Fastrack Operating Track Wiring and Issues

Richard, I admire your persistence in getting your Operating track to work the way you want.  I will try to help you with some of your questions about Operating FasTrack.  There is a link to an older topic below that may help you.  It includes a wiring diagram for tubular Operating Track, which appears to be the same for FasTrack.

Out of curiosity, why don't you want to use the controller that comes with the Operating track?

Regarding fixing the protruding height of the control rail, I haven't run into this exact issue, but have successfully fixed numerous issues with the 3 standard rails.

You may be able to just tighten up the tabs while pressing simultaneously on the loose rail and the tab underneath. Doing this successfully takes a fair amount of controlled force. I suggest first checking to make sure the rails are nested in between the cutouts in the ties.

Some words of caution if you decide to remove or raise the rails off the roadbed. It is very easy to bend the rails while removing them, especially if you try to pull them out.

First straighten ALL the tabs on the section of rail you want to raise.  To avoid bending the rails, a couple of small flat-blade screwdrivers can be used to gradually pry the rails upward a little bit at a time, starting at one end and evenly raising both sides of the rail, then gradually working your way to the other end. Repeat this process until you've raised the rail to the desired height above the roadbed. If you can avoid completely removing the rail tabs from the slots in the roadbed to accomplish what you're trying to do, this makes re-assembly much easier.

https://ogrforum.com/...sing-accessory-power

Steve

Thank you for your quick reply.  I don't want to use the controller that came with the operating track as many members on this forum have advised against it as it is cheaply made and prone to failure.  The same applies to the uncoupling controller.

Thanks for your advice on fixing the rails.  At least on one of the tracks, the rail is not nested in the bed (between the ties).  I also have fixed some of the regular rails (especially 1 3/8 sections).  I will be very careful.  I will also review the thread you sent to see if it will help with Fastrack.

Richard, here is another thread that has some additional info about replacing Uncoupler and Operating Track controllers.

https://ogrforum.com/...nel-uncoupler-tracks

@Richard Whipkey posted:

...

I thought I had the operating track wiring concept down pat, but can only get the magnet to be operable.  I think I might be missing a ground for the activation rails.

Did the various links provided by others solve your problem?

Is the question how to power the "activation rails" (the 4th and 5th rails) WITHOUT simultaneously powering the magnet?

Some Operating Track sections can be wired to simultaneously power the activation rails AND the magnet when the lever-switch-button is pressed.  This makes the control "universal" since some operating cars run when the magnet is ON, other operating cars run when the activation rails are ON.  But, as others mentioned, you might have a slow-moving dump car powered by the activation rails.  In this case, the magnet is unnecessarily powered for long intervals potentially overheating, melting, or worse.

Stan

You have succinctly described exactly what I am trying to accomplish.  My son (who is a mechanical engineer) and I continue to study and discuss the issue and feel that we are close to a solution.  Ok will update soon.

@stan2004 posted:

@Richard Whipkey posted:

The real issue is that some cars require one rail hot, the other ground("unload"), and others like the barrel cars that need both rails hot("uncouple"), requiring magnet activation when not needed when used with the original controllers. What is needed is a third button for both hot, no magnet("third function")...  a 3 button controller can be used to separate out the magnet feature when not needed or wanted. This button/switch would have a NC connection to the magnet that breaks when activated to turn off the magnet, but leaves it connected for the regular "uncouple" function, and otherwise wired in parallel to the normal uncouple button. It would require another wire to the track, too.

@Richard Whipkey posted:

I'm reaching out for help with wiring my Fastrack operating tracks.  My goal is (1) to provide auxiliary power from a post-war ZW, (2) to separate the magnet and control it with a SPST button, and (3) control the activation rails separately from the magnet with a SPDT switch or button....

Are we there yet?!   I'm not clear if we're actually progressing!

As I see it, the "root cause" is that the Operating Track sections internally connect the uncoupling coil to one of the control/activation rails.

