Flying with trains

They will definitely get tossed around. cushion them well.

Neat idea, Good luck.

Contact FEDEX and see what they would charge Freight delivery for one big box picked up at the terminal. Truck freight may be slower but I bet it would be cheaper.

Gunny

Expect to have all your carry-on searched at security.

Jan

@lionel1946 posted:

Do you think the bags will get treated any worse than they would be by FedEx or UPS or USPS? I'm thinking that the bags will probably get tossed 6 to 8 times (between check in, loading, unloading, and baggage claim), but it can't be any worse than the last engine I had delivered by UPS.........

Worse.  Lots worse and you'll have next to zero claims you can file and some you may never see again.

Rent a van from UHaul and go get them yourself.

I've worked in commercial aviation in a past life.  Check em through.  They will be fine.  Add a little cushion where you can.  

Expect to have your checked bags searched.  I recall a gentleman who traveled from California to York one year, hoping to sell 2 unopened Lionel Postwar A-B units.  He had them in his checked bags and upon arriving, opened his checked bags to find the TSA had searched his luggage and opened the previously unopened Lionel boxes (ie they cut the tape sealing the boxes).  Needless to say he was upset.

It is also at least a 2 hour drive one-way to Stout's from Midway.  I am about an hour north of Midway and it takes me 3 hours to drive there, one way.

If you pick up your auction items, won't you have to pay state sales tax too?  Keep that in mind.

Be careful what you bid on, you just might win.

Drive.  I often lent a hand on the belt loader while doing walk arounds.  When one end gets busy the bags fall off the other end - and sometimes off the side.  And once in a while off the cart.

Is shipping really more expensive than a pair of airline tickets?  And why on earth would you want to expose yourself to all those Covids?

I too took Southwest down to Florida after a great York trip. I had 2 Lionel 700E engines in my checked bags. They where all packed up and boxed nicely for any kind of airline handling! Well. I got home and unpacked the bag to find out that the boxes where not tampered with, or so I thought! The TSA inspected both boxes and repacked them just like I did. The only evidence of inspection was a tiny sticker in the box letting me know that they opened them. The TSA inspector must have been a train guy. LOL! Nice to know that most government employees do a great job.

As far as shipping a postwar sealed box.........NO WAY!!!!

Billy C

I'm an airline pilot based at O'Hare, and I offer this tip...

DON'T CHECK THEM!

We deice at the gate, I believe they do the same at Midway. Bags are left outside waiting to be loaded, transferred, etc.  This time of year they'll be partially submerged in glycol, with a nice additional coating provided by the plane being sprayed at the next gate.  Or if it's raining.  I've seen the same bags sitting outside for hours.  

There is no "this way up" in the baggage handler's world.  Your bags will see contact on all six sides.  The word FRAGILE is seen as a challenge. Not to mention the way they're stacked in the cargo compartment of the plane.   Murphy's law clearly dictates that all the heavy weight bags connecting from international destinations will be stacked on top of yours.  And speaking of weight, the additional fees for heavy bags are very steep...something to consider.

Trains aren't on the list of prohibited items (3oz liquids, straight razors, nunchucks etc.  Not sure about Southwest, but my airlie's policy is one carry on & one personal item.  My 22 X 14 X 7 bag is a "legal" carry on.  Unless your gate agent quit smoking on the day you're flying, your personal item could be quite large...i.e. another suitcase, or duffel bag.  It's also possible to pay for an additional carry on, which may be reasonable.  There's also large & fragile things like musical instruments & medical equipment that we allow in the cabin's closet.  Could all of your auction winnings fit in 6 carry on sized bags?

If not, does anyone you know have hard sided bags they'd loan you?  Wrapped in a trash bag, inside a hard plastic suitcase, they might survive.  

Tom

For serious entertainment, try flying with live steam engines. I quit doing it about ten years ago. I got thru all right with mine but people at the same events had their engines turned back at security. Unfortunately the screeners have little idea what they are looking at. Terrified that an empty fuel tank or boiler was a bomb. Whether you get thru is strictly a matter of luck.

this has put a real damper on national events, even pre-Covid.

the baggage handlers are NOT your friends. I was carry-on only.

regards, Mike

@lionel1946 posted:

I read a thread on another forum about traveling with trains, but I thought I would ask here. Do you think the bags will get treated any worse than they would be by FedEx or UPS or USPS? I'm thinking that the bags will probably get tossed 6 to 8 times (between check in, loading, unloading, and baggage claim), but it can't be any worse than the last engine I had delivered by UPS (dropped a 3rd Rail/Sunset Models box so hard on my porch that the loco draw bar bent like a pig's tail).

