@Paul Finn posted:The K-Line 21" Superliners look like Phase IV to me? Can someone confirm before I order a GGD transition car?
I'm hoping the Kline and GGD won't look that noticeably different.
Thanks
The K Line cars are Phase IV, but there aren't transition sleepers in this GGD offering as Scott is doing Superliner Is right now and the transition cars are IIs.
@Will Ebbert posted:The K Line cars are Phase IV, but there aren't transition sleepers in this GGD offering as Scott is doing Superliner Is right now and the transition cars are IIs.
To add to this, the K-Line cars are Superliner IIs and they did make a transition car. The biggest challenge is finding them at a price that is remotely competitive. The last one to sell on that auction site went for more than the cost of a new GGD car. K-Line offered transition coach, coach, diner, and sleeper configurations for their Superliner IIs. The coaches come up most commonly and are least expensive. The other cars regularly sell for over $350 each. For that price I can be patient and wait for GGD Superliner IIs.
In addition to that, the finishing on the K-Line seems off. It doesn't look like stainless steel. It's certainly not at the level of quality from GGD...even if the price points are the same.
Without seeing what GGD has in store, I'd speculated that there'd be a noticable difference between GGD's cars and K Line's cars and would stick out quite noticably.
The lack of a lounge car from K Line is a bigger issue too. I'm very excited for the GGD versions with 9 cars ordered. When they offer the Superliner IIs I'll probably order 7 of them for two complete trains of mixed equipment.
I also agree that the finish on the K Line cars isn't very impressive but I expected to repaint mine anyway into phase VI. Here's a comparison of the two manufacturers silver. GGD has a warmer hue to it that picks up light better in my opinion. 
@P42Amtrak83 posted:In addition to that, the finishing on the K-Line seems off. It doesn't look like stainless steel. It's certainly not at the level of quality from GGD...even if the price points are the same.
Without seeing what GGD has in store, I'd speculated that there'd be a noticable difference between GGD's cars and K Line's cars and would stick out quite noticably.
I don't disagree at all. The GGD cars will be a generational improvement over the K-Line ones.
I am having a hard time mating GGD Amfleets to MTH coaches; the latter seem but toys by comparison. Even the Atlas Horizons don't quite compare, though they are of much closer quality.
I guess I am a GGD snob now; the Amfleets look fabulous with the Atlas AEM7s. Now let's do the slumber coaches and then baggage cars after that.
@Pantenary posted:I am having a hard time mating GGD Amfleets to MTH coaches; the latter seem but toys by comparison. Even the Atlas Horizons don't quite compare, though they are of much closer quality.
I guess I am a GGD snob now; the Amfleets look fabulous with the Atlas AEM7s. Now let's do the slumber coaches and then baggage cars after that.
Speaking of Slumbercoaches, how are they reserving? I can't get an answer from Scott which can equate to low reservations currently.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:Speaking of Slumbercoaches, how are they reserving? I can't get an answer from Scott which can equate to low reservations currently.
Assuming the “ Slumbers” are still at a small reservation number, it would sure be nice to see the Slumber coaches tacked onto the Olympian production run for a greater combined numbers efficiency.
@GG1 4877 posted:Exclusive here. You won't see this from Atlas's Railking Scale line.
It will be up on the website by the end of the weekend along with a few other P32 offerings.
CCAL doesn't have the capital for an additional locomotive (I ordered 3 -that's alotta $$$), but I will definitely amend my current reservation once this is available. I'm kicking that Phase V model off in favor of this much-needed Empire Service model. This is a big deal for me.
I'm currently using plain ol' Phase V P42's by MTH. Although I look forward to the GGD models, I have to defend the Atlas/MTH P42's. The last few runs are not as bad as people have commented here. No, they aren't up to GGD standards, but the most recent ones aren't "railking at the premier price."
There are actually 3 different MTH Premier P42's. The PS3 models are pretty great. The earlier ones from 1998 are pretty bad. The PS2 versions are fine. All are better than those goofy Williams/Bachman models.
