would be a good time and to also let them know that the natives are getting restless for more O scale offerings .

Exhibitor list:

http://www.railroadhobbyshow.c...20List.1.14.2014.pdf

Scott

Austin, TX

WOW! This topic has turned into why Manufacturers should produce S scale products!  I can't say that I disagree with the points above... I may have to go home and rethink my model train scale...

O Scale has mass, like the prototype. S Scale is nice, but more towards HO, then O, mass-appearance-wise. And will there ever be the variety that we have been fortunate to have been availed in O Scale? In terms of size vs. space, I have a switching diorama and yet operate articulateds doing set-outs. I am quite contented. I don't need Cajon Pass!

I have been absolutely in love with O Scale since my first visit to the old All Nation Hobby Shop in Chicago in 1960, and seeing the stunning (for the time) Max Grey models. But we all make our own decisions! No communism in model railroading!

If Exactrail were to make their AutofloodII cars in O Scale I'd have to acquire too many.

I would be excited about a few more companies entering the O  market with at least one model in the modern era. Being 65 and having over bought to a degree that I have twice more cars than length of track on the layout. I would like to see someone bring an engine to market first using their HO designs in horizontal drives. A modern engine as we need to bring more people into the scale and by having a modern engine we grab younger people into the hobby. many may model what they saw in their youth or now see on the rails. A nice all around engine that ran now and a decade or so earlier. Something they can associate with now and into their future. 

I am about bought out and now see little if anything that  interest me from MTH or Atlas to throw my money at. It has now become buying to have to wants not need and wants is getting slim. So much in boxes and not even put to rails.

MTH dash 9 will possibly be my last model as it comes in scale and I will then have 7 engines from MTH and 5 from Atlas. Enough.

But if one of these companies came into the market with something really enticing I might have to break the piggy bank. It would be nice.

Phill 

I looked at S scale when I entered O scale. It appeared that everything I wanted needed to be scratch built. Since then, MTH entered the picture and Lionel released modern diesels with scale wheels. So maybe for others.

  I'm too far into O gauge to switch now. I'm always looking for modern stuff and would like more. I don't know what Exact rail has? I think some of the RTR 2 rail rolling stock out now, is either too fragile or out of my league, or two rough of detailing and doesn't appeal to me. I struggle to find a balance. Each car I buy now, has to be seen first to see how well it's detailed and built. Atlas modern cars are usually my target now.

 When you say Genesis, do you mean the engine or the Athearn brand??

Joe, In the context of this thread, I think it's safe to assume Erik is talking about Athearn Genesis, Exactrail, etc... producing similar quality products as they do in smaller scales for O Scale.

The biggest problem I had with HO was the inconsistency of everything.  Standards only work when everyone adheres to them strictly without inserting their own interpretation.  Such is the price of incredible diversity.   Couplers and track work was the worst - it was like everything had to be perfect or else chaos would ensue.  With O gauge, I can couple any two cars from any two manufacturers and I can reasonably expect them to stay coupled until I dictate otherwise.  Likewise, if I leave the room for 30 seconds, I can reasonably expect things to be more or less as i left them albeit in a different spot on the layout.  No such guarantees in HO - if I left a train running for more than 30 seconds or so, it was anyone's guess as to what state I would find it in upon my return. Even between cars and engines of the same manufacturer, I had problems.  I call support, and they tell me to "shim it".   I just spent $350 on your E8 A-A set,  how about  you 'shim this'...

To me HO is modelers gauge first and foremost.  Everything is at your disposal but you have to know how to make it all work together.  If you do, it can be very rewarding.  However, if all you want to do is have some fun, make some noise, and run some trains, it can be beyond frustrating.   Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of incredibly talented modelers in O, but you don't HAVE to have the skills to have some fun.  

Oddly enough, I never had any issues with N scale and I still have some of it around.  I can slap together a nice Unitrack layout on the kitchen table in about 20 minutes and tear it down in less than 10.   I think the Unitrack saves me here, because it's very precise by nature, and I stick to Kato across the board for almost everything.   

I'm still not sure where S gauge fits for me.  It's a great size overall, but do we really need another gauge.  I know S is classic, but I worry that ultimately the market won't support it to the point where it becomes interesting to me.   There's just enough diversity and support in O to keep me involved, and if I decide I want more at some point, I'd probably go back to HO hopefully having learned a few lessons from my first foray.  

As far as "space savings" is concerned, I contend that it's all a big myth.  Yes, N and HO are smaller, but you run longer trains and create more complicated layouts.  My train lengths have always been dictated by what I can jam into a siding - if it's 10 cars in O, then that's what I use.  If it's 20 in HO or 35 in N, thats what I use.   I think most of us tend to expand into whatever space we have available regardless of gauge.  Very few people into model railroading acknowledge the concept of "enough" space.  It's an enigma - there is never such a thing as "enough space".  Same goes for cost savings - 20 HO boxcars or 10 O?  Pick your poison.   