What are your thoughts?

If you are in reasonable driving distance, pick them up yourself. ANY other shipping method and the stuff WILL get TOSSED around, and it's survival will depend on how well it's packed. If that 3rd rail engine you mention had been packed properly, it should have survived a fall to the ground.

Additionally, at this date and time with the Holiday season and the covid pandemic, shipping is a crap shoot.

Simon

Thanks to everyone for the informative and humorous responses!

Ron H: Thanks. All of the boxes that we are putting in checked bags are models in the oringal manufacturer's shipping boxes. So in the case of the Atlas items, the models are snugly fitted in styrofoam within the OEM boxes, and then teh OEM boxes are in a cardboard box. In the case of Sunset Models/3rd Rail, there is even styrofoam between the outside of the OEM box and the inside of the cardboard shipping box. Also the plan is to stop by a Staples (or other similar store) and buy a large roll of bubble wrap (or packing peanuts).

gunny: Thanks for the idea. I'll contact FedEx tomorrow.

Jan: Yes, they pulled my carry-on to the side when I came back from Reno last month with several Atlas SW-9s.

mwb: I have yet to lose any baggage during travel. Of course I'm hoping you are wrong. After all, if they were shipped Priority Mail (which would be insanely expensive) they would still be thrown on a plane.

Volphin: Thanks for the breath of fresh air!

Nation Wide Lines: Planning on 3 hours to Stout (map says more like 2 1/2 hours), then 2 hours to Mr. Muffin (map says 1 1/2 hours), then 3 hours back to MDW (map says 3 hours). So 6-7 hours of driving, plus the time we spend at each stop. And I'm not too worried about them opening the cardboard shipping boxes, as long as they don't damage the OEM boxes.

MikeH: Only way I could have avoided the taxes was with a reseller's tax ID number. Working on that now for next time!

Arthur: You ain't kidding! I didn't put in any live bids. I went through the auction and put what I thought were very conservative bids on several items that were of interest. The only item I REALLY wanted (like I was prepared to increase my bid during live bidding) was the Sunset 3751. But then as the auctions came rolling through, I was like "dang, that bid won? Oh, and that bid won? Wow!"

bob2: One of the auction lots I won was a 10-car set of Super Chief (1952-53) aluminum cars by Golden Gate Depot. I currently have an order with Golden Gate depot for the 1938 set, and they are charging $160 for shipping, and we are both in California! So even if that was all I won, I'd be paying $90 in airfare (plus rental) instead of $160 shipping. And the risk of transmission on planes is way lower than going to the grocery store or post office.

Trainchief: Thanks for the good news!

FlyPlanes-PlayTrains: Not too worried about the cold waiting to be loaded, but prospect of being "submerged in glycol" is a bit horrifying. Doesn't seem like doing that to customer's bags on a regular basis would be good for business. My heaviest bag will still be under 30 pounds, and the Southwest weight limit is 50 pounds per bag. So no extra charges there. I think about 30 cubic feet total, too much for the closet.

MikeinTallahasse: We did all carry-on for our recent trip to Reno. The one item not in OEM packing and the 4 items not in shipping boxes will be carry-on.

Simon Winter: I thought the 3rd Rail item was packed great, well-wrapped in paper and plastic, then taped to the wood board, just like it would have been coming from 3rd Rail. But the drop on the end was still enough for the draw-bar to poke through the box and bend on my cement porch. But my thought was that any shipping method they are getting tossed around from container to truck to another truck and so on. I have been in line many times at the US Post Office, watched a customer come in and set pre-paid packages on the counter, only to see the clerk toss said package 6 feet into a bin with other packages.

Went from XNA to PGH with a carry-on full of 027 track, a 1033 transformer and a couple of MTH bump and go trolleys back around '08 or so.  Natch, this came to the attention of the TSA folks, and I was politely asked to open the bag.  A bit of oohing and ahhing at the pretty electric trains, and I was on my way....   