I'll make a case for Williams too. For now, it's the only P40 out there. I have one to pull my Three Rivers train for a while and then I switch to my goofy E60.
What are the external differences between a P40 and a P42?
@Will Ebbert posted:What are the external differences between a P40 and a P42?
The only external differences are with Phase III.
The Phase III P40DCs had two strobe lights and an emergency blinker above the cab. The rear of the locomotive had a window next to the door.
The P40s also had the "fade away" stripe as well as black trim around the front windows. The gap between those windows was also painted black.
The physical differences were eliminated during their first maintenance cycle...most received Phase IV paint during the overhaul.
In subsequent schemes, the only visible differences are thicker window gaskets around the front windshields.
@P42Amtrak83 posted:The only external differences are with Phase III.
The Phase III P40DCs had two strobe lights and an emergency blinker above the cab. The rear of the locomotive had a window next to the door.
The P40s also had the "fade away" stripe as well as black trim around the front windows. The gap between those windows was also painted black.
The physical differences were eliminated during their first maintenance cycle...most received Phase IV paint during the overhaul.
In subsequent schemes, the only visible differences are thicker window gaskets around the front windshields.
One of my "when I get around to it" projects is to cut out the recesses molded into the Williams model and install real "eyebrow" strobes.
Just sayin'
For those who haven't seen, Scott just sent out an email saying that reservations for the P42s have been so good he will be able to lower the price by $120 per unit! Thanks Scott and all who have reserved!
Time to add another one to the order 
@Will Ebbert posted:For those who haven't seen, Scott just sent out an email saying that reservations for the P42s have been so good he will be able to lower the price by $120 per unit! Thanks Scott and all who have reserved!
Absolutely AWESOME !!! 👍👍👍👍 And that might stir even more reservations !!!! 😜
I know it was covered but I'm unclear on the Transition car that's now available:
Is this a "fantasy" Superliner I Transition Car- basically taking a Superliner II transition car and imposing it on the superliner I? Is this like an el-Capitan step-down?
I know Scott has said that Superliner IIs are going to be produced and there will be a transition car. I already have a 21" Superliner Sleeper(K-line) and an 18" Transition(K-line) but would like to replace that with a prototypical transition and fill out my Superliner consist with a combo of Super Is and Super IIs.
Help/assistance/clarification would be greatly appreciated!!!
I believe before the arrival of the Superliner IIs in real life, the old Hi Level transition cars were used and that is what is being modeled, so it is prototypical for early trains.
@Will Ebbert posted:I believe before the arrival of the Superliner IIs in real life, the old Hi Level transition cars were used and that is what is being modeled, so it is prototypical for early trains.
This is correct. Several El Capitan cars were upgraded to HEP and run with Superliners prior to the introduction of the Superliner II cars. This included coaches, lounge cars, diners, and coaches that were converted to coach / dorm transition cars. The single level El Capitan dorm with the streamlined roof profile that matched the Budd El Cap cars was retired with the introduction of the Superliner fleet.
Former El Cap coach / dorms had a few configurations. One, which GGD is offering had the crew beds on the lower level of the car. The other configuration utilized the front half of the transition coach as the dormitory space, while the rear half of the upper level had coach seats.
When I rode the Southwest Chief in the late 80's and early 90's the train always had a former El Cap transition dorm behind the baggage car and ocassionally had former El Cap coach, lounge, or diner in the mix with the Superliner I cars.
Awesome! Thanks @Will Ebbert and @GG1 4877 !
You guys answered my questions, but I should've clarified what I meant by prototypical a bit more and been more straight to the point:
1.) Will this transition car be the similar outwardly to the one previously produced by GGD as stated in this 2015 ad ? Or look like the ones after question 2?(with the exception of the paint schemes)
2.) The Hi-level's were slightly but noticeably shorter in height than Superliners, will the GGD transition car reflect that height as shown in pictures below?
