"Argument over. Are you prepared for $100+/car additional."
Yes. To finally get a car and set that looks like stainless steel instead of some dull silver paint job. Yes.
Eccentric Crank posted:"Argument over. Are you prepared for $100+/car additional."
Yes. To finally get a car and set that looks like stainless steel instead of some dull silver paint job. Yes.
Well, that makes two of us. But as you can see there are already complaints of them being too expensive as they are. I've already destroyed an Atlas CZ car trying to attach stainless foil so...
But then the complaints will be the cars do not in any way look like stainless steel.
I hope the cars number board are lit up. Also will there be the door light indicators lit up as well?
prrhorseshoecurve posted:I hope the cars number board are lit up. Also will there be the door light indicators lit up as well?
The door indicators would be cool, but I dont think they're original, so they would need to be on some, but not all of the cars.
2 more questions on features though:
1. Working end of train markers?
2. Correct underframes? They're completely different because the cars are HEP. Given the exposed nature of the bottom of the car, IMO this is really important. Also, can the underframe plate be made available for separate sale? I would buy a few of them to get HEP appliances for some other cars I'm working on.
I am a bit puzzled as everyone is asking for this detail and that detail when the actual car itself will in no way look like or represent stainless steel. So, I ask with curiosity the clear disconnect. These are the scale forums where these discussions are taking place. I will leave aside the argument whether paint or finish can be considered scale, but the premise is adherence to the prototype, no? So I will ask for a poll. What would everyone like to see in future stainless steel cars?
- Silver paint jobs that look nothing like the prototype no matter how detailed.
- A stainless steel representation that “mirrors” the prototype with increased cost
I suppose the necessary reflection is this. Would I rather own 4 passenger trains that look nothing like stainless steel, or one set that does.
Guys, I gotta tell you this story....
Many moons ago I was ordering the SF Super Chief project from our factory in China. The first Aluminum project out of this factory was the Empire State Express cars. They finished them in Nickel Plating. It had a fantastic glow and finish to it, but to bring the shine down they used a Satin over spray.
Because the cars were an amalgam of Aluminum and plastic parts, they painted the parts a similar color, and while they looked acceptable, they were not a perfect match.
The plating process was very difficult and expensive. Any impurities in the process resulted in black splotches, causing the factory to send back more than 50% of the shells to get them replated.
The 2nd project we did was the SF Super Chief cars. The same finish was ordered. The factory send us 2 samples of the aluminum finish to choose from. But what they didn't tell me was that one of them was Nickel plated and a poly clear coat, while sample B was painted.
I contacted them and commented that they looked the same, which they absolutely did. So this is the same paint, color and clear coat that we currently use on all our "Stainless Steel" Aluminum cars. Everything from the PRR Congressional, SF Super Chief 1937 and 1951, El Capitan , Budd Slumber Coaches. Note, we have never had a customer return their cars because of the finish.
The key to making these cars spectacular, is to use the same paint on all the dissimilar materials in our productions. Then the cars have a uniform, durable and proper scale appearance. IMHO.
Everyone has their own preference, but we are going to stick with what has worked for the last 10 years in our productions.
Eccentric Crank posted:I am a bit puzzled as everyone is asking for this detail and that detail when the actual car itself will in no way look like or represent stainless steel. So, I ask with curiosity the clear disconnect. These are the scale forums where these discussions are taking place. I will leave aside the argument whether paint or finish can be considered scale, but the premise is adherence to the prototype, no? So I will ask for a poll. What would everyone like to see in future stainless steel cars?
- Silver paint jobs that look nothing like the prototype no matter how detailed.
- A stainless steel representation that “mirrors” the prototype with increased cost
I suppose the necessary reflection is this. Would I rather own 4 passenger trains that look nothing like stainless steel, or one set that does.
I own Scott's El-cap. I have absolutely no complaints about the finish. When I buy more (I have a big dome on reserve) I expect to have the same finish and will be disappointed if it is different.
SS is a finicky finish to duplicate on a model. Pecos river did a plated version (early 90s?) of the superchief which looks different than the GGD finish, but not necessarily more like SS, just more metallic. When you factor in the cost per car ($250 for GGD el-cap vs $600 for PRB) its not even close for me. Factor in that GGD cars function way better and come with full interiors and the choice is even more clear. It's not a matter of 1 train vs 4. Its having an 8 car el-cap vs a 3 car el-cap.
