Gargraves Flex Track......

I have use Gargraves flex track for both S-Scale and O Scale as I have pre war Flyer. I reccomend that you use the stainless steel version. S-scale Gargraves is not very difficult to use and is almost the same height as American Flyer track and switches. I have seen newer switches being made and also sectional track. I cannot comment on the newest stuff but the older switches were only usable with Flyer wheel flanges. The fit and finish of the earlier switches left alot to be desired. However you can use gargraves with Flyer Switches. When ballasted the track looks pretty good. Better than Flyer track with added ties but definately not scale like in appearance. With a little filing of the flex track to remove the underside web you can attach any Flyer track trip or accessory.

Most of my track is GarGraves sectional track, but I have used the stainless steel flextrack for those odd size lengths and curves. I've found it to be 100% compatible with AF track & switches (turnouts). Moreover, nothing can beat those real wooden ties!

Myself, I've always used the tinplate GarGraves and like it very much.  It is cheaper, plus how would you cut stainless?

I've had 2 layouts with Gargraves and stainless gargraves cuts as easily as tinplate. Got to watch the short radius curves with the flax track as it will kink if bent too sharply. Gargraves does not accumulate grime like Flyer tinplate so cleaning is almost a non issue. If using Flyer switches about the only cleaning required is the switch frogs which seem to lose conductivity quickly. Conductivity is great on Gargraves as when using any Flyer engine you rarely see any sparking from the pickup wheels or shoes.

 

Rich

I use the tinplate. Bend it slow and careful around things - frisbees, pots, whatever is the right size - to get great results. I have a 6 inch radius trolley loop on my shelf layout that works like a charm. Something I noticed - around here, the real railroads curves and straights aren't so perfect. Mine are better.

 

I use the switches, too, which everyone seems to diss but they work fine for me for trolleys and switchers. Inexpensive, too.

My local hobby shop recommends tin plate over stainless.  Says that stainless wears out wheels faster than tinplate because it is harder.  Anyone have similar experience?

 

PHM

If you are starting fresh, stay away from Gargraves.  It was great in its day only because there wasn't anything else available.  There are too many up to date products on the market to even consider this relic.

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

One of the big advantages of Gargraves is Ross Switches.  Learn about the curved #6 and allow yourself long sidings complete with proper easements into curves, etc.  Why not Ross track?  I dunno.  When I started and posted a similar question, 8 out 10 were Gargraves/Ross responses.  That was three years ago, and I don't believe much has changed since then.

 

Mike

Bending Gargraves Flextrack:

I have used Gargraves Flextrack[tinplate] since the late 1980s and both Curtis [late '80s] and Ross Turnouts on three large layouts with great satisfaction. Those layouts are now dismantled due to age and health issues in favor of a little 9x16 round the wall "senior citizens" operation in a finished 9x19 attic room which uses recycled track and turnouts from one of the dismantled layouts.

 

From the beginning I have installed the flextrack in curves without prebending or using my belly, water heater,etc. I layout my track plan, swing a radius with a tape and mark a curve arc for the centerline--center rail. I use split cork [for raised mainline ballast base] and install to align the Flextrack center rail to the seam in the cork----bending and fastening as I progress from the trailing end of a 37"section to the leading end. [of course using cork is optional-you can easily  mark the arc on plywood, Homasote, foam,etc.]

 

It is easy to avoid kinking by this gradual bending procedure, even with 18" radi[036]. Then as you move forward, the trailing screws you install stablize the trailing track as you advance, installing screws every 8-9 ties, gradually bending as you progress to align center rail with the cork seam.  Most important, and the most frequent complaint regarding flextrack, is difficulty establishing a perfect curve at the joint of two curve sections.

 

At any curve joint I leave both the leading end of the first section I installed and the trailing end of the new section being laid/bent "wild". "Wild", in that the last screw in both sections is about 7-8 ties back from the joint. I fit the section's pins in rail ends knowing the center and outer rails will separate as I move forward with the new section, bending and fastening the new section[you are going to be removing excess ties in curves]. As I reach 7-8 ties from the leading end of the new section and install a screw, I lay my forearm on the section and gently drive up the center and outer rails at the trailing joint--but not jam tight.