Part of that trip was traveling on the Pennsylvanian from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia.  The conductor was a tad bemused at the little trolley buzzing about a circle of track in the cafe car... 

Mitch

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Went from XNA to PGH with a carry-on full of 027 track, a 1033 transformer and a couple of MTH bump and go trolleys back around '08 or so.  Natch, this came to the attention of the TSA folks, and I was politely asked to open the bag.  A bit of oohing and ahhing at the pretty electric trains, and I was on my way.... 

Part of that trip was traveling on the Pennsylvanian from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia.  The conductor was a tad bemused at the little trolley buzzing about a circle of track in the cafe car... 

Mitch

Wow XNA!  I haven't been there in years...our hotel was in Rogers, surrounded by good BBQ joints.  

Tom

@lionel1946 posted:

I "won" an embarassing number of items at a recent auction. I . . . found cheap airfare ($45) to Chicago on Southwest, and Southwest allows 2 checked bags.  So for $270, . . . we each get two checked bags, that's 6 bags

What are your thoughts?

Since you asked for my thoughts, I would think of the trains first, and avoid the drama that could potentially result from using unorthodox shipping methods for valuable trains.  I'd  go alone by air, rent a crossover or mini-van, for a one-way trip and do my own hauling.  Barring weather issues, the drive from Indiana to California can be done safely in 3 days.  Any vehicle with flat folding seats can handle the boxes that would fit in six suitcases.  If you can fly as early as possible on Friday, get the vehicle, go to Indiana and load up, on the same day, you can finish the trip on Monday and only have to miss two days of a typical work week.  I notice from your profile that you are a teacher, so perhaps Christmas break would provide you an opportunity to miss no workdays.  The thought of potentially shipping the trains both ways for repair and the repair cost, after airline baggage travel, is unappealing.  

Those are my thoughts about what I'd do, because the options for loss and damage are elevated using UPS or FedEx at this season, and I think it's a big risk to check them as baggage on a flight.  Also, Southwest only has a limited number of direct flights, and you did not say anything about intermediate stops or plane changes.  Every time the baggage bay of the airliner is opened, your checked suitcases are subject to more handling.

Let us know what you decide to do and the results obtained therefrom.

@lionel1946 posted:

Simon Winter: I thought the 3rd Rail item was packed great, well-wrapped in paper and plastic, then taped to the wood board, just like it would have been coming from 3rd Rail. But the drop on the end was still enough for the draw-bar to poke through the box and bend on my cement porch. But my thought was that any shipping method they are getting tossed around from container to truck to another truck and so on. I have been in line many times at the US Post Office, watched a customer come in and set pre-paid packages on the counter, only to see the clerk toss said package 6 feet into a bin with other packages.

The fact that the third rail piece was damaged refutes the idea that the packing was all that  good.

Your description of packages tossed through the air, is why I advocated picking the stuff up yourself.

Simon

@lionel1946 posted:

mwb: I have yet to lose any baggage during travel. Of course I'm hoping you are wrong. After all, if they were shipped Priority Mail (which would be insanely expensive) they would still be thrown on a plane.

Oh, sorry - was not clear. The baggage will arrive, but the contents might not.

@FlyPlanes-PlayTrains posted:

Wow XNA!  I haven't been there in years...our hotel was in Rogers, surrounded by good BBQ joints.  

Most of which, fortunately, are still up and running. 

Mitch

Rattler: didn’t take any pictures. We decided to have them ship the two biggest boxes (2 5-car passenger sets) because it would have put us over the carry on limit AND would have been over the airlines maximum dimensions. They gave me a shipping quote that was less than what Southwest charges for a 3rd bag, so that worked out.  Everything else fit into a Hyundai Santa Fe (our rental). A little nervous about it all fitting in our somewhat smaller car at the airport!

Jay

In the pre-911 days I stumbled on a hobby shop and bought a number of items when we had flown to visit my in laws.  We distributed the items through my wife and my bags and they survived.  Today I would probably rent a car and drive them if shipping wasn't an option.

Hello all. Just wanted to give an update on this trip. Was busy with the holidays, then busy with school (both schools) starting again. This front table is what I went to pick up.

