https://ogrforum.com/...-of-the-tmcc-upgrade
Guess I'll be switching to PS3 upgrades.
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I've been following all the wailing and gnashing of keyboards on the subject.
This is why I feel fine not being beholden to all the electronic paraphernalia being installed in the model trains today.
For me, it's the physical locomotive, how well it represents its prototype and runs with basic operation. It doesn't have to be rivet-by-rivet accurate, just so long as it looks "right" via my assessment.
Command and sound are merely "icing on the cake" for me. Neaty-keeno yes, but not required for my enjoyment of the hobby.
I'm just as content running a model conventionally as I am be it via DCC, TMCC/Legacy or DCS. I won't not buy a model because it is conventional.
Rusty
Chuck,
Whoa. Bummer to put it mildly. Thanks for the update. If this means the end of all ERR product availability it is truly sad newS for the hobby. Jon, Ken and the ERR crew have done wonders for Lionel American Flyer products (the miniaturization and standardization of Legacy that enabled engines like the SD70, ES44ACe, Mallet, etc., plus the development of Flyer Chief), all the more the great conversion boards with which they got started before Lionel bought them out. Would be nice to hear confirmation of this from ERR and whether it means complete termination of their products or that they'll be available independently/separately like before.
Meanwhile, our friends in HO and N go merrily chugging along using DCC and/or conventional DC.
There are some proponents to battery and Blue Rail in HO, but it hasn't taken the scale by storm.
Rusty
Sgaugian posted:ould be nice to hear confirmation of this from ERR and whether it means complete termination of their products or that they'll be available independently/separately like before.
Reposting from the 3-rail forum:
"Folks,
I wanted to weigh in a bit on this thread as after all I founded Electric RR, and I am still involved with the operations of the Lionel CA office which is closing this year. I don't believe in my heart that Lionel wants to hurt the hobby in any way, they just have few options going forward with Electric RR. Lionel owns the entirety of Electric RR, and I do not have a "revert to me" clause. I sold this entity to Lionel a log time ago to keep it viable after I joined Lionel. It was a good move for me, and for Lionel, as the solid profits helped keep the CA office expenses down.
Electric RR has been a good run for technology that is 12+ years old. I hired Ken to run Electric RR 10 or so years ago. Ken is the lifeblood of the current business, as many of you can attest by interactions with him. Ken is ready to retire, and is well into his 80's, God bless. Without Ken, Electric RR is no more.
Electric RR Inventory is almost all zero, and it will take 4-6 months to rebuild. Restarting is complicated. Adding to this, my investment in the technology has been nil for years, and the parts obsolescence is a BIG factor. Much of the electronics need attention to continue to be made, although the core PCBs are still manufacturer-able for the OEMs. I do have to adjust code for the OEMs at times, which I am sure I will do if asked to keep them on track 
I share your disappointment, as founder of Electric RR. Tough to see it fade away, although it may be that it is revived at some point. There are tough choices, and I am sure the Lionel management is looking at them. Eventually, it will sort out and things will be fine. As they say, when one door closes, 2 more open - you just have to find them! Your feedback is good, and please continue to enjoy this fine hobby.
In closing, the nice comments about the products are really heart warming for me, as I really feel connected to the hobby with my small contribution.
Thank you.
jon"
Rusty
Dead rail and blue rail have their potential, but I think they'll need to become more robust for S at least in terms of amperage rating (especially in order to work with smoke elements) and battery life. But who knows, maybe this is the future for uS and it will eliminate the need for power of any type (AC, DC, DCC) put to the rails to run your trains anywhere you want to with the need for power only to recharge them. Here's a great site for info on battery power in S gauge -- http://pmrr.org/Articles/indexElectronicsS-CAB.htm
Thanks Rusty. I just found that post from Jon as well. Wonder if they can/will fill orders?
Looks like all Lionel with board failures in the future will be converted to DCS. Pretty bad business decision by Lionel.
Rusty Traque posted:Meanwhile, our friends in HO and N go merrily chugging along using DCC and/or conventional DC.
Rusty
I must admit, that's pretty much true. Tried-and-true accepted standards, thanks largely to the NMRA, have made things a whole lot easier for the HO and N crowd. There's a bit of a learning curve with DCC, but certainly not one 99% of the hobbyists out there can't negotiate.
Kerrigan posted:Looks like all Lionel with board failures in the future will be converted to DCS. Pretty bad business decision by Lionel.
One of many these days.
I think this is disastrous for GRJ, Timko, Atlas and 3rd Rail. As John Z stated about electronic parts availability getting harder to find, there will be no more re-engineering for continuous tmcc board availability. How will Lionel be able to continue supplying boards to the above firms? Looks like Atlas and 3rd Rail may be going back to conventional or perhaps lntroduce the first 3 rail DCC set up.
romiller49 posted:Looks like Atlas and 3rd Rail may be going back to conventional or perhaps lntroduce the first 3 rail DCC set up.
That's a nice idea but one of the problems is DCC cannot coexist with TMCC or DCS at the same time on the same track. On the same layout in a separate loop yes it definitely can but having said that I would love to see DCC to make some inroads in 3 rail. But one never knows. I hope you are right.
