I have the 2nd edition of Barry's book, I downloaded everything, (using Windows XP), ran the .exe files, opened the DCS Loader, but as stated in the book, I have to use, Option 9pin serial etc. How do you get it to work through the USB of the computer to the Type B USB in the TIU??
I have looked on here, but it seems like there is no "this is what you do" in black and white. So what do I do?
I'm about to give up and just leave everything at the release it currently is.
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Top menu under the Options selections you have to sometimes set the correct serial port manually. Seems like there is usually only a couple of selections there, but it's been a while...
The DCS loader will display the instructions on the screen, then just follow those exactly as it says.
The only option is the Serial port.
Now I've gotten as far as to cycle the TIU off and then on, but that just keeps popping up no matter what I do... makes no sense
Could be your USB to Serial adapter. Some on the forum have had problems with some brands.
I use one from Staples that works good.(18762) Of course I' going from USB to serial on TIU.
Some others will chime in with their results I'm sure.
Mike,
First, you need to provide details of exactly what you're doing and exactly what is the result.
If you follow the instructions in the book exactly as written, you should be fine. A couple of things of which to be aware:
 | This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! |
Good evening Barry and Mike:
I have the 3rd edition, and followed it exactly, and still ran into the 'not found' problem. After some research, I located a USB driver recommended by MTH, located here. I did not find reference to this in the book. If it is there and I missed it, I apologize. This made sense as my Win7 Pro machine didn't install any driver when I plugged in the TIU in a USB port, which is the criteria noted for installing the driver they posted. Once I did that, everything worked and was updated to V5.00 in minutes.
Once you do that, it will assign a USB port to a "COM" number, (in my case, 7) and recognize the TUI as a valid device on the machine. The DCS program will find it as well, as long as discovery is set to 'automatic', under the OPTIONS > SERIAL PORT > AUTO SEARCH FOR TIU.
Nate,
After some research, I located a USB driver recommended by MTH, located here. I did not find reference to this in the book. If it is there and I missed it, I apologize.
No apologies are necessary! 
However, what you were looking for was there, in two places.
On page 136...
If the personal computer does not have an available slot for a PC card or a PCMCIA card slot, then a USB to Serial Adapter may be used. The author has obtained excellent results using an Insignia USB to RS-232 Serial adapter NS-PU99501 purchased for $20. This cable comes with Windows software drivers that should be installed before using the cable for the first time.
...and on page 194
The other method recommended by MTH is for computers that lack a serial COM port and do not have an available slot for a PC card, but do have an available PCMCIA port. This would include most laptop and notebook computers. In this case, the E-Link RoHS PCMCIA card or the SIIG, Inc. Single-Serial PC card should be used. These cards should be available from computer supply stores. If the personal computer does not have an available slot for a PC card or a PCMCIA card slot, then a USB to Serial Adapter may be used. The author has obtained excellent results using an Insignia USB to RS-232 Serial adapter NS-PU99501 purchased for $20. This cable comes with Windows software drivers that should be installed before using the cable for the first time.
| This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! |
Good morning Barry:
Thanks for the kind reply. I did find both of those references previously, but they point only to PCMCIA / PC cards and adapters. I was attempting to use a straight USB cable from the TIU to a USB port on the PC. It appears that Mike is trying this as well, based on his first post, I don't have any of the adapters referenced in hand, nor any PCMCIA / PC card capability in my Win7 desktop. I only have straight USB cables and I wanted to see if they would work, which is what eventually led me to the MTH driver page. I acknowledge that this isn't following the directions exactly as you laid out, and I don;t want to mislead. My curiosity got the best of me (as usual) and I wanted to give it a shot.
Respectfully submitted,
Nate,
Ah, yes, now I see.
It's not often that a version of Windows lacks the correct USB driver for use with a Rev. L TIU, however, it does happen occasionally. It's dependent on the PC's manufacturer and the OEM version of Windows that they pre-install on their PCs.
Guys, thanks for the replies. I eventually gave up last night though.
Barry,
You're right, more information from me would probably help. I guess I was just looking for an immediate "this is what you do" sorry about that. Okay, so this is what I'm doing or I did:
1. Downloaded DCS Consumer Loader Program and DCS Version 5.00 and installed them both.
2. Disconnected everything from the TIU.
3. Connected the USB cable from a USB port on the computer to the USB Type B port on the TIU.
4. Opened the DCS Consumer Loader.
- This is where I start to get confused. In your book (I'm using the 2nd edition) it says the 9-conductor serial cable is required or, for the Rev. L, a USB cable
with the Type B USB on one end. That leads me to believe I can use the latter in place of the serial, correct?