Transition Hi-level coach/dorm with HEP in the middle, Superliner on the right(Nov. 1981)- from Hebner's
Better pic-Superliner 1 on left(height difference), Hi-Level 39901 coach dorm in center, single level heritage on the right(year unknown.) from Hebner's
The one below now in excursion service but has the paint scheme that would've matched with the single level baggage dorm(from Michigansteamtrain.com)
Since we have been discussing the new Atlas F40PH's. Now that Lionel has reissued the same but with the fuel tank placement towards the rear, can this fuel tank placement still be seen on long distance trains of the east and west throughout the 80's and early 90's in Phase III Paint? I like the proportions of the Lionel F40PH better than the Atlas versions. But the New Atlas ones do have the forward fuel tank. I am anxiously awaiting my GGD 3/4 Amtrak Brass Dome car. And will add this into the new Lionel Heritage set with finally a smooth sided coach. Will interchange this with the Lionel F40PH's and the SDP40Fs from 3rd Rail when it is eventually offered for reservations.
@StevefromPA posted:Awesome! Thanks @Will Ebbert and @GG1 4877 !
You guys answered my questions, but I should've clarified what I meant by prototypical a bit more and been more straight to the point:
1.) Will this transition car be the similar outwardly to the one previously produced by GGD as stated in this 2015 ad ? Or look like the ones after question 2?(with the exception of the paint schemes)
2.) The Hi-level's were slightly but noticeably shorter in height than Superliners, will the GGD transition car reflect that height as shown in pictures below?
Transition Hi-level coach/dorm with HEP in the middle, Superliner on the right(Nov. 1981)- from Hebner's
Better pic-Superliner 1 on left(height difference), Hi-Level 39901 coach dorm in center, single level heritage on the right(year unknown.) from Hebner's
The one below now in excursion service but has the paint scheme that would've matched with the single level baggage dorm(from Michigansteamtrain.com)
Somehow, I missed this post. As your photos show, there are several variations on the baggage dorm cars rebuilt from former El Capitan cars. Right now, there have been no decisions on which version will be done, but once the project becomes closer to actual design there will be more information available. If I were to hazard a guess, and this is a guess only, the actual car will be a coach-dorm where the dormitory section is on the lower level as opposed to the bottom photo where the there is a half coach section on the upper level and the dorm section on the upper level in the forward half of the car.
@Mike W. posted:Since we have been discussing the new Atlas F40PH's. Now that Lionel has reissued the same but with the fuel tank placement towards the rear, can this fuel tank placement still be seen on long distance trains of the east and west throughout the 80's and early 90's in Phase III Paint? I like the proportions of the Lionel F40PH better than the Atlas versions. But the New Atlas ones do have the forward fuel tank. I am anxiously awaiting my GGD 3/4 Amtrak Brass Dome car. And will add this into the new Lionel Heritage set with finally a smooth sided coach. Will interchange this with the Lionel F40PH's and the SDP40Fs from 3rd Rail when it is eventually offered for reservations.
Yes, several of the "phase 1" F40PHs lasted into the '90s. By phase 1, I mean the first order of F40PHs, not their paint scheme. Phase 1 had the aft tanks. Phase 1 units were numbered in the low 200s and I have seen photos of them pulling Amtrak, MBTA, and MetroNorth trains wearing their pretty phase III outfits. Here is a link to one pulling the pre-Superliner Capitol Limited.
Lionel's Legacy Amtrak #206
@CharmCityAirLine posted:One of my "when I get around to it" projects is to cut out the recesses molded into the Williams model and install real "eyebrow" strobes.
I can recommend the Circuitron FLA Amtrak strobe kit; it's super easy to install and looks great! The videos don't grasp the initial intensity that you see in person.
Thanks!
- Mario
The latest email from Scott stated the Amtrak 3/4 dome did not arrive with this latest container but will be shipped by air from the orient this month.
Yeah I am looking forward to the Amtrak 3/4 Dome. I wish GGD would post a pic of the real product.
Sadly, I missed on the first run of GGD Amfleets and Viewliners. For the most part, by the time I found the "remaining stock", most of what I would've wanted was gone. Except for this....