I do wish we had more modern-era representation in O.  I have ExactRail stuff in N, and I love it.  Had some in HO as well, and it was good stuff.  But scale wise, the new stuff is largely... large.  How much of it could most of us fit on the layout without chasing the tail?   To me, an O gauge steamer pulling 10-15 boxcars looks reasonably realistic on my layout;  a 5 car intermodal drag with a single engine kind of feels/looks ridiculous.  If ExactRail did bring some of their toys to O gauge, I would 'want' them, but I'm not sure I'd buy them

Wow... that was probably too much.  

Maybe you should.

 I still love O scale,but would only be able to have a very small switching layout at best. With S I can actually run stuff. There certainly is a challenge to modeling in S, but I find that's part of its charm...

Mark in Oregon

I do traction modeling and a much as there is available in HO, I prefer 2 rail O. Much easier to wire the overhead and far easier to kitbash and to detail.....plus the presence of a big Jackson & Sharp two truck car rumbling by....

I only suggest the Autoflood II because they are used in unit trains and thus anyone interested in them would probably be interested in a lot of them, in my case between 75 and 100.  

They have already made this model so they only need to scale it up not start from scratch.  At least from a CAD point of view.

I think it would be great if some of the HO manufacturers got into O gauge. Seems like a couple just got out recently though, Walthers & Bowser come to mind. They were mostly accessories I think, but still in O. I think there is more available in O today then ever before and we should be thankful, I would love to see even more become available.

I also considered S scale when I started back in the hobby a couple years ago. There was just not enough offered in S. I actually prefer O and probably would have chosen that over S even if there was more offered in S.

While my preference is O, S could possibly be the best scale. Small enough to fit more in a smaller space and still have a bit of the mass & feel of the larger O offerings, and also big enough to see when you get older. It is kind of puzzling why S has never taken off like some of the other scales? With MTH entering the S market and Lionel stepping up production, maybe this is the start of S expanding in size?

One can only hope.

 I feel pretty much the same as you, except I went ahead and "took the plunge" into S. To me, it kinda feels like a large HO scale (which I guess it is), or a smaller O scale ( which I guess it is,too).  

All in all,so far I can say I'm happy with the change-over...

Mark in Oregon

You have probably made a good choice, I hope you continue to enjoy it and the new products keep coming your way (and ours too). Your description above was just right, I think. Sure looks like selections in S are improving. Maybe more manufacturers will get into S, who knows?  I have seen some of the new Lionel & MTH offerings in S and they are very nice.

A couple more things S offers is 2 rails, and the best selection of 18 wheelers I've seen. Many are available at very reasonable prices. Finding these in O difficult. Don't get that either? Maybe some of the other manufacturers will start making these in O, I think that would definitely fill a void.

Should have said expanding in product selection above, size was a poor choice of words...

I also had HO when I lived in an apartment.  Even then...too small.

I started to buy Dept 56 Snow Village buildings when my wife and I moved into our first house.  S scale, to me, is the perfect size for Snow Village buildings.  So, I bought a set of diesel engines and passenger cars in S scale for around the Christmas tree.  But, again, just a bit too small for me.

O scale seems to be just the right size for a decent layout as far as building size and train size.  Kind of easy to work on also as far as eyesight and being able to grasp small parts.

G scale, on the other hand, is just a bit too big.  Easy on the eyes and easy to work on but buildings and trains take up a lot of real estate.

Rick

Ummm,  The Autoflood II is a contemporary coal car, a competitor to the RD4.

https://www.exactrail.com/john...-ll-coal-hopper-nrlx

I'm glad that some of you are finding fulfillment is S scale. I have thought about S scale, but it appears that even for the steam/transition modeler, it is a desert with scant little product available....and like O, split between traditional toy train collectors/operaters (think Amercican Flyer) and scale modelers, with a production bias toward the former, just as in O.

For the current prototype modeler, S offers little save the two locomotives that MTH produced, again, held hostage by the DCS electronics, although that could be removed. Since S has a relatively low following, it's product availability would have to expand rapidly, and in much greater variety, to attract modelers from other scales. I don't see this as a possibility because the market size right now is even smaller, much smaller than O.

Don't get me wrong, if you're happy and you know it, S is great. For current prototype modelers, O has more potential for growth, I think, but then, I'm in O, what else would I say?

That issue aside, I and others would readily accept new cars from the current prototype pool. Notice I say current prototype rather than modern. Modern is a relative term in time. SD40-2s were modern compared to an F-7, but that was nearly 40 years ago. The SD70Ace and SD70-2 are the current prototypes.

