Yay P42s !!!!!!!!!!
Viewliner-Amfleet Run2, and Superliners too !!! Wow !!! Absolutely awesome day with the news of these offerings !!!
Thanks Scott
@sdmann posted:Transition cars are Superliner IIs, we are doing Superliner Is this round. IIs in the future.
Sound reasonable?
Regarding Dummy Diesels, we will never do them as they cost almost as much to make and very hard to sell if left over. FL9s taught us a big lesson.
Regarding DCS: If an MTH Licensed Repair / Dealer wants to offer some of these post production, converted to DCS, that would be the way to get that done. There are few dealers that are interested in doing that.
Regarding Further Schemes: We consider them when we see enough orders in general. E-60s showed promise on the forum regarding enthusiasm, but only resulted in 60 reservation after 1 year on the reservation page. Amtrak (Matt) said, if your not going to make it, take it down, so we did.
Nice to get a bit more clarification on the E-60's. I actually didn't realize that the reservations were up for a year, so I understand why they got canned; hopefully the project can be started up again in the future.
Even though I have a bunch of dummies in my train collection (being a traditional-sized collector, they come naturally 
), I actually like that you guys just make powered units and that's that. IMHO I wish that any sets of diesels can come with all powered locomotives, at least as an option. I want my locomotives to actually help in pulling stuff, and not just get dragged around for appearance purposes only. And this isn't a jab at anyone that wants dummies, just putting in my $.02. Also Scott, do your locomotives still have the switch on the bottom that allows you to change the direction in which the locomotive goes when you start it up on conventional control?
And with all that out of the way, I actually did not expect to see more Amtrak stuff being up for reservation so soon, at least not until next year. I'm honestly very shocked, and also afraid for my finances, haha. I'm also glad to hear you sold out of the Amfleets too 
The SDP40F is a must have. Maybe 2 of them. Perhaps my favorite Amtrak locomotive.
For the P42’s... it would be nice to have both snowplow and non snowplow pilots available at least for scale pilots!
Pics of P42s now posted on 3rd Rail web page !!!! Yay !!!! Nice Choices !!!!!
Folks,
I've posted unreserved left over Amfleet / Viewliners on the following page:
http://www.goldengatedepot.com/reacar-buy.html
First come first serve.
Remaining stand-by orders will be applied to the 2nd run.
R
@sdmann posted:Folks,
I've posted unreserved left over Amfleet / Viewliners on the following page:
http://www.goldengatedepot.com/reacar-buy.html
First come first serve.
Remaining stand-by orders will be applied to the 2nd run.
R
Email sent on Amfleet PH2!
Thank you Scott......Your leftover View Liner II Baggage car came today in perfect condition. It goes very well with my K-Line huge Superliners.
Now I'm waiting for your Amtrak P42's
Clem
Just wanted to point out that while Atlas O recently announced P42s, the price is so high that to me it makes the 3rd Rail version a no brainer. Only $280 more for fixed pilots, scale trucks, accurate details, etc.
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@Will Ebbert posted:Just wanted to point out that while Atlas O recently announced P42s, the price is so high that to me it makes the 3rd Rail version a no brainer. Only $280 more for fixed pilots, scale trucks, accurate details,
Not only that, I'm not sure what Atlas was thinking with the "matching" Amfleets. You can't get them in Phase VI which would make it prototypical, even for 18" cars.
I don't want to hijack this thread for an Atlas product, but the prospect of running some of these fantasy scheme Amfleets with the GGD Genesis is intriguing to me.
Will rightly points out that Atlas' price point on their model is precipitously close to the GGD price point; indeed, the only reason I would even consider the Atlas model, really, is for PS3 compatibility out of the box.
But those fantasy schemes are intriguing to me, and if I'm not mistaken that Phase V scheme is actually very, very close to the Acela Regional scheme that Amtrak very briefly ran in the early 2000's. I may actually get a set of those Amfleets for the GGD Genesis to pull.
Rafi
@Rafi posted:I don't want to hijack this thread for an Atlas product, but the prospect of running some of these fantasy scheme Amfleets with the GGD Genesis is intriguing to me.
Will rightly points out that Atlas' price point on their model is precipitously close to the GGD price point; indeed, the only reason I would even consider the Atlas model, really, is for PS3 compatibility out of the box.
But those fantasy schemes are intriguing to me, and if I'm not mistaken that Phase V scheme is actually very, very close to the Acela Regional scheme that Amtrak very briefly ran in the early 2000's. I may actually get a set of those Amfleets for the GGD Genesis to pull.
