First Timers At York== How Did You Find The Experience?

Well that escalated quickly! Pay dues, don't pay dues. Register for York, don't register for York. The tax is a little bit of grey area, but as long as the State of PA is ok with how things are handled then who cares? When I pay for something in full from a Dealer or Member my part of the transaction is complete. If they choose to report the income or not, its none of my business. My point is, this is your hobby, do with it what you will.

Now, Are there any first timers to York that want to share their experience?

You don't feel like getting a PA tax number to sell?  Tough!!  Don't sell there then!!  People shouldn't be taxed with the cost of membership plus admission because you're too lazy to do something required for you to sell!  You want to make money?  Do your part!

If the show was open to the public, you still wouldn't join the TCA. So what's the benefit to the health of the organization?

Do your part, join the TCA!

BHalfway posted:

I don't intend to join/ go....  I'm fine with purchasing through other sources.  And there are plenty of them!  I've attended numerous time and, as you say, have made up my mind...

Your attitude towards my comment Dave45681 is the reason this hobby has little chance of having legs past the folks currently attending York.  The question was asked about younger folks attending and the issue continues to be raised about youth getting involved.  Although there are a few folks here under 40 who confirmed they attended, the majority (large large large majority) are over 50.  I appreciate the knowledge I gain from being a part of this site but can certainly site my reasons (and reasons I believe represent my generation being under 40) for failing to see York as some super duper deal.  Your attempt at a verbal slam demonstrates my point why the narrow minded, stuck-in-your-ways, psuedo-elitist membership will wither into oblivion.   Without the approval and interest of MY generation (and large numbers of them to boot) younger generations will have no problem letting the TCA evaporate.  So go on with your "Fine, we don't need you anyway!" attitude...  we'll see what thing look like in 20 years!

You don't feel like getting a PA tax number to sell?  Tough!!  Don't sell there then!!  People shouldn't be taxed with the cost of membership plus admission because you're too lazy to do something required for you to sell!  You want to make money?  Do your part!

 

You make quite a few assumptions there about me as well.  I was still in the under 40 crowd until just a few years ago, so we are probably considered close to the same generation.  It was your original abrasive (putting it mildly) post declaring the dues and meet charges "ridiculous" that prompted my response.

I welcome anyone who wishes to join and attend.  I do not deride people or comment on any dislike for them as either people or their desires in collecting/operating trains.  I enjoy talking trains with people even if our focus may be radically different. I had discussions with more than a few people at my table over the meet, several of whom thanked me for educating them about an item they may have been curious about.  A new member noted one item I had on my table that resembled a more recent set he owned.  I explained to him what I had was actually for an older set and it was also a command controlled item that would not really be a huge benefit as an addition to his set.

Declaring me an "elitist" shows how  out of touch you are basing an entire characterization of me based on a response to your one post. Until your post, there were people posting that their first experiences were positive, until you felt the need to declare how ridiculous it all was because "you believe" it should all be open to the public. 

Unfortunately we have now both said enough to sour the mood, LARRY SR.'s single sad smiley demonstrates we've just lessened it for him, and for that I am sorry.

The large part of York that is not dealers (anything but Purple and Orange as of this meet) is based on members selling, many of whom do not run businesses to justify having a tax number.  True there are some members in those halls that may run small side businesses.  So if you say "tough" to everyone not in a business, many will just stop attending to sell.  That is the spiral catch-22 that then causes the meet to dwindle and then deteriorate to the point where there is nothing much better than any other commercial show (Greenberg, WGH, Allentown, etc) that is primarily large dealers selling their wares.

So the ultimate result of screaming that it "must be open to the public" is that it will then lose the attraction that makes people want to attend to begin with.

But I forget, you must know best.  Since you are considering membership a "tax" to attend York, you must have initially thought it was worth something.  Believe it or not, there are other benefits to the TCA than just the privilege of attending the York meet.

When did York Meet go to 3 days enlieu of just Friday and Saturday?................Just Wondering!

Dave

No it didn't sour my adventure. This stuff happens every York on the forum. Not a big deal to me. Everyone can state what ever they feel like with the trip.

Of course it is hard for me to understand why it is not a totally mind boggling fun adventure for a train nut.

Still having fun.

Larry

Brandy posted:

When did York Meet go to 3 days enlieu of just Friday and Saturday?................Just Wondering!

Without trying to dig up my old registration booklets, I want to guess it was sometime around 2004, maybe.  I'm pretty sure it coincided with the new construction of the Orange Hall.