Let's hope that more manufacturers will chance the market and bring us current prototype offerings rather than limp along with re-runs of freight cars from 40-80 years ago.

FRRX:  West on the Cowboy Trail!

The MTH S will also be "held hostage" with DCC compatibility, plus conventional AC, seeing PS3 electronics is being used.  (I'll admit, I don't know if PS3 will work with conventional DC, never tried it.)

Just like the new Legacy-equipped Lionel Flyer is "held hostage" by Legacy electronics with DCC compatibility, conventional AC and conventional DC.

Hmm...  DCC seems to becoming common ground in S, along with conventional AC.

Rusty

PS3 works for DC conventional, AC conventional, DCC or DCS.

Matt,

My experience is only with Proto 2, but what I observed was that it operated poorly with straight DC, but excellent with the MTH power supplies and controls. Hence, I've not bothered with any further MTH offerings and kept to DC/DCC. I have no experience with Proto 3, thus base the comment strictly on my experiences with my observations of Proto 2. That said, DCC is the defacto, across the board operating system for model railroading in all the indoor scales no matter what dreams of market dominance the Wolfman has.  Promises that Proto 3 interfaces easily, completely, and seamlessly with DCC, (and vice versa) I suspect, were, maybe overstated.  Just MHO.

No matter what operating systems we have, or our bias toward or against them, to stay on track with Erik's original theme, I think we can all agree that O could use a lot more current prototype offerings for a number of reasons. 

Speaking of Erik....I've been to the Trinkle site several times, but no pictures of any finished, detailed, painted, and lettered cars are there, just mock-ups in the back ground picture. Could you or Mr. Trinkle offer us some close ups of a finished model: top, bottom, sides, and ends? Inquiring minds wanna know. While the prototype is too old for me, might be some takers here. Yah never know.

FRRX:  West on the Cowboy Trail.

Good Day,

I've said it many times, 21st Century Intermodal cars and equipment would be fantastic!

Regards,

Frank

There is a demand until pricing is released, then I'm afraid most will probably just complain about the cost (if they are ever produced). I'm sure the highly detailed gear will not be in the lower price ranges.

If anyone does decide to make these they should hire Swafford to make the drawings! Don't know how he does it but he posts some very nice looking rail cars and engines.

The rerun of the TT flat probably indicates higher diecasting costs,as long as Atlas continues with the Trinity level of detailing on their Mline cars I am in for anything modern although its easier if you are not looking for a fleet of cars. I would not like to see them trading detail level to maintain a price point. Obiviously runs limited to reservations have become the norm[little if any excess inventory] bear in mind its all about return on investment for each new model or rerun that keeps the MFGs in business[unfortunately lower production numbers mean higher cost per unit] as long as these numbers work for the MFG the models will continue to be produced in ever increasing quality and detail[we hope!] JMHO

In an ideal world Atlas would produce cars that buyers would take in large quantities[hoppers intermodal flats etc.] in the Tman line hopefully a little better detailed than some previous offerings[PS4750 covered hopper]at 60-65%+/- of Mline pricing to make multiple car orders more realistic.Who really knows how the MFGs thinking goes,time will tell and prices will continue to rise on everything coming in from China.JMO

So, questions,  everything about Exactrail's cars is done in Utah except assembly and painting/printing.  

And, as far as I know they only sell direct and, at least for HO do offer volume discounts.

Who would still be interested in what if they came as unassembled painted kits only?  

Undecorated unassembled kits (with decals?)? 

Good Day Gentlemen,

The ExactRail Johnstown America AutoFlood ll Coal Hopper in O Scale would be spectacular! WOW...........!

I'd be a buyer of these coal hoppers painted and built ready to go on the rails please.

Regards,

Swafford

Yeah, decaling is not for me. I'd rather pay and have it already painted and decaled myself. I did a couple and almost went to my...... Looks good from a distance?

Hey Joe,

Your CSX engines would look fantastic pulling a coal train of these hoppers! They look like the real deal!

Regards,

Frank   

What about some BNSF engines pulling these?

Swafford, don't know how you make these pictures, but they are very good! I enjoy all the pictures you post, thanks!

I don't really worry about painting and finishing.  I've stripped the finish off of my Lionel bathtub gons and many of the MTH Coalporters (we all know that removing paint from older MTH stuff is... ).  I'll be leaving mine unfinished.  I've got cars in gray, black and red plastic and other than maybe a stripe at the rotary end I think they are just fine the way they are.

Mike Deberg has said he would sign up for 50 and I would do likewise for the Autoflood II cars.  Anyone else?  I don't know of there is some magic number than would make Exactrail go for it but there's 100 from 2 people.  I think Rick Trinkle would sign up for some too.  Frank?

rtr12,  Those are pics from Exactrail's website.