I would have to say the trip was a great success. Besides seeing some of the beautiful countryside in Indiana, we each checked 2 bags for free (6 bags total) and were also able to get a couple items in carry on.

The most significant damage (if you could call it that) was a couple dents in the brown Sunset shipping boxes. None of them deep enough to do any damage to the OEM boxes. Also none of the dents were any worse than the big dent in a recent shipping box of Super Chief cars.

My biggest fear was getting them all into our car when arriving back at the airport. It was a close call, but we all fit.

I spent a week or so unpacking all of the locos and checking them out on a test track. No problems with any electronics at all. A couple of name plates had fallen off of passenger cars, but I think I heard them rattling around at the time of pickup, and they are an easy fix with a little glue. Similarly, there was a small piece of grill on both sides of the E units that had separated from the body, another easy fix with a spot of glue.

There was one very fun surprise. One of the items (actually the least expensive) was Weaver Santa Fe USRA Light Pacific. Differs considerable from the prototype, I had an engine like this back when they first came out in 2-rail TMCC (around 2005 Weaver and Atlas were dabbling in 2-rail TMCC for a while). Anyway, this is one of the items we were able to carry on the plane. When we got home, I started peeling the numerous labels off of the box. When I got down to the bottom most label, this is what I saw...

That's MY name and old PO Box in the "from" part of a Priority label, with the label addressed to Weaver Models. I had sent this back to Weaver in maybe 2006 or 2007 because they were offering cheap weathering, an area in which I have no expertise whatsoever. Anyway, what a great surprise it was to not only acquire an engine from the past, but the exact same engine I once owned.

It was a great trip filled with fun memories and great trains. Would do it again in a heartbeat if given the chance (and the same low airfare to Chicago!). And perhaps in warmer weather we might just make it a road trip.

P.S. One of the responses I got (that was later deleted) went something like this: "let me get this straight; you bought thousands of dollars worth of trains, and now try to save a few bucks on shipping". My attitude is this: whether I spent $100 on trains or $10,000 on trains, why should I pay one dollar more than I have to? Paying for shipping would have cost me hundreds of dollars more than the flights cost. Renting a U-haul for a couple days and getting hotels and meals along the way would have likewise been way more expensive than my flights. Plus they would get bounced around in a U-haul van or trailer, with all the starts and stops etc., as they would paying UPS or some other entity to ship. I also sent the auction house a cashier's check rather than pay the extra 3% they charge for CC transactions. I also got part of the buyer's premium waived because the description was badly wrong on one of the items. Put all that together and I saved at least $1000 doing it my way.

Along these same lines, I was speaking with a train dealer on the phone a couple years ago, and I asked if they could do any better on the price of an Atlas loco that I was interested in. The response I got was something like "you just bought a couple dozen California Zephyr cars, and now you're trying to save $50 on this loco?" (sound familiar?) Once again, regardless of what I may have spent last month, or what I may spend next month, why should that keep me from getting the best deal possible on the current transaction?

To anyone planning to buy a large amounts of trains in the future, until that time comes, talk to your local independent truck drivers and ask what their normal hauling routes are. If the auction house you normally buy from has a forklift, some pallets lying around, and a roll of stretch wrap. All they have to do is add up the weight of all the boxes, stretch wrap them to the skid, then tape to it a make shift load slip with the weight and TO and FROM addresses. Now it's ready for pick up and much easier then shipping each box individually. You would be surprised how little a trucker would charge to help a guy out while on his way home from a run, if the pick up is not far off his beaten path. Most truck back-hauls are partial or even empty loads. I did this several times with skids filled with short lengths of Kiln dried woodshop lumber from sawmills. I never paid more then $100.00 on a single skid or $50.00 each if there was more then one skid, on a back-haul. Imagine your neighbors thoughts when a tractor trailer is in front of your house with the four-ways on while your carrying a bunch of boxes into the house. LOL

Kudos on your trip to get your trains.

I have flown to auctions before to make sure the descriptions were accurate and enjoyed saving the shipping costs.  As for the cost of flying, I frequently fly Southwest and all of the auction flights were done using SW Points, so they were essentially free, with only the cost of a rental car and possibly hotel, if I had to spend the night.  I considered flying out to pick up a recent purchase, but in the end I did not have the time, so I had it shipped.