- Next, in the Loader Program, I'm supposed to tell it where to find the TIU by going to Options, but the only choice is for the Serial Port. I'm assuming this
is only for when using the Serial cable, or is the Auto Search supposed to work for both the Serial cable and the USB cable?
Here I get a message saying that it is taking a long time to find the TIU. I get that message repeatedly without the TIU ever being found. Gave up on this
route.
6. Clicked on the 3rd from left TIU icon.
- Here is where I get confused again. The steps do not seem to make sense (at least to me at the moment, I'm sure they will though). From what I
think I understand, the TIU is now powered (5V?) through the USB connection. With that, the instructions/steps get confusing.
1. Close all programs - done.
2. Disconnect all power to TIU inputs - done..... maybe. Does this include the USB if it in fact does supply power?
3. Disconnect TIU track power - done.
4. Connect the 9-pin serial connector - not done, according to the one statement above, having the USB I'm thinking I do not need the Serial connector so
I'm connecting that in this step.
5. Connect the 1/8" cable - done.
6. Apply power to Fxd1 In or Aux - not done, (from my searches on here, I believe I read this doesn't need to be done because the USB supplies power)
7. Clicked START.
Now I get a pop-up saying the TIU needs to be cycled off and on.
Here I'm confused again, how is this completed? So I unplug the USB cable and click OK. Now it says turn it back on, I plug the USB cable back in and
click OK.
This just happens over and over again in a continuous loop.
Here are the cables I am using:
**** I should note too that when I plug the TIU into the computer from the USB cable, the computer says found new hardware and it wants me to open it from a selected list or automatically. Neither of those work for me.
Are you powering the tiu? It needs a power supply independent of the usb to serial adapter.
If you are using Nortons or other such software shut it down. I spent a frustrating night trying to do this but the next night I started fresh and it worked.
Mike, in your first post you mentioned you have a Win XP computer. Did the patch that MTH recommends work on your XP computer? I ask because its not specifically mentioned at the MTH link.
I have never been able to use USB to do updates on my Rev L but had to resort to the old serial port.
Pete
rboatertoo posted:Are you powering the tiu? It needs a power supply independent of the usb to serial adapter.
I tried that too, forgot to mention that (through the AUX port)
If you are using Nortons or other such software shut it down. I spent a frustrating night trying to do this but the next night I started fresh and it worked.
I read that this should be done, but I haven't updated any of that software in years so I didn't even look to see if it was up. I can try that though.
Norton posted:Mike, in your first post you mentioned you have a Win XP computer. Did the patch that MTH recommends work on your XP computer? I ask because its not specifically mentioned at the MTH link.
I'm not sure which patch you are referring to. This one? If so, yes I did that too
mjrodg3n88 posted:Norton posted:Mike, in your first post you mentioned you have a Win XP computer. Did the patch that MTH recommends work on your XP computer? I ask because its not specifically mentioned at the MTH link.
I'm not sure which patch you are referring to. This one? If so, yes I did that too
Thats the one. Good to know. Thank you.
Pete
I use norton's for my firewall, turn off your firewall protection.
Jim,
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'd do that. Guess I'll google it! Unless its just Norton's I'll have to shut off, I can figure that out.
Beware of doing windows updates. I had a laptop with Windows XP, that I used for years to install sound files and upgrade TIU's and remotes. After doing a Windows update it never worked again. I tried everything suggested here on the forum. I think a necessary driver was removed. Tried a system restore to an earlier date and that didn't help. I purchased the laptop because it had the needed serial port and didn't need an adapter. It was super fast too. Lesson learned the hard way.
Dave Zucal posted:Beware of doing windows updates. I had a laptop with Windows XP, that I used for years to install sound files and upgrade TIU's and remotes. After doing a Windows update it never worked again. I tried everything suggested here on the forum. I think a necessary driver was removed. Tried a system restore to an earlier date and that didn't help. I purchased the laptop because it had the needed serial port and didn't need an adapter. It was super fast too. Lesson learned the hard way.
