Finally found one...NYC A2 Berkshire

Good find. These are like hen's teeth. It took me many years to find mine. When it arrived the 5v board was dead. On any other engine I would have sent it back. Instead I just put 3v kit in it and ate the cost. Still less than a new one.

Pete

Now the NYC actually had NO Berkshires that is until these P&LE A2a's were taken out of retirement to run down in the Cinncy Area until they quickly fell apart.

Since the P&LE terminated in my hometown was a must have when MTH debuted  them.

Here overtaken by it's replacement a GP7 also a MTH engine.

Almost every time I ran it at local toy train shop a NYC fan would say "I did not know NYC had a Berk, I want one. Why is it painted Army olive drab green."

After a while would point out that the NYC actually did not have them until pulled from P&LE retirement about 1955/56.  Pointed out the "P&LE" logo and the fact the tender is lettered "NEW YORK CENTRAL SYSTEM."  The word system being the key.

Neat model of the engine that should have NEVER been made.  Interesting history  Jack Polaritz  wrote the book (131-pages) "P&LE's Berkshires" a must have for anyone interested in the A2a's and P&LE.

Anyone know why the smoke box number and NYC nose plat for 9401 was red & white (passenger colors) instead of black & white?

The A2 -

They did not "fall apart"; they were neglected, stored badly, then expected to be usable again.

They were an exceptionally good design - after all, their design team was Kiefer's team, the same guy and guys that gave us the NYC Hudson, the NYC L3 and above Mohawks and - wait for it - the NYC Niagara, the best steam locomotive ever built (not just my opinion).

They were very well-suited to their role - that of what would be later known as a "road switcher" on the 50mph- speed-limit P&LE. They did everything the Mikes did, but better. They had exhaust stem injector rather than a FWH - these were cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain and nearly as effective (note that the C&O Greenbrier and the UP later 4-6-6-4's also used these). The locos had solid bearings rather than roller units - lower cost, and on a 50 mph loco, pulling trains that, in those days, were almost 100% plain bearing (mis-named "friction" bearings by many) cars, the presence of expensive roller bearings on the loco would have made only a minuscule difference in rolling resistance. 

Also in the Polaritz book (I think it was there; I did read it somewhere) was the statement; I paraphrase: "if the diesel-electric had not existed, the P&LE would have ordered a fleet of A2's. They were exactly what they were looking for". In a steamer, that is.

They are also really, really good-looking; my favorite Berk, followed by the B&A (NYC) A1's. 

I bought one years ago when they were new or new-ish, I have run it, but I always wanted it to be TMCC. But - pulling out perfectly good PS2 boards put me off. 

They are rare - then last year I ran across one at a pretty good price (1/2 catalog). I shouldn't have, but I snatched it. Great - now what do I do?

So - after I finish my never-ending Hudson project, one of these A2's will be brought over to ERR/RS.  Is this a silly hobby, or what?

D500 posted:

The A2 -

They did not "fall apart"; they were neglected, stored badly, then expected to be usable again.

They were an exceptionally good design - after all, their design team was Kiefer's team, the same guy and guys that gave us the NYC Hudson, the NYC L3 and above Mohawks and - wait for it - the NYC Niagara, the best steam locomotive ever built (not just my opinion).

They were very well-suited to their role - that of what would be later known as a "road switcher" on the 50mph- speed-limit P&LE. They did everything the Mikes did, but better. They had exhaust stem injector rather than a FWH - these were cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain and nearly as effective (note that the C&O Greenbrier and the UP later 4-6-6-4's also used these). The locos had solid bearings rather than roller units - lower cost, and on a 50 mph loco, pulling trains that, in those days, were almost 100% plain bearing (mis-named "friction" bearings by many) cars, the presence of expensive roller bearings on the loco would have made only a minuscule difference in rolling resistance. 

Also in the Polaritz book (I think it was there; I did read it somewhere) was the statement; I paraphrase: "if the diesel-electric had not existed, the P&LE would have ordered a fleet of A2's. They were exactly what they were looking for". In a steamer, that is.

They are also really, really good-looking; my favorite Berk, followed by the B&A (NYC) A1's. 