-Dave

If you let the public in you will kill the TCA. No need to join to go to York, thus you would kill the York show eventually without the TCA. 

rrman posted:

BHalfway posted:

Can't imagine many younger enthusiasts choosing York over buying trains.  Although they may seem synonymous, York effectively charges $70 for just the right to get into the place to buy trains.  Personally, I'd rather spend that money on actual trains and not a ticket to get into a place to buy trains!!  And yes I've been there...  Just won't likely be back due to the rediculous admission cost of membership plus ticket

So now not only membership, you also have to buy an admission ticket to get in?  I signed up for myself $35, and got two cards green for myself and white one for family (wife), but wonder if I will be dinged another $35 for her? Wow maybe I better rethink York and save a bunch of money. After all a train show is a train show, just more of everything, right?  Know I will be dropping TCA membership after October York, as I just wanted to see what the hype was all about, and besides pretty expensive to drive from Iowa and staying in hotels.  But that just me, your experience will be different, especially if you are within easy couple hour driving distance.

Noticed there was a thread  saying York open to the public, but was deleted before I could read it.  Must been misleading stuff.  Too bad TCA is a "closed society".  Wonder why York doesn't want the "riff raff public" to discover trains?

TCA is much more than just York.  Did you stop at the museum?  Do you appreciate the standards when buying online?  I've never used the archives, but they're a valuable resource and are worthy of our support.  Ditto for the complaint process.  When buying or selling, most TCA members appreciate the fact that they are dealing with someone who values their membership and acts accordingly.  All that, plus a good magazine and buy/sell forum for the cost of a boxcar.   

And before you criticize the "members only" policy, find a copy of the state of PA's letter from the mid-1980s regarding the tax status of the meet; the reason for that policy and why it's unlikely to change will become crystal clear.  (I recall reading the letter in a TCA publication awhile back.  Find it online or contact TCA for a copy.)

Just an observation referring to the lack of younger people interested in the hobby.

The baby boomer generation is the one that collects and stock piles ... it's who we are in large part.

The younger generations are not fixated on possessing objects like we are.

On another note, I have never been to York. Maybe one day ...

Well, once again, I can't stand it any longer so heeeeeere goes.   JOIN or DON'T, it's that simple, PERIOD.   There are many organizations out there that have "Meetings" which require membership to attend and are closed to the "General Public".  The OGCA (Ohio Gun Collector Association) is one that I previously belonged to. The "Meetings" were open exclusively to MEMBERS ONLY.   And similar to the York Show (read that "Meeting") a member could bring a "Guest" for a One-Time Experience with the possibility of recruiting a new OGCA member, (which unlike York required 2 current members in good standing with more than a year seniority as sponsors).  Look, if ya don't like something, don't participate and for goodness sake quit complainin' and tarnishing it for those of us who DO enjoy "The York Experience"!   I HATE liver and onions, sooooo, I don't eat it.   Yes, it's that simple.

Chief Bob (Retired)

My brother lives 7 miles away from YORK on a direct line. I am 66 but the experience makes me feel like a kid. I thought $400 in my pocket would be enough. No way! For me, the cost of TCA dues are well worth the York experience. 

First timer here! Simply amazing. Went to Strausburg Wednesday 

I spent 1k in 2 hours on Thursday after a great breakfast at Alexander's.   Our club ate at the diner next to smokey bones and they ran out of Yuengling. Friday.  Just trains brought out the new Ca1 cabooses and I got the last two. Found Ps4 flats with the trailers for 50.00 each.... than I found a lionel veranda turbine for 575.00. And thought about it for two hours....before 6 pm my friend talked me into it. Ate at Smokey Bones and loved it.

Saturday.  Hit Hershey and got lots of chocolate for the kids. Then went to Altoona museum and drove up to the curve. Amazing. 

The chocolate worked wonders on the family as it distracted them enough so I could bring my mounds of train boxes to the basement. 

Here are a few ideas and thoughts.

"the charter buses have storage overhead and underneath.' Yes but everyone is buying and storage space with run out very quickly.

Master of distraction goes to J Daddy. I love the way you handled sneaking in the purchases while they where enjoying the Hersey Bars.

Best stated post goes Larry Sr. "Of course it is hard for me to understand why it is not a totally mind boggling fun adventure for a train nut" I absolute agree with you on that point. 

Andy I am sorry I missed seeing you, thank you for all the tips and suggestions.

Will I go again the answer is yes, will it be this coming Oct meet maybe and maybe not that is too far down the road for me. I would like to know if there are any hotel that are cheaper say half hour away and if any one has any suggestion, I am listening.