Rafi
The offering in Phase V is quite interesting! I always thought the splotch scheme was neat. I bought a run of the Nicholas Smith MTH ones maybe a year or two back. They're quite colorful.
The PS3 inside the Atlas units are a big draw, and I wish that was an option with the ones from GGD which will most certainly be nicer in every way.
I might be doing the opposite of you. I have a collection of the MTH P42s and I cannot wait to put in a reservation for the GGD Superliner Is once more things come to light (mainly if Superliner IIs will follow soon after)
Scott has already said Superliner IIs will follow the Is. Go ahead and put in an order. We had little info on the Viewliners and those were a grand slam, I fully expect the same here.
@P42Amtrak83 posted:The offering in Phase V is quite interesting! I always thought the splotch scheme was neat. I bought a run of the Nicholas Smith MTH ones maybe a year or two back. They're quite colorful.
The PS3 inside the Atlas units are a big draw, and I wish that was an option with the ones from GGD which will most certainly be nicer in every way.
I might be doing the opposite of you. I have a collection of the MTH P42s and I cannot wait to put in a reservation for the GGD Superliner Is once more things come to light (mainly if Superliner IIs will follow soon after)
I'm actually in a similar conundrum with the engines. I have two MTH DCS premier P42s (Phase IV and V) that I have every intention of keeping, and now I'm faced with a choice: get GGD P42s to augment that fleet and if I run doubleheads, it could look...weird. Or...do I go with Atlas' new stuff and rest assured that things will look consistent, but know in the back of my head that I could have had much better-looking, more realistic engines. The Superliners are so enticing, too, as they've always been on my "one day" wish list.
In a perfect world, money would be no object and I'd just outfit my whole fleet with the GGD stuff and sell off my old MTH stuff, but the world ain't perfect. <sigh>
On the flip side, how fortunate we are that we have Lionel, Atlas and GGD putting out some fantastic looking Amtrak equipment in O scale! If someone announces a Charger or Sprinter, I'll probably need to be committed.
Rafi
@Rafi posted:I'm actually in a similar conundrum with the engines. I have two MTH DCS premier P42s (Phase IV and V) that I have every intention of keeping, and now I'm faced with a choice: get GGD P42s to augment that fleet and if I run doubleheads, it could look...weird. Or...do I go with Atlas' new stuff and rest assured that things will look consistent, but know in the back of my head that I could have had much better-looking, more realistic engines. The Superliners are so enticing, too, as they've always been on my "one day" wish list.
In a perfect world, money would be no object and I'd just outfit my whole fleet with the GGD stuff and sell off my old MTH stuff, but the world ain't perfect. <sigh>
On the flip side, how fortunate we are that we have Lionel, Atlas and GGD putting out some fantastic looking Amtrak equipment in O scale! If someone announces a Charger or Sprinter, I'll probably need to be committed.
Rafi
I hear you completely!
You're right, you'd certainly would need two of the same brand P42s for it to look right. I'm a bit attached to the sounds of the Protosound system.
I've got a bunch of MTH P42s. I had a 50th anniversary unit custom painted just before the 3rd Rail announcement. I think I had it running a week before the announcement. I got it to go with my Viewliners.
I'm with you, in a perfect world, I'd have all GGD stuff haha. But reality is, I can't swing it...as much as I want to.
I suppose I have a decision between the MTH engines I have with a nice consist of 21" cars or two amazing P42s with a consist of 18" cars I have already.
I'll take out a loan if GGD comes out with next-gen motive power. Haha
Well the question regarding the P42 quanundrum is
1] how much more detail is one gonna get on a GGD P42 compared to the MTH/Atlas O P42 with a msrp difference of $280.00 per unit.
A previous comparison would be Sunset vs. MTH premier ALCo PA-1's. Bodywise there was no difference that really stood out. It was the details such as simulated sealed beam headlight [ss] vs. Plastic lense with 3mm led insert [mth]. Trainline and air hose details on the pilot [ss]
And the big one. No swinging pilot and gap for Sunset models
2] the GGD will be using the ERR reverse and Railsounds GE Dash 9 sound file. Will the Atlas O units have DCS?
What's the delivery date for Atlas O units as their current locomotive delivery history for the past decade has been sketchy at best.
Sunset/GGD track record is once reservations close, 6-10 months til delivery.
@P42Amtrak83 posted:I hear you completely!
You're right, you'd certainly would need two of the same brand P42s for it to look right. I'm a bit attached to the sounds of the Protosound system.