I bought one years ago when they were new or new-ish, I have run it, but I always wanted it to be TMCC. But - pulling out perfectly good PS2 boards put me off. 

They are rare - then last year I ran across one at a pretty good price (1/2 catalog). I shouldn't have, but I snatched it. Great - now what do I do?

So - after I finish my never-ending Hudson project, one of these A2's will be brought over to ERR/RS.  Is this a silly hobby, or what?

Must be a different Polaritz book!  The P&LE did NOT want these or any-other steam engine.  They were working on the purchase of diesels.  But their parent the NYC forced them to order 10 A2a's from ALCO.  Only seven were actually built.

Correct the P&LE did not maintained out on the dead tracks.  Just waiting to be scrapped.  All the A2a's were delivered to Bellefontaine shops.  Polaritz  "Problems developed immediately relating to lack of power with all seven Berkshires."  " ... some were dismal performers that were soon put into storage on the NYC at Riverside Yard in Cincinnati."  "Overall,when the Berkshires were initially placed into NYC service, they all lacked the power promised by their design and operational rating.  A2a's frequently stalled or could not make speed with freight trains that they were supposed to be capable of pulling."  " The worst situation involved the 9400, placed into storage in January after having had only 20 days availability in four months on the property."  Polaritz's words.  As I said we must have been reading different books!

Ron

Nice find. What is the MTH catalog number of your engine? The reason I ask is that I saw one from about 2004. It had a rectangular charging port that would indicate a 3 volt system. I was concerned with the age of the engine as I'm unable to do a conversion of 5 volt to 3 volt. Your's looks like the same engine but you indicate that it's a 5 volt.

Ed

Not only were they pretty much a disaster, they had only 63" diameter drive wheels, with only 230 psi working boiler pressure.  Thus, they couldn't maintain/obtain the desired speed. Sort of cool looking locomotives, but DEFINITELY NOT up to NYC "standards".

ekaz posted:

Nice find. What is the MTH catalog number of your engine? The reason I ask is that I saw one from about 2004. It had a rectangular charging port that would indicate a 3 volt system. I was concerned with the age of the engine as I'm unable to do a conversion of 5 volt to 3 volt. Your's looks like the same engine but you indicate that it's a 5 volt.

Ed

Ed, the one I have pictured above was in fact the first MTH issue, number 20-3128-1 and definitely a 3 Volt system not 5v.

Ron

The olive drab color goes perfectly with a string of MTH Ontario and Western Heavyweight passenger cars. They match the olive drab color plus add maroon for a really gorgeous train. The item number is 20-4098 for the five car set.

Mine is a 3V system. The instruction manual states a it is a 3V system.  The previous owner put a 3V BCR in it.  If he wouldn't have, I would have installed one...all my MTH engines have BCR's...steam and diesel.

Unlike the prototype, this is a very smooth runner...sound is OK...typical early PS2 "chuff".

They were built in the postwar diesel era. I think I read they were built to please online coal companies. P&LE wanted diesels ,  and NYC didn't want them either. They already have their 'big-boy' (Niagara), and the Berks, were Alco's last produced domestic steam locomotive, didn't have anything they could pull that the now downgraded to freight 4-8-4's, as passenger diesels began to appear en mass. The color was dubbed 'sea green'.

I have the MTH version also. It was made because at the time many on this forum were lobbing for one and MTH responded. I still have to get to painting the driver tires white.

turbgine posted:

The olive drab color goes perfectly with a string of MTH Ontario and Western Heavyweight passenger cars. They match the olive drab color plus add maroon for a really gorgeous train. The item number is 20-4098 for the five car set.

Just curious; why would a P&LE/NYC slow speed freight steam locomotive be hauling New York  Ontario & Western passenger cars? 

Very nice locomotive and wow talk about patience on a great find.  Congrats sir.

Thanks for the help clarifying the 3 volt vs. 5 volt. I was wondering if they were all 5 volt like the one Norton bought. I think the one I looked at was the 20-3128-1 3 volt. Might have to try and track that one down again.

Ed

Also looks great with the Menards WWII nose art boxcars and caboose.

Gerry

I have that engine and it is a 3 volt system.