Frustrating Short Circuit, Please Help!

Neat looking layout. I hope you have a volt-ohm meter. My suggestion is to "remove" the middle track electrically. Then add back five foot sections one at a time, So you can test it, run a loco, measure voltage, resistance, etc. At some point one of those sections or connections will identify it contains the problem. Hope this helps.

hokie71 posted:

Neat looking layout. I hope you have a volt-ohm meter. My suggestion is to "remove" the middle track electrically. Then add back five foot sections one at a time, So you can test it, run a loco, measure voltage, resistance, etc. At some point one of those sections or connections will identify it contains the problem. Hope this helps.

First off thank you, unfortunately I do not have a volt-ohm meter but I know what I'm buying tomorrow! I will try testing the loop out in sections, but every time I disconnect the loop and open the track the short circuit no longer exists. With a volt-ohm meter will I be able to detect voltage irregularities even with the loop being incomplete? Also what kind of read out should I look for on the volt-ohm meter to determine a bad piece of track?

Jedderbob posted:

 unfortunately I do not have a volt-ohm meter but I know what I'm buying tomorrow!

Your best bet is to get a cheep one at Harbor Freight, some times you can find a coupon for a free one!  You don't need anything fancy to find a short.

If you don't actually have one of your feeder wires crossed, which is easy to do when you have a lot of them, you may want to inspect the track itself. Make sure there are no metal objects shorting the rails. If you don't find it that way, you may want to take that loop up and inspect all of the sections for a short. This is less likely with Fastrack, but still a remote possibility.

When you get the meter, break the loop into equal parts, and set the meter to Ω (Ohms). If you get a zero reading the short is in that section. Repeat this cutting and testing process until you find it. If you were using tubular track, it is very common to have a bad insulator on brand new track. Fastrack maybe not so much, but you still have to check it.

I have three lionel 180 bricks and had a short, when going from one block to another finally i found that one of the brick was made out of phase from the factory. you can only in one way but the problem it was wired backward coming out of the brick to the track. 

Make sure that you have not reversed the hot and return wires in the middle loop. 

in viewing your pictures it appears that in your wiring you have merely twisted your feeder wires. Take time to make sure that two of these are not touching and as stated earlier that one or more feeder wires are not crossed, I would disconnect all feeder wires on that middle loop and reconnect one at a time and test after each connection is made.  Also check that your transformers or Powerhouses are in phase.

Ray

I've checked that my wires are not crossed. I have been up and down the track time and time again and none of these wires are crossed or touching. The hot goes to the hot and the ground goes to the ground. I have wire nuts over most of the connections to insulate them from touching the ground and none are touching. Is it possible that the different levers of the ZW-L could be out of phase with each other? I am only using that one transformer and powering the loops with the different posts on the ZW-L.

Jedderbob posted:

...

As I was wiring these I discovered something rather odd. The outermost loop works without issue, as does the innermost loop. However the middle loop short circuits the moment that power is applied.

To be clear, if you disconnect the power to the middle loop at the transformer do you still get the short circuit when power is applied to the other loop(s)? 

I'm not clear on whether this is an issue with multiple transformer "hot" power shorting together (e.g., phasing issue or whatever) as opposed to a short in the middle loop track wiring itself.  For example, can you operate a train in the middle loop when it is disconnected from the other loops?

It's a safe bet that the ZWL is not the problem. Make sure the yard is center rail detached before going back into the outer loop.  It definitely sounds like a reversed wiring situation. I did the same thing and it took me three rechecks before I found it.

Rod Miller

Thank you for all the replies everybody! Today I went out and bought a volt-ohm meter as some of you suggested and broke apart the middle loop, measuring everything piece by piece. It turns out one of the long straight sections that I used in the middle loop was the culprit. Even when powered the meter read 0 Ω. I replaced the bad section and I've been running trains most of the day since. Thank you all!

Just for the record, don't try to measure ohms with the power on. As Gunrunnerjohn would say, you might let the Magic Smoke out of your meter.

Good to hear you are up and running

RAY

Good job finding the problem. You've moved up a rung on the experience ladder, and have a new tool in your kit.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Good job finding the problem. You've moved up a rung on the experience ladder, and have a new tool in your kit.

Amen and thanks to you especially, your comment and aid was the most helpful.

Jedderbob posted:

Thank you for all the replies everybody! Today I went out and bought a volt-ohm meter as some of you suggested and broke apart the middle loop, measuring everything piece by piece. It turns out one of the long straight sections that I used in the middle loop was the culprit. Even when powered the meter read 0 Ω. I replaced the bad section and I've been running trains most of the day since. Thank you all!

What was bad about that piece?  Have you examined it to see if you could find the culprit?

@MartyE I took a cursory look at it and couldn't find any glaring issues with the rails. It's one of those 3-in-one FasTrack straights so it could really use a through check but I've just been too busy running trains to bother yet

It would be interesting to know what caused the problem. Where exactly were you measuring 0 ohms with the power on? Did this section have a feeder? When you get time, maybe a picture of the underside of the piece would show something.