GGD Superliners, Viewliners, and Amfleets

Do you have the KLine superliner IIs to compare GGD cars with?

What nice cars, thanks for showing them.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Do you have the KLine superliner IIs to compare GGD cars with?

No I sold my K-Line cars when GGD announced these, but I can assure you these are much nicer than the K-Line models are not even in the same ballpark as MTH or Williams.

Absolutely beautiful cars! Love the Sightseer Lounge car, wow! The window diaphragms are an extremely nice looking feature!

3rd Rail has knocked it out of the park here!

More detailed photos of each car. Click the photos to see captions.

I had plans to keep my K-Line Superliner II's until I reviewed the sample models for these in February.  No comparison.  Even the Overland ones don't quite match the quality of these as the Overland ones do not have interiors.  I was thrilled with the outcome of these cars and those Waggon Union MD-76 trucks make the car in my mind.  It took 4 or 5 revisions in design to get it to look right and we finally found the original manufacturer's literature on the prototype to get them right.

Looking forward to receiving my Phase III cars!

@GG1 4877 posted:

I had plans to keep my K-Line Superliner II's until I reviewed the sample models for these in February.  No comparison.  Even the Overland ones don't quite match the quality of these as the Overland ones do not have interiors.  I was thrilled with the outcome of these cars and those Waggon Union MD-76 trucks make the car in my mind.  It took 4 or 5 revisions in design to get it to look right and we finally found the original manufacturer's literature on the prototype to get them right.

Looking forward to receiving my Phase III cars!

I fully agree Jonathan. Please post pictures of your cars when they arrive!

Very excited to see these out in the wild! Absolutely stunning job on the Superliners! Grateful too for the Viewliner and Amfleet round 2!

I have zero Amtrak on my layout and had zero desire to include any.  Until I saw these photos.  Amazing. 

Spectacular! Can’t wait to get mine!

Here's a video of all my golden gate depot cars, including the new super liners

https://youtu.be/zaxgp9IWKUo?si=1WdM6DzztDA1PN8i

Here's a better lit video, two Lionel cars added and consist rearranged

https://youtu.be/uV7ANfrfgH8?si=y7QtrKPafhlMhbqK

Can't wait to get mine either!!

received phase VI 6-car set yesterday.. I can't count

other than the earlier run of the LNL Acela, and a few engines, I have no other Amtrak... that I recall purchasing!  

Very nice pictures, you guys! Unfortunately, I did not have the funding to reserve these cars, or the Genesis locomotives this time around, but I'm somewhat confident it won't be too hard to get them in the future. I actually can't believe that the K-Line versions were the only actual scale-length models of these cars in 3-rail up until now. Besides that, if I felt like I had to, I would've just gotten some of the OMI Superliners and then just put 3-rail trucks on them. As long as the switch worked out fine and they performed well, I would've had no problem doing that. But for such a well-known passenger car even to this day, I just thought it was funny that we had very little examples of proper scale-length models. I know there were also longer ones made by Williams, but I know they weren't meant to be exactly "state-of-the-art".

Also, what's the minimum curve on these cars? Is it 72", or can they do 54"?

I believe the Williams 80-ft are also scale length, but no interiors.

@carnerd3000 posted:

I actually can't believe that the K-Line versions were the only actual scale-length models of these cars in 3-rail up until now.

Also, what's the minimum curve on these cars? Is it 72", or can they do 54"?

I believe the cars require 72" diameter curves.

The K-Line Superliners are excellent models, but K-Line only modeled the cars in Amtrak's Phase IV paint scheme; Golden Gate Depot offered the cars in all paint schemes (Phase I through Phase IV).

-John

Williams made 20" cars (80'). But "scale" would be 21.5" (85'). The Williams cars are basically jumbo versions of Lionel postwar-style aluminum cars, down to the lack of interiors, frosted window strips with silhouettes, and incandescent bulbs. Way back when, CTT's review likened them to disco-era platform shoes.

---PCJ

_{I have a 6-car set of the 15" versions bought upon initial release. I've never gotten around to running them.}

I can't imagine these cars doing O-54 curves, they are very big and a you can see the gap between them is fairly close to scale.

It is somewhat ironic, I was thinking how it's nice to have modern scale Amtrak equipment then I realized the real cars are pushing 50 years old, so it really is kind of ridiculous it took this long to get proper models of them. The K-Line cars were nice, but as mentioned only offered in one paint scheme and they never made the iconic lounge car. Additionally as rare as they have been on the secondhand market, the K-Line cars were going for about the same price as the GGD version.