Maybe you could give us some examples of SS finished models that truly mirror the prototype.
Within the linked thread is a quote that the finish was so difficult to pull off that the cars that have it will be the only ones that have it. For what it's worth, I have the plated AEM7 and the matching Amfleets. They look really nice.
I recall asking Maury Kline about some of K-Line's plated cars at a Toy Fair open house many years ago. He also related how difficult the process was, something about having to plate the inside surface of the mold before each injection cycle, and how absurdly high the reject rate was as a result.
---PCJ
Eccentric Crank posted:
I realize lighting makes a difference and I have never seen the MTH plated cars in person, but just comparing the pics below says a lot for me. The MTH may be more visually pleasing, but doesn't look more prototypical IMO. And the K-Line plated cars, which I have seen in person, are even farther off.
I personally don't mind the painted cars. In the right light they look close to aged stainless. I've noticed a variety of finishes on stainless cars even in the same train. Watching the Palmetto roll by BWI the finish on the two remaining heritage cars at the time was noticeably duller than the Amfleet cars, while the Viewliners were more reflective. Obviously heritage diners and baggage cars were on their way out and probably hadn't seen a wash rack in a while.
At this point, most of my "stainless" cars are GGD with the exception 6 K-Line aluminum cars which are almost absurdly reflective. Somewhere in between would be ideal, but given a choice, I prefer the painted cars.
Thats because nickel and polished aluminum don't look anything like stainless. I like my GGD El Cap cars, I think the paint is just right, I have more issues with the LED light bars in them than anything else
Matt Makens posted:Thats because nickel and polished aluminum don't look anything like stainless. I like my GGD El Cap cars, I think the paint is just right, I have more issues with the LED light bars in them than anything else
What issues do you have with the led light bars? Just curious.
Tom Taipalus posted:Matt Makens posted:Thats because nickel and polished aluminum don't look anything like stainless. I like my GGD El Cap cars, I think the paint is just right, I have more issues with the LED light bars in them than anything else
What issues do you have with the led light bars? Just curious.
They're not long enough to evenly light the whole car.
And the leds are gigantic, the lighting is the least attractive thing on the whole train
They look like this and it looks really bad
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well if you want to get serious about lighting take some time and research list site. These are supper very small LED's. I have used them for many years never burn out.
them guys name is Tim Anderson. They work great in O scale trains.
Bob Harris
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I dont need to do the research of replacing the LED's, I am familiar with the task. I dont want to change them out at all but since they look so bad its on my list of things that need to get done. Its an easy job repeated 13 times. I have all of the required componients just lack the time or desire. You cant have everything but I do wish Scott would fix this as the bars are way too short and the LEDs are gigantic. they look particularity bad in the lounge car.
well sorry to interrupt you may not have looked at the weB site., with a nice solution to the overly large LED's and Scott's light boards. FWIW the ones I use are 2x3 MM in size and you can hook up 50 on one bridge rectifier. So Show me a better solution.
Scott will never change these he is using.
Bob
Oh, I dunno, these kinda jump into my head
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I have always liked the look of a polished aluminum extrusion. But in my string of such cars there is a plated K-Line and a painted Sunset. I shall look closely tomorrow. Current plans are to have some metal PA bodies nickel plated before applying Warbonnet. I just have to find a plater.
If you don't think paint can look like metal look on the military websites and all the natural metal planes. They vary the panels to match the metal. With some buffing and sealing they make natural metal finishes look like the real thing and at 1/4 of the cost.
bob2 posted:I have always liked the look of a polished aluminum extrusion. But in my string of such cars there is a plated K-Line and a painted Sunset. I shall look closely tomorrow. Current plans are to have some metal PA bodies nickel plated before applying Warbonnet. I just have to find a plater.
Contact Passenger Train Collector.
Okay. I assume that is a person who posts here?
MTH Amfleet
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bob2 posted:Okay. I assume that is a person who posts here?
Contact me via email in my profile--he can help you.
Is now the time for finally someone in O Scale to do cars that look like stainless steel? Can they be painted? Plated? The airplane guys are doing one thing. And in HO another as those Walthers Santa Fe cars sure do look like stainless steel. Looks like MTH is even giving us something better in non scale cars. When will O scale begin to catch up?
Carl - thanks. For some reason, my iPad does not allow a lot of activities here. I can find your profile, but not your e-mail.