Did that with two 8.1 machines to the free 10 version. While 8.1 was horrible to use, (Phone software on a desk or laptop) after the 10 updates neither recognize anything you plug into them. Going to probably wipe them and install new software.
Updating Windows to a new version it typically the kiss-of-death for the installation. Sure, Microsoft says it's possible, and many people even have success doing it. However, the percentage of people that go down in flames after an upgrade are many. I've tried a number of "updates", and I can only remember one that actually worked as intended without significant issues.
I wish I was to the point where I was worrying about updating Windows, I still haven't even figured out if I'm even doing this right.
The computer I'm using is older, a desktop from about 2007 and I haven't updated Windows on it... ever.
mjrodg3n88 posted:The computer I'm using is older, a desktop from about 2007 and I haven't updated Windows on it... ever.
2007? That must be Vista, UGLY! 
Nothing worse than Vista...... I lost a lot of hair with that operating system.....
If that's the case it's time for a new computer. Windows 10 worked for me.
MIKE, It may be updating automatically.
John and Jim, NOT Vista!! LOL, I would've ran that thing over 1000 times by now if that was the case ! It is Windows XP.
Dave, it could be. I bought my wife a laptop 3 years ago, but the screen has been broken. Ordered a new screen last night and it will be here tomorrow.
With that,
Am I doing this right, guys? Do I need the serial cable as well as the USB cable? If I figure out if I'm doing it right or wrong, I can try with the newer laptop once I fix (or try to fix... never did it before).
The USB cable is the easiest for Rev. L TIU updates, at least IMO. You don't need any serial<->USB adapters, just plug it in. You will need the drivers, but that's normally not an issue.
Okay, that's what I thought, but I wasn't 100% sure after my failure. I'm guessing with what you guys are saying and some of Barry's replies in other threads, its most likely a computer issue. I'm hoping, at least. I know that in addition to the two cables above, I need a phone line cable too, but I have that.
Do I still do the Options -> Locate TIU Automatically in the the Loader Program?
My problem was not shutting Norton or windows firewall down. I read the book and knew I had to shut them down, but being a guy I didn't think it apply to me!! LOL .
Windows firewall can be found by going to settings and click on the windows firewall.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Updating Windows to a new version it typically the kiss-of-death for the installation. Sure, Microsoft says it's possible, and many people even have success doing it. However, the percentage of people that go down in flames after an upgrade are many. I've tried a number of "updates", and I can only remember one that actually worked as intended without significant issues.
John,
Whenever they were going from 8 to 10, I had friends get a new laptop at Best Buy, did the free upgrade and it messed up, they got another and it did the same thing. when they took that one back the purchased a model with 10 already installed. Not a Best Buy issue. Maybe if Gates and Microsoft each had to return $300 to every user when an update failed he and the company would care more!
I'm probable going to get raked over the coals for this comment...
Vista really wasn't that bad. The initial release had some problems especially with older hardware and a handful of software. Many of us didn't want to give up that scanner we bought in 1993 which was supported well through windows XP and now we were force to buy some modern equipment. This is why Windows 7 came with XP mode. All things considered, Vista SP1 came out shortly after the initial release and fixed the many reliability problems Vista started out with.
My bone is with Micro$oft who (still) publishes ridiculously under-rated minimum system requirements. These requirements are what Vista, 7, 8 & 10 still share in common! Could you image running a Windows 10 on a computer made 10 or 15 years ago? According to Micro$oft you can! That's the trap we fell into in 2007, unless you bought a brand new top of the line computer, your Vista experience was horrible. Fast forward to 2009, Windows 7 is out, Quad core processors are common and Windows 7 runs great... Vista would to if you had the same hardware.
I just retired 15 Vista workstations last month and only because Micro$oft will no longer support Vista after April 14 of this year. These machines were purchased in 2009 and initially shipped with XP. I wiped them, and clean installed Vista in 2013 to save cost on buying new Windows 7 computers. They ran great, and didn't have any complaints with them. Many users didn't even know they were Vista until I removed them.
My only complaints with Vista are slow start ups and the memory management could be a bit better. Otherwise, I'll take the Vista User Interface over windows 8 or 10 any day.
Just my two cents.