Got my replacement for the duplicate sleeper number in so I'm up to a correct 9 car train for most Western consists. Obviously the BN F units are a little out of place, but they'll work until the P42s arrive. The lighting in the cars looks great at night! I've got over 100 scale miles on the cars so far and operation has been flawless. No grades on the carpet central, but the single powered unit has no trouble pulling the train at speed step 175 (the fastest I'll go on O-72 curves).

Attn Folks:

There are so many stand-by orders for Superliners, we are going to do a 2nd run. You can now reserve your Superliners in Phase 3, 4 and 6. Coach/Baggage, Coach, Sightseer Lounge, Diner or Sleeper or a set of all 5. The factory adjusted their prices to us, and we adjusted our prices a bit higher to keep in step with the costs. Car numbers produced will be the same as the first run.

We'll probably pull the trigger on these late this year, so reserve and save up. This will be the last run of Superliners for some time. Viewliners and Amfleets are not being produced in this run. These were already reruns.

For those of you with Stand-by Orders right now, we will wait until July 1st to consider what's in stock is available. We'll contact you in order of reservation date until all in-stock models are gone. The remaining stand-by reservations will be sent to the 2nd Run. We'll send confirmation to all of those customers when that time comes.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservationGGD.htm

To Reserve:

Scott Mann

Scott, I'd much prefer it if we did the Superliner II's before a second run of the Superliner I's as we need the Superliner II transition car for our long distance trains. That, and I'd worry that it might be harder to do an initial run Superliner II's after a large number of Superliner I's are built. These are just my thoughts, but I hope you consider this.

Superliners II’s and amfleet II’s for the viewliners would be fantastic. Also check out the golden gate depot crescent limited offering for a phase 6 heritage diner for the viewliners.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Superliners II’s and amfleet II’s for the viewliners would be fantastic. Also check out the golden gate depot crescent limited offering for a phase 6 heritage diner for the viewliners.

Also under the Southern Crescent cars are coach, sleeper as well as diners.  I have my order in.

I totally understand wanting to get a max ROI on the Superliner I tooling, but I agree about wanting Superliner IIs and Amfleet IIs to complete trains.

Does anybody know the purpose for the small bag, taped to the inside of the boxes, of the Viewliner cars, that has silver-colored stirrups and some micro-screws?

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan posted:

Does anybody know the purpose for the small bag, taped to the inside of the boxes, of the Viewliner cars, that has silver-colored stirrups and some micro-screws?

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

For install on the cars. They ship without them attached to reduce risk of damage.

@Surefire posted:

For install on the cars. They ship without them attached to reduce risk of damage.

I assumed that they needed to be installed on the cars but am still unsure about where on the cars, these needed to be installed. There are similar steps / stirrups around the baggage door openings, that came preinstalled.

I wonder if these extra parts were for use, specifically for 3-rail or 2-rail versions of these cars, similar to how Atlas-O has different details around the couplers, on their newer freight cars, depending on whether the car had truck-mounted, 3-rail, couplers vs 2-rail cars, with body-mounted couplers.

My Viewliner cars were both, 2-rail.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

Naveen-

The stirrups simulate the platform/step used when the cars are switched in a terminal or yard. If you look at the end of each car you will see a large hole with a small hole next to it; the stirrup sprue fits into the large hole, and the small hole is for the M1 screw included with the stirrups.

Each car has four stirrups; two with the screw hole drilled on the left side of the stirrup, and two with the screw hole drilled on the right side.

-John

@AcelaNYP posted:

Naveen-

The stirrups simulate the platform/step used when the cars are switched in a terminal or yard. If you look at the end of each car you will see a large hole with a small hole next to it; the stirrup sprue fits into the large hole, and the small hole is for the M1 screw included with the stirrups.

Each car has four stirrups; two with the screw hole drilled on the left side of the stirrup, and two with the screw hole drilled on the right side.

-John

John,

Thanks for figuring out the location of the stirrups.

Naveen Rajan

Can we try and put together a list of all of the roadnumbers associated with each type and phase? I'll start with the information that I have based on what I purchased and what I know a friend got. Feel free to share what car you got and your associated roadnum and I'll update the tables as we go.

* I haven't seen the box end for the amfleets yet, so I don't know how many were made of each possible type.