Go, no go, tax or no tax I have to agree with Larry Sr. statement for the love and enjoyment of the hobby. Cost of getting into the Meet well we could debate this issue until Oct 2016 and beyond. I look at it from this point of view how much did you send last year total shipping cost on getting your trains from flybay, the other auction houses and the large/mid and small train vendors combined? I think it is cheaper going to York Meet, seriously think about it and be honest about it. If you do not believe me go over your invoices for one year and tell me you have not spent over $100 in shipping. I have been to Amhurst, Greenburg show and the local shows around here, what a joke compared the York Meet. I got into the Blue and Orange Halls on Friday and saw some great deals, I am just wondering what deals I missed not being there on Thursday. Blue and Orange Halls for me where the Monte Hall places to be and "Let's Make A Deal", or my other favorite saying "Such a deal". Now I have to be fair I did not get a change to get to the other halls except Purple Hall and I did not see any deals at all, nice train layouts but for me that was it. Now if some would like tell where I should go for some greats deal that I missed I am listening.

Dave45681 posted:

....The general public thing is never going to happen.  Accept it and move on.  If every person in the member halls had to have a PA tax number to attend, it's going to die sooner rather than later (I will not be starting a small business just to sell my excess stuff at a 6 foot table at York, I'm guessing a fair number of others are in the same boat). 

Dave, while as you think, "the general public thing is never going to happen," most likely the PA Revenue Dept. looking the other way regarding collecting tax from ALL sellers at this and similar venues is likely in its last throes destined to end much sooner than later since according to a state representative near your area  whose district is in no way impacted by any influx of $$$ generated by the York meet (-- by the way, check your profile's zipcode since Bensalem, PA has a 19020 zip.)

He's stated, off the record, "with the current state of political bickering over state budget financing currently being engaged in between the governor who has proposed a significant increase in the PA sales tax and fellow  State Assembly and Senate colleagues, that if the governor wants additional revenue from the state's sales tax, then the governor should first make it known to the Dept. of Revenue in the strongest possible way its current practice of selectively enforcing where the tax is or isn't collected must end NOW  and the collection of sales tax from any and all venues who should already be reporting and paying it must commence immediatelt to bring additional money to Pennsylvania coffers!!!"

Dave45681 posted:

BHalfway posted:

It's my understanding you can only get that guest deal once.  From here on out you would need to pay the membership cost ($50 annually) and the price of the ticket for York ($15-20)...  IMO you should be able to get into the show w/o having to be a member.  I have no interest in standard gauge or tin plate trains which is the primary focus of TCA.  Therefore the TCA membership does absolutely nothing for me and I'm paying approx $70 to get into the show....

They're Heeeeeree.......... (never fails!)

You've already obviously made up your mind/agenda.  So if it's not for you, don't join/go (what a concept!).

Some of the first timer's who have replied to this thread apparently enjoyed it, so it seems it can be a benefit to new people.  They will likely attend at least a few more meets and make up their mind over the long run if it's a good deal for them.

The general public thing is never going to happen.  Accept it and move on.  If every person in the member halls had to have a PA tax number to attend, it's going to die sooner rather than later (I will not be starting a small business just to sell my excess stuff at a 6 foot table at York, I'm guessing a fair number of others are in the same boat). 

The $70 cost for York gets you 24 hours of being immersed in the last 100 years of toy trains.  This is the best deal in the O gauge hobby.

Most of us pay more than $70 to see a sporting event, concert, or play for just a couple of hours.

He's stated, off the record, "with the current state of political bickering over state budget financing currently being engaged in between the governor who has proposed a significant increase in the PA sales tax and fellow  State Assembly and Senate colleagues, that if the governor wants additional revenue from the state's sales tax, then the governor should first make it known to the Dept. of Revenue in the strongest possible way its current practice of selectively enforcing where the tax is or isn't collected must end NOW  and the collection of sales tax from any and all venues who should already be reporting and paying it must commence immediatelt to bring additional money to Pennsylvania coffers!!!"

Is this person a particularly influential representative?
The bi-annual York train show brings lots of tourist dollars into the area.
Plus there are many other shows held at the York fairgrounds. Some of them may have the same arrangement with the PA Tax department.
I'm not claiming that the show would move if all table holders were required to have PA tax numbers and submit paperwork, but it might.
IMHO, such a requirement would hasten the end of the show (unless it moved).

"Now I have to be fair I did not get a chance to get to the other halls except Purple Hall and I did not see any deals at all, nice train layouts but for me that was it. Now if some would like tell where I should go for some greats deal that I missed I am listening."

Just Trains was in the purple hall - they had the new MTH Ca1 cabooses for 50.00 cash.

Also another dealer had pre-owned trains marked high but if you gave him a semi reasonable offer he would take it. I bought a set of Lionel Burlington E-5's in descent shape for 350.00.