 

Then I place a block or end of my small hammer handle flat on the benchwork and against the outer tie ends precisely at the joint and ease the track in until the center rail aligns with the center cork seam. Then I drill and install a screw in the second tie back from the joint on both sections thereby conforming the joint to the trailing and leading curve--[snug track screws, but do not overtighten and distort the track and tap up the rails to close the joint]. Then I do the same procedure all over again with the next section.

 

TIPS:

Avoid ending up a curve with a short section. If you have,for example, say 50" to reach the end of the overall curve arc back to straight--cut two 25" sections instead of a normal 37"section plus a 13" section. Your can screw a 13" piece down and bend it but it is a chore---We have done it with Streetcar track but carefully!

 

I remove the track screws after glue ballasting is cured, fill the holes and color the tie with black/brown Sharpies.

 

When you complete a curve bend, you will have staggered rail ends at the leading end. You can cut the rails off square with the Dremel or you can just join them in a "staggered" fit. I find it easier to "ease" the track joints at the curve, in as noted above, with a squared joint.

 

If installing curved flextrack on thick foam such as 2", drill out the foam with a 3/4" spade bit about every 7-8 ties around the curve arc and install/glue 3/4" round pine dowels of about 1-1/4" long to receive track screws. Of course at the joints a couple of dowels or a block to receive screws two ties back each side of the joint is necessary to "ease" it in and fasten.

 

 

Forgive me if I stepped on any 0 gauge toes, I thought I was addressing an S gauge audience. I will stand by my statement, at least for S scale layouts, this tubular product is very out dated… just for looks alone.  But when you compare it to the solid rail offerings of today, Gargraves is really a relic from the past.  Tinplated or stainless steel just isn’t in the same ball park as nickel-silver when it comes to rail for a model railroad.

 

Yes, there are a lot of neat things from the past and if that is the look you want for your layout, I don’t have a problem with that.  Mark from Oregon appears to be asking about a choice of trackage systems, starting a new layout – and because this is an S gauge forum – my opinion is stay away from Gargraves.

 

Tom Stoltz

In Maine

No offense taken - I use the 'all topics' link so didn't realize there was an S gauge forum!

 

In O Gauge, realism isn't always all it's cracked up to be, thank heavens...

Good afternoon all.  I am new to the Forum.  With respect to Strummer's original question concerning track, I too am looking for an S gauge track solution.  I recently tore down my 8.5' x 11 O gauge layout (it was my first layout but too many rookie mistakes).  Once I had the room empty I began rethinking the size I have to work with; O gauge works but it is snug.  HO is too small for my tastes.  Also, being close to Des Plaines Hobby here in IL, I began to look seriously at S.  But here's a summary of what I'm wrestling with:

 

1) Gargraves track - with respect to Tom Stoltz's comments (hi Tom, I emailed you a few weeks back); I agree that there are more prototypical options.  However, at least Gargraves has track available, and it is made here in the states.  That said, switches appear to be an issue.

 

2) SHS track - Tom, you and others recommend it, and perhaps rightfully so; but if we're entering the world of S Scale just how can we get it? I know the SK supply issues, but even if it comes on line late in 2012, I'm afraid that the pent up demand will be great and thus obtaining it will still be an issue into 2013.

 

3) American Models - frankly, I like the look.  Hi Rail and Scale running options are appealing with the code 148 rails, but here too, switches are an issue for "Scale." Also, through comments of a few others that I have inquired directly to, they tend to shy away from recommending it or, in fact,  have replaced it on their layouts.  Not completely sure why?  Anyone have any thoughts?

 

4) Shinohara - Scenery Unlimited is here in the neighborhood as well (I never knew Illinois had so much to offer!!).  But how "finicky" is running Scale motive and rolling stock?  I like to watch my trains run; if I want derailments, I'll just go over to my dad's house and watch his HO units try to consistently go cleanly through some switches!).

 

SO, perhaps like Strummer, I'm eager to pull the trigger, but with what track system?!?  As any of you former O-gauger's know "prototypical" can only be taken so far when you have a 3rd middle rail.  Yes, benchwork is important, but as we all know, track is the foundation of any operating model railroad, and my inability to get a grip on the options is leaving me unnerved about switching scales from O to S.  Any help or perspective would be greatly appreciated.  Paul

Personally, I hate the stuff. But remember, I lean towards the scale side. The SHS solid rail flex is the best flex I have used in any scale. In code 100 Tomalco is good. It is more difficult to shape, but it looks really good. I would rather use Lionel Fastrack or SHS S-Trax anyday before using Gargraves. Unless you are already invested in Gargraves or really want the timplate look for some reason, then I would say there are better options out there.