So if replacing the notoriously unreliable 2-button contraption/controller, it's logical to solve the uncoupling problem first.  Of course that's the easy one solved with a momentary SPST 2-terminal pushbutton switch.  And it can be powered from Accessory AC (rather than track center rail) as long as the Accessory AC voltage shares a common ground with the track transformer:

When the SPST button is pressed, the magnet coil is powered...but as shown the Right control rail also receives Accessory Power.  As to what, if anything happens in the Operating Car is dependent on the Car; since the Left control rail is not connected, presumably nothing happens in the Operating Car...but again that's a function of what's in the Car.

Now comes the tricky and understandably confusing part.

Even Lionel in their instructions for remotely controlling a Fastrack Operating Track with an Operating Track Controller instructs you to physically modify the wiring to break the connection between the magnet coil and the control rail:

The issue here is your item (3) where you want to use "just" an SPDT (Single Pole) switch.  As discussed in the various linked threads, the Unload function requires a DPDT (Double Pole) since you are driving two activation rails...hence logically requiring two poles of switching.  And most, if not all remote accessory controllers only offer single-pole SPDT switching.  Hence modification to the Operating Track itself can be required.

So one approach is to study Lionel's modification and copy that in the form of your manual switches.  Rob's idea of a 3rd button is interesting and another option...though also requires internal wiring re-work cutting (isolating) the magnet coil and such.

I don't know if this makes any sense or simply confuses issues.

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Separately, I want to be sure I understand what you're seeing when trying to use a single-pole switch to activate the UNLOAD function.  I will follow up with another post on that but wanted to get the above out on the table.

Carrying on.  Let's say you have an un-modified Operating Track with the magnet coil connected to the Right control rail.  And let's say you use only a single-pole (SPST) switch to drive the Left control/activation rail as shown above.

Push the button and the car gets the "full" Accessory hot voltage from the Left rail...but will also receive a "weak" ground voltage from the Right rail because of the magnet coil.  The magnet coil is only a few Ohms of resistance.  Since most Operating Cars don't use anywhere near the current of a magnet coil, the Operating Car will likely still operate as it will be receiving the lion's share of the Accessory voltage.  So, for example, if applying 14V AC to the Left control rail, the magnet coil might steal 2V so that the Right control rail is at 2V.  The operating car then sees 14V - 2V = 12V AC between its left and right pickup shoes which I'd guess sufficient to operate most cars.

I'm just trying to clarify if this is what you're describing or something completely different?

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Perhaps this has been previously suggested in words but a diagram always helps:

A workaround could be a single-pole SPDT (3-terminal) pushbutton for UNCOUPLE in conjunction with a single-pole SPST (2-terminal) pushbutton for UNLOAD.  By UNLOAD this is specific to unloading by applying Accessory power to the Left and Right control rails.  Pressing UNLOAD does not power the magnet coil. 

By using an SPDT switch for UNCOUPLE, the magnet coil AND the Right control rail are normally grounded.  So if the UNLOAD SPST is pressed, the operating car receives full Accessory voltage between left and right rails.  And when UNCOUPLE SPDT is pressed, the magnet coil receives full Accessory voltage.

This requires NO modification to the operating track.  Again, this leaves the right control rail normally grounded (except when UNCOUPLE is pressed).  I am not aware of any operating car or other rolling stock item that would mis-behave.

Still working on it.

If you just need the option of using the track without the magnet, a SPST switch can be connected to shut off the magnet.

Thanks for all the information.  We're  still working on it.  Should know more when my son and son-in-law come in this upcoming weekend.

We reached a solution that is acceptable.  Thanks for all of your input; it helped a great deal.  Here is what we did:

1.  We first isolated the magnet by cutting its connection to the activation rail as suggested by Lionel for preparing the track for OTC connection.  This gave us a direct wire to the magnet.

2.  We ran AC power to the magnet from a post war ZW to a SPST button then on to the magnet via the wire created in step 1. We also wired a resettable PTC in line to protect the magnet.  We ran ground from the ZW to the outside rail by connecting to the black tab (the magnet has ground via the outside rail as wired by the factory).  The magnet works well and is totally independent of power to the control rails.