Also in the Red Hall I found brand new in the master carton box an ultra rare set of Lionel Rock Island E-6's from '03 for 500.00.

In the White Hall there was a Lionel Legacy prewar version K-4 for 600.00 on the bottom of a stack of boxes that I had to let go... I just ran out of money.

The deals were everywhere, the more I looked the more I found it was simply crazy.

Admittedly 70 percent of what I purchased was from the Orange Hall.

All youse guys who are debating the future of York should make it point of attending the business meeting held at 8AM Saturday mornings and open to all TCA members. You might learn something; not only proposed changes but also the costs associated with puting the show on.  Just know that the current board members are aware of the issues and are working to change things. They are same people who changed the cell phone, picture taking, and one time admission without having to join the TCA National rules.

Pete

C W Burfle posted:

He's stated, off the record, "with the current state of political bickering over state budget financing currently being engaged in between the governor who has proposed a significant increase in the PA sales tax and fellow  State Assembly and Senate colleagues, that if the governor wants additional revenue from the state's sales tax, then the governor should first make it known to the Dept. of Revenue in the strongest possible way its current practice of selectively enforcing where the tax is or isn't collected must end NOW  and the collection of sales tax from any and all venues who should already be reporting and paying it must commence immediatelt to bring additional money to Pennsylvania coffers!!!"

Is this person a particularly influential representative?
The bi-annual York train show brings lots of tourist dollars into the area.
Plus there are many other shows held at the York fairgrounds. Some of them may have the same arrangement with the PA Tax department.
I'm not claiming that the show would move if all table holders were required to have PA tax numbers and submit paperwork, but it might.
IMHO, such a requirement would hasten the end of the show (unless it moved).

Yes, CW. an influential legislator deeply involved in Pennsylvania's recent long running budget stalemate and battle. Considering Pennsylvania's current fiscal situation and the governor's push for a hefty increase to the current sales tax rate as well as proposing that levy be extended to include many presently untaxed goods and services, opposition  lawmakers as well many in Pennsylvania's business community are pushing for the governor to first push for ALL existing sources of tax revenue be collected before an increase in and extension  to the current sales tax will up for consideration by Pennsylvania's legislature.

IMHO, while York is certainly not the target of this push for uncollected state sales taxes it will nonetheless be affected collaterally by such heightened enforcement. Whether Eastern TCA moves the meet should such vigorous tax collection come to fruition is conjecture. But surely the state and local revenue loss if the TCA meet leaves is VERY small compared to the gains in revenue from more vigorous statewide collection of the sales tax.

Michael Hokkanen posted:

My brother lives 7 miles away from YORK on a direct line. I am 66 but the experience makes me feel like a kid. I thought $400 in my pocket would be enough. No way! For me, the cost of TCA dues are well worth the York experience. 

I am not a first-timer.  April was my 30th York (have missed 2).  It still makes me feel like a kid.

That's where I am, and that's why I will keep going (Lord permitting).  I hope the newbies and first-timers had a blast and will come back.  All of us (and I will dare to speak for them) are very glad you came, hope you enjoyed, and want you to come back again and again.

George

Dear J Daddy

I had the same problem I also ran out of cash and had to hit the ATM in the Orange Hall twice spent well over the limit.

NealWeiss posted:

Dave45681 posted:

BHalfway posted:

It's my understanding you can only get that guest deal once.  From here on out you would need to pay the membership cost ($50 annually) and the price of the ticket for York ($15-20)...  IMO you should be able to get into the show w/o having to be a member.  I have no interest in standard gauge or tin plate trains which is the primary focus of TCA.  Therefore the TCA membership does absolutely nothing for me and I'm paying approx $70 to get into the show....

They're Heeeeeree.......... (never fails!)

You've already obviously made up your mind/agenda.  So if it's not for you, don't join/go (what a concept!).

Some of the first timer's who have replied to this thread apparently enjoyed it, so it seems it can be a benefit to new people.  They will likely attend at least a few more meets and make up their mind over the long run if it's a good deal for them.

The general public thing is never going to happen.  Accept it and move on.  If every person in the member halls had to have a PA tax number to attend, it's going to die sooner rather than later (I will not be starting a small business just to sell my excess stuff at a 6 foot table at York, I'm guessing a fair number of others are in the same boat). 

The $70 cost for York gets you 24 hours of being immersed in the last 100 years of toy trains.  This is the best deal in the O gauge hobby.

Most of us pay more than $70 to see a sporting event, concert, or play for just a couple of hours.

 

I'm sorry, but I really don't get the carping about the relatively small amount of money it costs to attend one of, if not the greatest train meets on the planet.

George