I'm fine with more Superliner I sets for the reasons Scott stated above. However I would like to see Superliner II transition sleepers since the Superliner I transition sleepers are not being released in phase 6. I know Amtrak doesn't always use a transition sleeper on the long distance trains, but it still looks nice. 

@seank941 posted:

I'm fine with more Superliner I sets for the reasons Scott stated above. However I would like to see Superliner II transition sleepers since the Superliner I transition sleepers are not being released in phase 6. I know Amtrak doesn't always use a transition sleeper on the long distance trains, but it still looks nice.

Sean, there is no such thing as a Superliner I transition sleeper. At the time, Amtrak was still using the former Santa Fe Hi-Level transition car for this role. This car type was only purchased in the second order, the Superliner II. Similarly, there is no Superliner II Coach Baggage car. That car type was only present in the first order. See the wiki link below for a table of the car types and numbers spread across the two orders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...er_(railcar)#Summary

The transition coach-dorms are supposed to be released with another run of the el-Capitan. (See the GGD websight) I think it would be very good if Scott was able to add Superliner II transitional sleepers to the 2nd run of Superliner I’s as a separate sale car

Here are some clips I took of my set after getting them out of the box last night.

I can post a list of all the various car names / numbers this weekend.  I selected them so I don't think that will be problem?

Now that these are finally out there, I can share some of the sample pictures I took back in February when I had some cars to review in person.  The top two photos are the K-Line Superliner II on the left and the GGD one on the right. 

For me, the lounge is a work of art in any paint scheme.  The decision was made to forgo the tinted windows because the interiors of these turned out so nicely.  The interior colors changed between Phase II-III and IV-VI and these cars capture that change.  The design and graphics of the cars underwent extensive review by Amtrak's brand manager who was instrumental in picking out the small details that aren't always easy to find in photos such as correct fonts and heights.  Also, kudos to the Asian design partners who put up with 5 rounds of corrections to the Waggon Union MD-76 trucks these cars ride on.  While the GSI-G70 trucks on the SL IIs certainly ride better in the real world, these European designed trucks are unique on passenger cars in this hemisphere.

Closeup of the interior colors on the phase II and III cars.  There were a few critical corrections made based on this photo alone.  I am very happy I had the chance to do some "rough handling" of the samples prior to full production. 

Another comparison photo with the GGD SL I on top and the K-Line SL II below.  The black trucks are correct for SL I cars in all phases while the silver is correct on the SL II trucks on the K-Line car.  The biggest distinguishing features for me are the detail of the gaskets at the windows as opposed to only the punched openings and the refinement of detail at the louvers and doors at the lower level.    

The K-Line cars were absolutely wonderful for their time, and I may yet hold onto my three phase IV coaches to mix with the Phase III and Phase VI sets I still have coming, but seeing these side by side there isn't a lot of comparison.  Being predominantly Amtrak Phase III modeler, these SL IIs just fit into the end of the period of Amtrak I enjoy the most as they were the first Amtrak cars to wear the Phase IV paint scheme in 1994.  One of the decisions behind doing SL I was the four paint schemes these cars have seen over their 45-year life span.  SL II cars only were painted in Phase IV and VI.  The big question is, will the SL fleet see a Phase VII paint scheme now that a Genesis was painted in Phase VII? 

Now onward to Genesis and Charger models!  Genesis designs are in great shape and Chargers are in progress. 

Another quick comparison video.  I got a set of Williams 80' cars at a local TCA auction for about $20 a car.  When my set arrives guess what's going back into a local TCA auction?

"Now onward to Genesis and Charger models! Genesis designs are in great shape and Chargers are in progress.

Jonathan"

PLEASE DONT TELL ME both the Genesis and Chargers will be in the same production run and arriving at the same time! [ like the viewliner and amfleet rerun with the Superliner cars/sets]!

My wallet took a big beating already!

Here are photos I took in 1980 at Chicago's Amtrak yard.  These cars had just been delivered from the Hammond, IN Pullman plant.  These interior colors lasted through the phase 2 and 3 paint scheme years.  I plan to adjust some of the seat colors in the Sightseer at some point, adding some orange over the tan seats from GGD.  The tan and reds GGD used in the phase 2 cars are good though. 

While I love the new cars, at one time there was another company that built terrific aluminum fully detailed passenger cars………….Lionel. Long ago and far far away.