The ancient solution was done by Minton Cronkhite - he had cars made from "monel metal" which kind of darkens a bit like stainless.
I took a look at my Budd cars this afternoon. While I prefer the bare aluminum, my GG coach matches them fairly well. The K-Line Zephyr coach does not.
Just some recent photos from the last few years for the fun of it. No the first one isn't an Amfleet car, but you can see one in the distance. 
I've been thinking about ordering some additional sets. A phase II set and a Phase IV set would provide for some opportunities to change eras appropriately.
30th St. Station before I was asked to leave.
BWI. The southbound track was out of service that day, hence the conductor directing the engineer when to stop for the temporary platform across the track.
BWI last year with new power arriving on the northbound track.
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GG1 4877 posted:Just some recent photos from the last few years for the fun of it. No the first one isn't an Amfleet car, but you can see one in the distance.
30th St. Station before I was asked to leave.
BWI. The southbound track was out of service that day, hence the conductor directing the engineer when to stop for the temporary platform across the track.
BWI last year with new power arriving on the northbound track.
Can't wait for these cars..... I see the long distance amfleets almost every day at New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal
Notice the shine, and reflection, which to this point has not been replicated on Scale Cars in O. The closeup of the MTH looks decent, and at least is not dull. Walthers HO stainless cars are very good, especially their Metroliners. I have seen what the airplane guys are doing too for stainless. I still hope one day to get stainless cars in O scale that look something like the prototype.
Here is another pic of the MTH plated Amfleets
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My opinion is that those MTH cars look better than anything else I have seen representing stainless steel on O scale passenger cars. (The MTH cars are not scale however). A picture focused on the cars instead of the Turboliner would be nice. It would be great for someone to attempt scale cars with a better design finish with the shine and reflection of stainless.
Eccentric Crank posted:My opinion is that those MTH cars look better than anything else I have seen representing stainless steel on O scale passenger cars. (The MTH cars are not scale however). A picture focused on the cars instead of the Turboliner would be nice. It would be great for someone to attempt scale cars with a better design finish with the shine and reflection of stainless.
A friend has these Amfleets, I agree, the best looking I have seen so far. Wish they would keep producing them. You don't see them anywhere for sale. Seems like they did one run like this and stopped. Maybe it was too expensive.
Craignor posted:A friend has these Amfleets, I agree, the best looking I have seen so far. Wish they would keep producing them. You don't see them anywhere for sale. Seems like they did one run like this and stopped. Maybe it was too expensive.
The issue is that plating plastic has about a 50% reject rate. Ask Atlas about plated ATSF F7s that have yet to deliver. With the relatively small number of cars that GGD does it would add significantly to the cost. It is hard enough to get these scale offerings to the minimum required orders at the current prices. Walthers is able to do it in HO because HO runs are so much larger than O. Even then they are listed at $80 a car and Rapido is selling at $100 a car for HO.
Eccentric Crank posted:My opinion is that those MTH cars look better than anything else I have seen representing stainless steel on O scale passenger cars. (The MTH cars are not scale however). A picture focused on the cars instead of the Turboliner would be nice. It would be great for someone to attempt scale cars with a better design finish with the shine and reflection of stainless.
Crank,
Well, thats the picture I had on hand in my phone. If I get some time in my train room this week I will get some pics focused on the Amfleet
Excuses don't make great models, but I see the point. I do find it odd, in regards to the hobby that people insist on getting their Santa Fe F7s done by Atlas and 3rd Rail with correct stainless panels, to pull a dull silver painted consist. The Athearn SF plated cars are going for 65-69 bucks after a quick search. Let's see VistadomeScott's pics of those properly done Amfleet cars and admire them.
Nothing to do with excuses, its about orders.
Tom Taipalus posted:Eccentric Crank posted:I realize lighting makes a difference and I have never seen the MTH plated cars in person, but just comparing the pics below says a lot for me. The MTH may be more visually pleasing, but doesn't look more prototypical IMO. And the K-Line plated cars, which I have seen in person, are even farther off.
I think that the plating on MTH passenger cars looks best on ribbed cars vs. smoothsides. Another paint finish that I like is on my first issued MTH Railking Amtrak GG1. It has a sort of metalic look almost resembling powdercoating.
I hope to post more plated MTH pics tomorrow sometime. I also have a set of plated MARC Amfleet cars (yes I know this doesnt exist but I like them anyway)