I'm with you, in a perfect world, I'd have all GGD stuff haha. But reality is, I can't swing it...as much as I want to.
I suppose I have a decision between the MTH engines I have with a nice consist of 21" cars or two amazing P42s with a consist of 18" cars I have already.
I'll take out a loan if GGD comes out with next-gen motive power. Haha
In regards to GGD vs MTH superliners is there really is NO COMPARISON!
For the price point, one really gets their moneys worth with as much details on a $350.00/GGD car than anything on the market! From the correct window configuration to the correct trucks for that passenger car and 10 figures per car included as well!
The question one really has to ask is can you run 21"passenger cars that really need 072 or larger diameter curves? If you can. Than go for the GGD stuff if you love scale. You will not look back once you do!
Personally a distant second to GGD superliners would be the K-line21" cars followed by the Lionel 18" Amtrak superliner sets painted only in 2 flavors- phase II and phase IV.
@Will Ebbert posted:Just wanted to point out that while Atlas O recently announced P42s, the price is so high that to me it makes the 3rd Rail version a no brainer. Only $280 more for fixed pilots, scale trucks, accurate details, etc.
Atlas is offering 2-rail models. So I am guessing that these would have fixed pilots and the announcement mentions Proto 3-2 conversion capable. Also Forum Sponsors are offering a preorder price around $570. So you could get something good enough for less than what the Sunset models cost.
These are just my opinion,
Naveen Rajan
The proportions still never seemed right to me. Plus MTH never did a 2 rail version so it's possible it won't be a fixed pilot, just different electronics. I'll stick with what I know will be spot on.
@Will Ebbert posted:The proportions still never seemed right to me. Plus MTH never did a 2 rail version so it's possible it won't be a fixed pilot, just different electronics. I'll stick with what I know will be spot on.
Atlas O themselves posted in another thread that they're tooling a fixed pilot for it.
I am obviously biased, but the MTH tooling is at best Railking Scale quality having been introduced in 1998. I'll be happy to replace my MTH one with a better quality model.
@GG1 4877 posted:I am obviously biased, but the MTH tooling is at best Railking Scale quality having been introduced in 1998. I'll be happy to replace my MTH one with a better quality model.
Whole heartedly Agree !!! I’ve never purchased a MTH P42 as they just are not very well done !!! Swinging pilot with huge gap to body, lobster claw, and sits WAY too high. 🤭😑😵💫😖☹️I don’t know about the P42 trucks, but Many MTH trucks have Never been upgraded from crude Simple moldings. Definitely Rail King quality on a premier priced product. Whenever 3rd rail offers my roads, I sell my old MTH models and put what $ I get into the Serious 3rail model Upgrade !!!!!
Cheers
Will the various GGD Amtrak coaches including the heritage 3/4 dome brass car in the works look properly scaled with the MTH F40PH Tooling (now from Atlas O)? Note: I consider any Amtrak car that is a rebuild obtained from a pre-1971 operator to be Heritage Equipment. That is exactly how Amtrak branded it in their catalogs back then. "Heritage Fleet" "Amfleet" etc.
Second, when will the GGD Amtrak (and other) Slumber coaches be available?
That F40PH is scale just like the GGD equipment but the Lionel version has a little better details and much more realistic pilots.
I know there was talk of Amfleet IIs a while back. What would be the chances that they will be offered with another run of Amfleet Is?
If I were to build a Pennsylvanian, I'd need two Amfleet Is and four Amfleet IIs.
Should I reserve the two Amfleet Is now and bank on the Amfleet IIs being available in the future...or assume I can reserve the IIs and the Is at the same time?
@P42Amtrak83 posted:I know there was talk of Amfleet IIs a while back. What would be the chances that they will be offered with another run of Amfleet Is?
If I were to build a Pennsylvanian, I'd need two Amfleet Is and four Amfleet IIs.
Should I reserve the two Amfleet Is now and bank on the Amfleet IIs being available in the future...or assume I can reserve the IIs and the Is at the same time?
I highly doubt that a run of Amfleet II's will be produced with the second run of Amfleet I's and Viewliner II's. There's not too much [farther than 3ft rule] to distinguish between Amfleet I and Amfleet II and a lot of people may get confused. Best to leave Amfleet I and Amfleet II runs separate.
I could see a run of Amfleet II's coinside with either Superliner II or Viewliner I's though.
