frustrated beyond belief building 2019 Christmas layout

WALT RAPP  I am no dcs guru but can relate to frustration when nothing you do works!  first thing I would do is remove that 2nd aiu that you say when addressing the first one to do something the second aiu is trying to do same remove that second aiu as in it gets no connections or power totally isolated then see if things work. 

next is it a major pain in the rear to start removing wires connected until issue goes away best I can do to help you  and I hope to see your 2019 creation this year as you always make something unique!

and lastly I find walking away and doing other things it helps to calm me down and sometimes the answer pops into my head on what is wrong and the fix.

I thought with command control you only had to hook up two wires.

I agree with StPaul. Disconnect both AIUs . While you're at it, do a factory reset of the TIU. I would start with one AIU. If it works, I would swap cables and see if it still works. You've only got 6 components, remote, TIU, AIUs, and cables. Process of elimination, just keep rotating options. Stay with it, you'll find the culprit.

I did do some of the above but didn't include those things since the post was already too long.  Here's what I did though: AIU #1 was working so I unplugged it and plugged AIU #2 in its place.  It didn't work.  When I plugged AIU #1 back in, it no longer worked even though AIU #2 was not connected again!!!

Sunday I found that the voltage going to the switch posts at AIU #1 was only 4.1V - maybe too low to actually activate a switch.  I didn't really do anything after that other than to remove the switch wires that went to AIU #2 and somehow that cured the voltage issue and AIU #1 was back in operation.

Sunday I did more testing.  I think AIU #2 has an issue or AIU #1 has an issue with the port that is used to connect it to AIU #2.  I say that because yesterday when I had both hooked up again when I activated an accessory programmed for AIU#1 I it worked but I also heard clicking in AIU #2.  No way that should happen.  BTW: I tried 2 different cables between the 2 AIUs to rule out a bad cable.

I redesigned the part of the layout AIU #2 was going to be used on and removed it and the switches it was to control - I am basically giving up on it until after I tear the layout down.  I'll control the lights by the old fashioned way of just using the transformer's knobs to turn things on/off.  the part controlled by AIU #1 was able to stay as planned thank goodness.

So at least it won't be a catastrophe this year.  I'll still have 4 trains running with some lighting and all of the planned for scenery.

thanks for letting me vent!  I needed  it.

- walt 

out of curiosity is the second aiu address same as the first one? or do they have addresses assigned to them?

and are the data and? wires daisy chained correctly. lastly hopefully you will find joy moving forward on this years Christmas layout maybe time for beverage of choice and the polar express movie to set the mood!

Walt, 

Can you just swap the AIU's order? Are your AIU's new? Was told the batch we have need a software update. ???

Keep going, I (and I'm sure many others) always enjoy your layouts!!

walt rapp posted:

thanks for letting me vent!  I needed  it.

- walt 

I only wish we lived closer. I would have grabbed the tool bag and come over to help. 

Gilly

Glad to hear that you are back on track. Always enjoy seeing your photos of your layout all year long and with your permission I intend to copy your theme of a Xmas memory all year long 

As I mentioned in my very long post, I have switched the 2 AIUs to no avail.  There is no software to speak of in an AIU - it is no more than a pile of relays. AIUs don't have numbers assigned to them like TIUs do - the order that they are daisy chained together determines their 'number'.

Gilly = I too wish that you lived closer given your offer!!!!!

I'm ready to move on and tackle this again after I tear down this year's layout.

- walt

walt rapp posted:

As I mentioned in my very long post, I have switched the 2 AIUs to no avail.  There is no software to speak of in an AIU - it is no more than a pile of relays. AIUs don't have numbers assigned to them like TIUs do - the order that they are daisy chained together determines their 'number'.

Gilly = I too wish that you lived closer given your offer!!!!!

I'm ready to move on and tackle this again after I tear down this year's layout.

- walt

do you mean your starting a entirely new layout or just removing the areas that had the second aiu ? I would take second aiu and hook it up to a switch nothing else and connect it just to verify its the aiu at issue all you lose is your time and effort. but tis the season to see what you create this year!

hope all goes well from here on out getting the second layout up and running.