3.  We then ran the same AC power to a Momentary On Off On Center Off Toggle Switch (pole 4).  We used an E-TEN 223 15A/250V switch.  Pole 4 was then connected to pole 6 and pole 6 was connected to pole 3.  Next, we ran AC ground to pole 1.  We then ran a wire from the "green-side" control rails (green tab) to pole 5 and one from the "blue-side" control rails (blue tab) to pole 2.  This allows us to power only the "green rails" by throwing the toggle one way and to power both sets of control rails by throwing the toggle the other way.

SEE ATTACHED PDF DIAGRAM  (the best I could create on my computer, I think it's easy enough to follow).

This allows us to either power the magnet, one set of control rails, or both sets of control rails.  We tested it with my fleet of operating cars.  Some (MTH dump cars and Lionel milk cars) need both sets of control rails only.  Others (Lionel Barrel cars) need only one set of control rails.  And some (Kline dump cars without using Kline remote) a brief push of the magnet to start them moving.  We did tighten down the rails (don't you just love Lionel's quality control) using Steve's suggestions and all cars roll over them and work smoothly.  We are very happy with the results.

I have also attached a PDF of wiring an uncoupling track to include a PTC fuse just for reference.

Again, I thank all of you for your help.  This is a great community!

Thanks for following thru and updating us! 

For the record, which exact PTC resettable fuse did you end up using?  And did you confirm its functionality by holding down the Uncouple button (magnet power) for an extended interval?

Richard, echoing what Stan said, thanks for following up on this and including the wiring diagrams.  I like the DPDT options you all came up with to power either one or both control rails.  I'm glad you were able to get everything working the way you wanted.

Stan

PTC resettable Fuse - 0.5A hold, 1A trip for drawing about 1.8A - Digi-Key: MF-R050-ND.  I did not test it to confirm its functionality.  How long should I hold the button for a test?  What are the risks?

I don't have/use the FasTrack uncoupler, but per the OGR community info in the Electrical Reference section, the FasTrack coil draws about 1.8 Amps.

From the datasheet for the MF-R050, the nominal "trip" time at 1.8 Amps is about 5 seconds.

To be clear, there is what amounts to "wear and tear" on these resettable devices.  I suppose one can look at it philosophically as a tradeoff to get multi-use or resettable performance vs. one-and-done of a traditional fuse.  So to your point about "risk," I don't think you will see any meaningful change/degradation in uncoupling  action.  I'd think there would be real comfort value to confirming it "works" and you installed it correctly.  In my opinion of course!

So, for example, if you hold down the button for 20 seconds and nothing happens (other than the coil getting hotter and hotter) then I'd terminate the experiment and double-check your wiring and such.

OK, Steve, I tested both an uncoupling track and an operating track:

1. Uncoupling Track - 18v-2 seconds, 16v-4 seconds, 14v-8seconds, 12v-18 seconds until PTC tripped.

2. Operating Track - 18v-2 seconds, 16v-3seconds, 14v- 7 seconds, 12v-15 seconds until PTC tripped.

At 12v and 14v both track magnets did not feel warm to the touch when PTC tripped, at 16v and 18v both seemed somewhat warm to the touch when PTC tripped.  I can't imagine I'll run any power greater than 14v to either track.  In fact uncoupling tracks work great at 12v.  Operating tracks may need 14v for operating rails.  Looks like I'm good to go?

I run my uncoupler tracks on transformer Aux power posts at about 12 VAC. They work well.

The variable is the "stiffness" of the coupler on the railcar truck. I have not yet figured out how to adjust the coupler so that the tack can easily be pulled down by the uncoupler magnet.

If you figure that out, let me know. I have about 25 fastrack uncoupler track sections on my layout.

Good thread with lots of ideas to increase my understanding.

Great performance-verification data!  I think you're good to go.

The only other suggestion would be to post a couple photos of your modifications.  Your diagrams and writeup are quite good and tell the story...but you know how they say a picture is worth a thousand words!