My first GGD item- totally worth it!! Phase VI Amfleet Diner...Can't wait to pair it with something besides Phase 3 Horizons, 2 Phase IV Superliners(the transition is only 18") and/or K-line Heritage cars(Phase VI just doesn't look great with it...)
Also, on the subject of dome cars, while not nearly as cool as the 3/4 dome pics I've seen- picked up this K-Line Heritage
Just thought I'd share. Thanks Scott Mann and everyone at 3rd Rail/GGD!!!
I had my eye on that food service car to add to my fleet. Thank you for taking it out of inventory so I wasn't tempted further. 
I must have missed it but I didn't realize GGD offered the Amtrak 3/4 dome. I'd love to add that to my collection of dome cars.
As far as the GGD Superliners, I have some questions about the Sightseer Lounge phase III paint scheme. There were 2 styles on this car. The original phase 3 Sightseer paint had the 3 stripes angle up and follow the window line and drop back down at the other end of the car. Later some Sightseer cars would be painted with the phase III stripes running straight across the car just like the rest of the consist. I believe the change happened later as cars needed repainted. I prefer that the models have the stripes that bump up to follow the window line. Wondering which GGD plans to produce.
@VistaDomeScott posted:As far as the GGD Superliners, I have some questions about the Sightseer Lounge phase III paint scheme. There were 2 styles on this car. The original phase 3 Sightseer paint had the 3 stripes angle up and follow the window line and drop back down at the other end of the car. Later some Sightseer cars would be painted with the phase III stripes running straight across the car just like the rest of the consist. I believe the change happened later as cars needed repainted. I prefer that the models have the stripes that bump up to follow the window line. Wondering which GGD plans to produce.
Whatever one(s) get sufficient reservations. OBTW, if you don't know then Scott doesn't know either. This project is far enough down the line that Jonathan has not started the artwork yet and he will notice the differences and ask for advise.
@rdunniii posted:Whatever one(s) get sufficient reservations. OBTW, if you don't know then Scott doesn't know either. This project is far enough down the line that Jonathan has not started the artwork yet and he will notice the differences and ask for advise.
Only putting the matter out here for conversation and future planning and discussion. Lots of cash outlay with these if I maintain my order. I prefer to get ideas or issues into the discussion ahead of the curve.
Most likely the phase III painted cars will be in their original variation as I have the Microscale decal set for the Sightseer Lounge.
The project is still out a little bit though. No design has started.
@GG1 4877 posted:Most likely the phase III painted cars will be in their original variation as I have the Microscale decal set for the Sightseer Lounge.
The project is still out a little bit though. No design has started.
SUPER news! Thanks. A bit out is ok.. more time to save funds.
@GG1 4877 posted:Most likely the phase III painted cars will be in their original variation as I have the Microscale decal set for the Sightseer Lounge.
The project is still out a little bit though. No design has started.
Jonathan, are the Superliners reserving well enough that I can quit hunting down overpriced K-Line ones?
@Will Ebbert posted:Jonathan, are the Superliners reserving well enough that I can quit hunting down overpriced K-Line ones?
That is a question for Scott as I stay focused on the model side.
You have that right on the K-Line ones! I stopped buying after my 3rd coach.
Judging by the Amfleet Is and Viewliners I can't see Scott not doing the Amfleet IIs and Superliners. There is inflation, supply chain and the effect the Ukraine will have on our dealings with China. I don't envy Scott's position at all.
@VGN64 posted:Judging by the Amfleet Is and Viewliners I can't see Scott not doing the Amfleet IIs and Superliners. There is inflation, supply chain and the effect the Ukraine will have on our dealings with China. I don't envy Scott's position at all.
Never say never. The supply chain challenges and inflation will eventually resolve themselves as they always do. When it comes to manufacturing overseas, business is business. The mighty greenback speaks every language. (....well except for one that does not need mentioning on a train forum...)
Based on other projects currently in design and / or production I fully believe we will see these products. Especially true considering design and manufacturing is a multi-year process and economic / geopolitical issues will always be different between then and now.
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