The MTH F40PH represents the early configuration of F40PHs or sometimes referred to as a phase I F40PH (not to be confused with Amtrak paint phasing). I have six of which three are Amtrak. My complaint about the model is similar to my complaint about their Genesis. The tooling is from the late 90's. As a result there are many deficiencies on the model. The pilot steps are incorrect, it rides high, and the paint colors are too dark. One would assume that Atlas will get the colors correct as their Amtrak offerings have been closer to correct colors.
I also have three K-Line F40PHs and they represent the later or phase II F40PH configuration. The roof fans are shallower, sit in a a well, and there are some other minor variations. K-Line got the front pilot steps correct and the colors are much better. The sound on the early K-line units is generic rail sounds but if I cared that much about sound, I could upgrade. The other downside on the K-Line units is the electro coupler sticks way out on the nose. I plan on taking them off mine at some point and either putting in shorter manual couplers or Kadees. The Lionel Legacy version closely aligns with the K-Line model.
As for GGD Amfleet II's the plan is to offer them at a later date after second run Amfleet I, Viewliner II, and Superline I cars have been manufactured and delivered. There are plans to to do them however as well as plans to offer the Viewliner I sleepers as single car offerings at some point in the future.
@GG1 4877 posted:The MTH F40PH represents the early configuration of F40PHs or sometimes referred to as a phase I F40PH (not to be confused with Amtrak paint phasing). I have six of which three are Amtrak. My complaint about the model is similar to my complaint about their Genesis. The tooling is from the late 90's. As a result there are many deficiencies on the model. The pilot steps are incorrect, it rides high, and the paint colors are too dark. One would assume that Atlas will get the colors correct as their Amtrak offerings have been closer to correct colors.
I also have three K-Line F40PHs and they represent the later or phase II F40PH configuration. The roof fans are shallower, sit in a a well, and there are some other minor variations. K-Line got the front pilot steps correct and the colors are much better. The sound on the early K-line units is generic rail sounds but if I cared that much about sound, I could upgrade. The other downside on the K-Line units is the electro coupler sticks way out on the nose. I plan on taking them off mine at some point and either putting in shorter manual couplers or Kadees. The Lionel Legacy version closely aligns with the K-Line model.
As for GGD Amfleet II's the plan is to offer them at a later date after second run Amfleet I, Viewliner II, and Superline I cars have been manufactured and delivered. There are plans to to do them however as well as plans to offer the Viewliner I sleepers as single car offerings at some point in the future.
The MTH F40PH was retooled in 2006 I believe. The F40 from the 90s didn't have ditch lights or strobes to my knowledge. Of course, the retooled version was only released with ditch lights..even when inappropriate.
The Proto 3 models were released with the correct colors (Except Phase IV) after Amtrak released its livery guide publicly. The Phase III variant I have from the late 2010s is significantly nicer than the previous ones I have. The swinging pilot is certainly less pronounced than MTH's P42 that's for sure.
I should mention, for a time, Amtrak was quite inconsistent with their colors. One of the last NPCU converted F40PHs had Amtrak Deep Blue as the bottom stripe:
https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=259848
I'm not sure if this caused confusion with MTH, but seeing that their R&D department was based out of Michigan, it's possible they used this particular NPCU based out of Michigan to match the paint. It certainly didn't help that the Phase III Genesis and B32-8WH used Deep Blue as opposed to the blue found on everything else.
MTH seemed to struggle with Phase II and III until 2013 or so.
Thanks for the info Jonathan! Really looking forward to ask these GGD Amtrak offerings and as excited as I am for each, my wallet will definitely appreciate them being spread out over a couple years.
You are not the only one! I have pre-ordered two sets of Superliner I cars in phase III to go with my F40PH fleet and phase VI to go with my P42 pre-order. I also have a phase III Slumbercoach on pre-order to start completing the Broadway Limited I rode in the late 1980's.
For those who have not seen this, the 3rd Rail website has been updated with graphics I prepared for Scott on the P42 schemes. A few are missing and I will be getting those to him this weekend. To be added are the P32s which will be tooled correctly for that model and include some of the commuter versions as well as the Empire Service Phase III Scheme. As can be seen, as-delivered schemes as well as the 40th and 50th anniversary schemes are being offered as they have never been done correctly at this price point before. The graphics shown are not painting diagrams and should just be considered marketing diagrams as the painting diagrams will be more refined once the project actually goes into formal design.
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@GG1 4877 that's awesome!! Thank you for -posting! I don't mean to hi-jack those awesome P42 pictures that Jonathan just posted but I have two questions regarding GGD and it's ordering process:
1.) What does standby mean?
2.) In late August/ear;y September ordered an Amtrak Budd Slumber Coach when it was on standby, it's now on the website and no longer on standby. Should I alter my previous order and re-ordder it?