As for Stout's Indiana location, if there is a train I want at their auction house, I make the 3 hour 1-way drive to the auction.  It's a relaxing drive and it is fun to see all of the stuff and say hi to all of the nice people there.

NWL

Wow Jay!  You weren’t kidding, that is a huge haul of trains!!

Glad it worked out for you guys, I’m curious however what the TSA’s reaction was when you ran your carryons through the scanner.  Were you able the see their face when your items were going through?  I suspect he sat up a little, gave his screen a more detailed look, then looked over at your party to see who in the heck these bags belong to!

CONGRATULATIONS!!

Tom

@Dave Zucal posted:

To anyone planning to buy a large amounts of trains in the future, until that time comes, talk to your local independent truck drivers and ask what their normal hauling routes are. If the auction house you normally buy from has a forklift, some pallets lying around, and a roll of stretch wrap. All they have to do is add up the weight of all the boxes, stretch wrap them to the skid, then tape to it a make shift load slip with the weight and TO and FROM addresses. Now it's ready for pick up and much easier then shipping each box individually. You would be surprised how little a trucker would charge to help a guy out while on his way home from a run, if the pick up is not far off his beaten path. Most truck back-hauls are partial or even empty loads. I did this several times with skids filled with short lengths of Kiln dried woodshop lumber from sawmills. I never paid more then $100.00 on a single skid or $50.00 each if there was more then one skid, on a back-haul. Imagine your neighbors thoughts when a tractor trailer is in front of your house with the four-ways on while your carrying a bunch of boxes into the house. LOL

+1

I used Freightquote to deliver a John Deere lawn tractor to my home from out of state.  They broker small loads like this.  It was $350 and that included lift gate service to drop it in my driveway (the Deere dealer strapped it to a pallet).  That was my first and only experience with Freightquote but it worked out great.  And since I used a commercial carrier for pick-up/delivery, I didn't have to pay sales tax on the tractor (about $500).

Dave Z: That is an excellent suggestion. I will definitely look into that if an opportunity like this arises again.

NWL: It was a nice drive, and they are a great group of people. All the phone interactions I had with them were very nice. And even though one of the items (Sunset Santa Fe 3751) did not come with a box, they had it wrapped in bubble wrap and in a box when I came to pick up (which I thought was very nice since I had chosen to not have them ship).

Tom: I originally only wanted (had to have) two or three items: 1) the Sunset SF 3751, which I had owned in the past but had to sell; an Atlas F-7, that completes my ABBA set, and the Weaver SF Pacific (if the price was right). The auction for the Atlas F-7 I wanted actually contained two F-7s for $525; I sold the one I didn't need for $400, making my net cost only $125 on the unpowered A unit that I needed.

When looking at the other items in the auction, Steve Neil had SO MUCH Santa Fe stuff that it was overwhelming. I looked at several items, and put in bids that I thought were about 50% of retail (what I would consider a steal). Example, an AB pair of Atlas SF F-3s (I have Atlas F-3s to pull the zephyr cars, but never bought any of the SF F-3s), I thought would retail for about $700 or so ($500 for the powered, $250 for the unpowered), so I put in a bid of $400, won it for $375. Example, an AB pair of Sunset E-8s (pictured above) that originally sold for $700 EACH, I put in a bid of $700 for the PAIR, and won it for $675. Etc, etc, etc. I was watching the auction on one screen, while trying to teach on the other screen, and I just kept thinking "OMG that bid won?".

The main items I think I missed out on, looking back: the matching pair of Atlas F-3 (that would have made an ABBA set with the pair I did win) sold for $425; a GGD El Capitan 10-car set went for $1850 (retail was over $3000); and a Sunset SP AC-9 that went for $1400 and sold a month later on eBay for $2500.

As for the TSA, never saw any reaction. The checked bags at MDW were just placed on the conveyor by the Southwest clerks and disappeared behind the wall. No reaction at all when going through TSA with the Weaver SF Pacific in one bag and two passenger cars in another bag.

MikeH: Having a FBN and Tax ID come in handy on a purchase like this, not having to pay the sales tax.