H1000
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but IMO, Vista was a loser. Big issue with Vista? LOUSY DEVICE DRIVER SUPPORT! Windows 7 hit the sweet spot, though it was in significant part based on Vista with improvements. Device driver support was worlds with Win7 than with Vista. I downgraded Vista to Win2000 until Windows 7 came out. Windows 8 was a loser, the interface was a colossal mistake! Windows 10 is fine IMO, and I'm moving all our machines to Win-10 ASAP.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but IMO, Vista was a loser. Big issue with Vista? LOUSY DEVICE DRIVER SUPPORT! Windows 7 hit the sweet spot, though it was in significant part based on Vista with improvements. Device driver support was worlds with Win7 than with Vista. I downgraded Vista to Win2000 until Windows 7 came out. Windows 8 was a loser, the interface was a colossal mistake! Windows 10 is fine IMO, and I'm moving all our machines to Win-10 ASAP.
Hi Gunner, You hitting the point everyone established in 2008 with the initial release. By the time MS fixed the problems with Vista, Windows 7 was the big news and Vista left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth, it was deemed a lemon.
I don't think that Vista or MS can be blamed for the lousy driver support. It was up to all of the OEMs to provide drivers for this (at the time) new os. Many of them decided that it wasn't worth the expense to invest R&D into products that were already sold and the OEM stood no chance of making an money on developing new drivers. Building a new driver was lost money, so many of them ported the drivers from XP and that is were the lousy driver support comes from. By the time 7 rolled around, MS cracked down on that and OEMs either decided not to support older hardware or spend the money and develop a working driver. This happen about the same time Vista SP1 was released. Many of the Vista, 7 & 8 drivers are interchangeable between each other and often offered together as the same driver that support all three OS's.
Technically MS is still on Version 6 of their latest OS:
Windows 2000 - Version 5.0
Windows XP - Version 5.1
Vista - Version 6.0
Win 7 - Version 6.1
Win 8 - Version 6.2
Win 8.1 - Version 6.3
Win 10 - Version 6.4 (early betas) & later jumped to 10.0 before public release
They tried really hard with Vista (even keeping the old PROGMAN.EXE from Windows 3.11) but in the end Vista took the brunt for OEMs not wanting to update their hardware driver library's. As I was once told by and MS software engineer, Windows 10 is still built much of the same code base used in Vista.
FWIW, I personally skipped XP & Vista and jump to 7 in 2010 When 2000 reached EOL. XP was riddled with problems too which didn't really get resolved until SP2 rolled out. Windows 7 is a rock solid OS and (IMO) nearly difficult to improve upon... not sure what I'll do in 2020 when it reaches EOL.
H1000
BTW, I always like talking with you Gunner, hearing your opinions and reading about your contributions to the hobby!
The OEM's not providing the drivers certainly were a major factor, I still blame MS for not holding their feet to the fire right up front. When Vista came out, I had a test machine that I ran it on for several years, but it never did get to the point that I had sufficient driver support to make it my working machine. When Windows 7 came out, all of us called it a working version of Vista.
Windows 7 came along, and I jumped in with both feet. 
FWIW, I was a Microsoft MVP for eight years, 2004-2011, and lived through all the versions from XP through early Windows 8, even made the Redmond trip a couple of times to the MVP Conferences.
Shouldn't the MTH updating/etc software work with a PC running WIN7? Are "special" drivers needed to be loaded from someplace?
Sure, I use it on Win7 and Win10 with no issues.
This is almost to a point where its is comical now.
I mean, really???? I'm using a newer laptop, downloaded the DCS Loader, BUT... "Critical Error, no Serial Port Detected."
Interesting, since you are supposedly able to use a USB.
Any ideas?
On the new computer you are now using, did you download and install the recommended drivers from the MTH website?
Also, I believe the USB is a serial device, Universal Serial Bus. Maybe some of the confusion? I updated mine with the USB cable, but it's been so long I can't remember what all I had to select?
That was definitely the issue. Oops, I'm an idiot. I just get so frustrated with computer stuff. After I downloaded the drivers, I had to restart the computer and bingo!!
Thanks RTR.
Now, I have to go get a phone cord because the one I have is from the line-in to base-in instead of base to handset and is too big.
Guess I should know better than to try to use the desktop I was initially using.
Hey, Glad you finally got it going! I think everyone has problems with computers once in a while.
Just curious, did it find the TIU automatically after the MTH website driver install? That's the part I can't remember?
Yes, well after I selected Options -> Search for TIU
It was quick too. I think my older computer should find a new place in the trash.
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