Just thinking out loud here but if Atlas and 3rd Rail went to DCC then they would only have to make one set of electronics for both 2 and 3 rail locomotives. And if some 3 rail folks went with DCC they could also run their MTH PS3 locomotives with any other DCC locomotive just by flipping the DCS/DCC switch.
I'll stick with my tried and true Prewar and Postwar Lionel trains.
First Pic not as clear as I wanted ( thanks to my wide angle lens and the angle I was shooting but still there.
The space in the top train is for two 810 cranes out for repairs at present. And one more 812 Gondola.
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Now am I disappointed to hear about ERR, Yes very as did have some Williams I wanted to convert. It also was my hope to get a proto sound engine on the cheap as now there is proto 2 and 3 to my knowledge and most don't want the proto 1
Folks, this thread is on an S scale forum and has S in the topic heading. Let's please stick to S scale aspects of the topic.
Chuck K posted:Folks, this thread is on an S scale forum and has S in the topic heading. Let's please stick to S scale aspects of the topic.
This is about the loss of an operating system that covers more than one scale not just S scale. It doesn’t matter what topic it’s under. The moderators of this forum will move it if they see fit.
Here's an interesting excerpt from a presentation by Lionel LLC's Ryan Kunkel at last Friday's OGR Grandstand meeting at York as reported and posted by Steve of MrMuffin'strains:
"Ryan announced that 2017 was the best year for Lionel in over a decade and thanked everyone for their purchases and their support. He said the factories have stopped asking Lionel for more work as they keep up with the shipping of new products...."
If this statement is indeed true, then why has Lionel planned to turn their backs on the TMCC segment of their markeing base by calously casting away ERR which hasn't lost but rather reportedly generated $5,000 for Lionel during this same period? I personally question the integrity and honesty of this thank you comment from Lionel LLC. considering that less than 24 hours later it was reported that the same Lionel LLC. would be turning their backs on these same layal customers by abandoning TMCC and ERR.
Is this the way, Lionel, to thank your customers for their purchases and support?
Why wasn't this news included by Mr. Kunkel in his comments at the Grandstand meeting? Maybe to avoid hearing the thoughtful questioning, feedback, and open, honest discussion such an announcement was likely to elicit from attendees at that meeting? While Lionel doesn't owe it's customers transparency regarding their decisions or why and how they arrive at them, at the very least, have enough respect for your followers at that meeting to inform them of any decision to cease ERR at this open meeting rather than blindside them with the news less than 24 hours after the Grandstand meeting ended?
The blind loyalty displayed by operators and collectors i not reciprocated. ACG and JL Cowen are long
gone and there is only love of profit and no love for the product or customers. Get used to it.
Herb Wasserman
The interesting thing is, there hasn't been any comments on the S-Trains Yahoo or io groups about this. I'm not a member, but I do lurk there.
Either they don't know or don't care.
Rusty
Allan Miller posted:Rusty Traque posted:Meanwhile, our friends in HO and N go merrily chugging along using DCC and/or conventional DC.
Rusty
I must admit, that's pretty much true. Tried-and-true accepted standards, thanks largely to the NMRA, have made things a whole lot easier for the HO and N crowd. There's a bit of a learning curve with DCC, but certainly not one 99% of the hobbyists out there can't negotiate.
I personally think this is a good thing and perhaps should extend to all proprietary systems. If Lionel and MTH put their R&D money into trains rather than proprietary electronic systems we wouldn’t have to put up with all this non-comparability stuff and extra expense. The electronic boards will do nothing but fail in the future – why go through the head ache?
I use DC to operate and all my original ACG Flyer has no problem with it. The only thing I do with Flyonel proprietary electronics is to gut it from my engines so they can operate on DC and maybe upgrade to DCC in the future.
Tom Stoltz in Maine
"it was reported that the same Lionel LLC. would be turning their backs on these same loyal customers by abandoning TMCC and ERR."
Just a caution here. All that has been announced is that ERR is closing. The reasons given by Jon Z. are that profits are modest, but he also pointed out that parts availability has become an issue and, most importantly, the single key person is 80+ years of age and wishes to retire. Nothing about abandoning TMCC, making upgrades unavailable, etc. These issues will no doubt be addressed in the coming months. If the key person is going to retire next month, they had no choice but to close ERR now, even before completely planning for the future. Does anyone think that they had a year or two's notice about this retirement? I'd be surprised. Lionel may have had only days or weeks notice themselves. Until more is known, we should cut them a bit of slack, in my view.
Thus before we assume the end of civilization as we know it is nigh, let's see what comes in the next few months from Lionel in terms of announcements of parts availability, alternative approaches to command upgrades, etc. Panic is rarely the most useful response 
. And it causes what may ultimately seem, in retrospect, unnecessary misery and worry.
Landsteiner------ I really like what you are saying here. People always want to assume the very worst and keep building on that before the facts are known.
Why doesn't someone contact the appropriate person at Lionel and get a good answer? They should be in the office soon now that York is over.
As I said in another thread, we already have a long thread about these concerns. We don't need to have a multitude of the same and/or similar topic. Please post over on the current thread which is referenced to by the original poster above....