Another track to consider is American "S" Gauge:

http://www.classictrains.com/index.htm

Code 172 N/S on molded UV resistant ABS ties. 

 

Greg

 

"Another track to consider is American "S" Gauge:

http://www.classictrains.com/index.htm

Code 172 N/S on molded UV resistant ABS ties."

 

HI Greg,

 

I agree, the Am S Gauge track is a good choice for the person who would like a 'tinplate' -- vintage -- feel to their layout.  It mates with original Flyer track and switches.

 

On a related topic, that of SHS rail.  The new Lionel S gauge rail is the same as SHS rail.  A while back there was someone from Lionel requesting product feedback.  I would suggest writing him, letting him know there is a market for the code 138 rail independent of the FasTrack roadbed.  The first one who comes out with a SHS flex track knock-off will have a hot product.

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hi Tom,

I really don't have a dog in this fight.  I use code 100 rail and make my own turnouts.  The American S Guage track is much better looking than the Gargraves IMHO and the turnouts look like they could support both scale and AF flanges.  I figured that since this thread is leaning towards high rail in nature ASG should not be left out of the picture.  As far as price goes, you get what you pay for.  When AM came out with their FP7, I used Gargraves and wasn't impressed.  Used HO code 100 flex provided my cheap rail for S scale standard guage track.  But having said that, hand laid track isn't for everyone. 

 

Cheers,

Greg

I own some sections of Gargraves tinplated rail flex. I am strictly experimenting with them for now. I have about 40 by 3 feet to my name and only own about 4 total flextrack sections.

 

My experiences so far has been positive. However I am heavily considering the Solid rail alternatives or even the MTH's Real Trax as a future. More than likely I might end up with a bunch of different kinds of flex doing different kinds of work on the railroad.

 

But as things go in O scale compared to what I was used to as a child, some of these new track systems are a dream come true.

 

Note.. Ross Tinplate switches with very big frogs will cause a scale wheel to "Dip down" as it crosses. I run high rail wheels to work around that.

 

Having said all that, feeling and working with the wood ties on the Gargraves track system... makes it very hard to go back to the old Plastic or metal ties. IMHO.

I'm returning to s gauge l also have mixed feelings about track choice. I have lots of tin much purchased 5 sections of gargrave and it's nice easy to bend, however it's still tin. I had HO nickel silver and it's great. With gargrave or vintage track switches are the issue, I lost an engine to the floor derailment not happy. They don't look real. where I live there isn't much support or others to learn from I'm hoping to get better advise joining this form. There is a lot of choices for track selection. Gargrave wooden ties look nice. Any advise will be appreciated

My layout is completely made with Lionel American Flyer Fastrack.

I could not be more pleased.

Initial loose laying of the track to obtain a pleasing track plan and to see if the trains would run well showed an important point.

The original loop was 75 feet long...no turnouts...just a 75 foot long dogbone with only one 10" piece of the track hooked to the power supply.

There was NO voltage drop anywhere and the trains ran perfectly whether near or far from the trans.

I naturally added more power feeds (about every 8 feet) before fastening the track to the benchwork but the conductivity of the track is first rate.

S-Helper-Service (now MTH) track is equally dependable and offers more track radii than Fastrack at present. Prices for each brand are comparable. Shop around.

The 2013 catalogs for each maker show turnouts, straights and curves and now Fastrack offers some crossovers.

MTH S gauge track also offers longer sections of a flex-track w/o roadbed so you can achieve many wider radius turns. Just add your own roadbed.

All-in-all if you want dependable operation opt for the solid rail track offered by either of those makers.

Use the tubular rail tracks out there for storage yards, etc.

Anyway that's my take on the subject.

Good Luck!

Mark

We've a couple hundred feet of regular Gargraves with Ross turnouts.   I like the flexibility and appearance.

 

I believe they were a possible victim of the China meltdown the same as S Helper?

 

I thought it was a nice product and have a small amount which I use at Christmas time. The only downside is/was the price, a bit expensive when you compare it to the other alternatives like the MTH and Lionel systems which are similar and the American Models.