On another note, definitely looking at getting some superliner 1s now as I successfully converted a 21" K-line Superliner II Sleeper that I had bought from 2 rail to 3 rail, if only my transition sleeper was 21" and not 18"!
Thanks for the info on the F40PH. I am trying to model what would have been used on the Crescent until 1993ish. Per pic of us kids in 1990 chatting with the friendly engineer on the Crescent in Greenville SC and also peaking in the cab! Regarding the Lionel F40PH, weren't they plagued with the wiring harness rubbing on the flywheel?
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I also have both the K-line F40PH(tmcc,rs,cruise), both the Lionel phase I F40PH w/ Amtrak Phase II paint and Lionel phase II F40PH w/ Amtrak Phase III and tomorrow should be receiving the NPCU. I agree that the the K-line Phase F40PH closely resembles the Lionel ph.2 F40Ph w/ Phase 3 paint(exception- the red stripe and partially the blue stripe). Lionel's product pages on the F40PH powered units actually mention "phase I and Phase II F40PH details..." which I think is cool. I'll add that I have a Railing proto 2 Amtrak PhIV F40PH and Premier proto 2 Surfliner F40PH- the PHIV looks better than the Atlas model shown(although it's obviously incomplete- I hope) and the Surfliner has prototypical horn placement- so, honestly I'm happy with both of my MTH F40PHs. Can't say the same for my NJ Transit p42, however
@P42Amtrak83 thank you for sharing that picture of that NPCU with the phase 3 paint and dark blue stripe. I had always kind of wished Lionel would've done the cabbage in a Phase IV or later scheme because that's what we see on the rails today regarding NPCUs. I understand why Lionel wouldn't do a Ph IV or later when their powered units are Phase II & III paint paint. Regardless , despite the blue stripe, Im happy to see a prototype NPCU in Phase III.
The Lionel F40PHs did have the wiring issue, but once everyone was aware of it, it wasn't too hard to fix. I wish I had picked one up at the time. For 3 rail, I believe it is most accurate model of that locomotive offered. I never see them on the resale market.
@Mike W. if you do a search you'll find threads regarding the initial shipment of Lionel's F40PHs and their issues. I Know there was something with wiring that after the first run would cause the unit to short, also believe there was an electro coupler issue that caused the same effect as well. I bought my Lionel Phase II paint scheme new and my Phase III used/LN(both over the last 7 months) and haven't had problems with either of them except for lower diesel exhaust output on the later.
@StevefromPA posted:@GG1 4877 that's awesome!! Thank you for -posting! I don't mean to hi-jack those awesome P42 pictures that Jonathan just posted but I have two questions regarding GGD and it's ordering process:
1.) What does standby mean?
2.) In late August/ear;y September ordered an Amtrak Budd Slumber Coach when it was on standby, it's now on the website and no longer on standby. Should I alter my previous order and re-ordder it?
On another note, definitely looking at getting some superliner 1s now as I successfully converted a 21" K-line Superliner II Sleeper that I had bought from 2 rail to 3 rail, if only my transition sleeper was 21" and not 18"!
Standby means that should a reservation not be picked up by a customer, that product will be released in order of reservations on the stand-by list. Just like the airliners.
I'd send an email to Scott or Shani at 3rd Rail and follow-up on your status. As I understand it, the Slumbercoaches are still open for reservations. They have not gone to design yet.
Exclusive here. You won't see this from Atlas's Railking Scale line. 
It will be up on the website by the end of the weekend along with a few other P32 offerings.
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@GG1 4877 posted:...
For those who have not seen this, the 3rd Rail website has been updated with graphics I prepared for Scott on the P42 schemes. A few are missing and I will be getting those to him this weekend. To be added are the P32s which will be tooled correctly for that model and include some of the commuter versions as well as the Empire Service Phase III Scheme. As can be seen, as-delivered schemes as well as the 40th and 50th anniversary schemes are being offered as they have never been done correctly at this price point before. The graphics shown are not painting diagrams and should just be considered marketing diagrams as the painting diagrams will be more refined once the project actually goes into formal design.
...
P40s or P32DMs not P32s. Scott has never made and at this time has no plans to make P32s or any other Dash8 diesels.
Richard - I should have put in the correct nomenclature - P32AC-DMs. Got the graphics out last Friday to Scott.
The K-Line 21" Superliners look like Phase IV to me? Can someone confirm before I order a GGD transition car?
I'm hoping the Kline and GGD won't look that noticeably different.
Thanks