Walt,

It was something in the TIU software for controlling the AIU ports.

Way to hang in there Walt. I always enjoy your layouts. 

Hi Walt. I know this doesn’t solve your problem but have you considered maybe simplifying the operation a little and set up on something like folding tables? Your knees would appreciate it and maybe you could change things up a bit. Kind of a less is more thing.  Just an idea. 💡

Dennis Rempel posted:

I thought with command control you only had to hook up two wires.

One wire if it's Legacy/TMCC.  And, it almost always works.  

Sorry, Walt, that you're having those frustrating problems.  You'll get it done!  Merry Christmas!

BobbyD posted:

Walt,

It was something in the TIU software for controlling the AIU ports.

what an interesting and potentially very important comment.  thanks for making it.  BUT....I haven't updated the TIU in years though and I would think that  software doesn't just 'go bad' for no reason.  But I won't dismiss it.

StPaul: I redesigned the section of the layout that AIU#2 was used on to control lights and switches.  I was able to keep the track design mostly the same, sans switches.  The scenery will remain as planned.

In a sick way I can't wait to tear the layout down so I can take the 2 AIUs and my TIU (now that BobbyD threw that in the mix) to my LHS authorized repair person.

Chris: I can't use tables and benchwork because I have no where to store the stuff.  Thus, floor it is and I really don't mind.  Even at 70, luckily it's not a problem for my knees.

As always, thanks all - walt

Walt,

This is what we had:   https://mthtrains.com/news/018

"March 15, 2011 - In December 2010, M.T.H. Electric Trains released a new Rev. L Track Interface Unit (TIU) that significantly improves DCS signal strength on many layouts. However, a small issue has surfaced recently that may cause some Rev. L TIUs to malfunction.

The malfunction affects accessory (ACC) ports 1-6 of any Accessory Interface Unit (AIU) connected to an affected Rev. L TIU and causes the DCS Remote to be unable to activate Accessory (ACC) Ports 1-6. All AIU switch track (SW) ports and ACC ports 7-10 are unaffected. If your Rev. L TIU has this problem, please see the 3-step solution below.

• The first step is to download the correction TIU software update by clicking here.
• The second step is to install the correction software update onto the Rev. L TIU using the DCS Loader Program 2.20, just as you would when loading any software update into a TIU. After installing the correction software, cycle power on and off to the TIU.
• The third and final step is to immediately reinstall DCS 4.20 onto the Rev. L TIU using the DCS Loader Program 2.20.

  If you are unable to load DCS software or have some reservations in doing so, M.T.H. recommends that you contact M.T.H. Technical Support at 410-381-2580 (M-F, 12:00pm to 5:00pm EST)."

Software doesn't generally go bad, but inherent flaws can never be an issue then creep in because the right scenario came into play.  If you can update your software, that would be the best bet.

I don't have internet access at home so I'll have to ask the LHS authorized repair person to do it.

I do have the "L" TIU.  This is strange because I installed 4.10 (I think that's it) when, 10 years ago or so (I had internet back then), and never updated since then.  It does everything that I want and has for all of that time, flawlessly.  I had 2 AIUs since the very beginning and typically I use all 20 ACC and switch ports and it has always worked.

Like I mentioned earlier, since it's hard to get the wires into the tiny holes in the AIU, I connect them at the kitchen table by running wires from it to barrier strips 6" away.  I then easily can connect layout wires to the barrier strips when I get them to the layout.  When I do this at the table I take the time to confirm that EVERY Sw and ACC port is working (actually I'm really testing that all wires are making good contact.  I never questioned the hardware or SOFTWARE itself).

The comment about only ACC 1-6 being affected is interesting since the only ones that I tried so far are #3, 4, and 6.  I'll have to test ACC #7 when I get home to see if it works on AIU #2.

TEXASSP: I was a programmer (mainframe and web) for 30 years and I know that sometimes a program could run for a decade until that perfect situation that you mentioned would arise.  I wonder in this case what situation arose.  Hmm.

BobbyD - thanks so much for the tip.  I can't easily get the TIU out right now but as soon as I tear down I'll follow up!

As always, thanks - walt