jd-train posted:I would like to see a re-run of some of the heavyweight sets.....
Jim
Add me to that list. I missed'em the first time.
jd-train posted:I would like to see a re-run of some of the heavyweight sets, specifically the B&O. I not interested in the modern heavyweights.
Jim,
The 12 and 1 and 8-1-2 sleepers are available to reserve now. Coaches, head end cars, and diner and observation will probably be announced at some point.
Window arrangements are not my big deal in life, but the idea of programming a large computer driven end mill has potential.
I do my extrusions by hand on a Benchmaster with a 1/8" end mill. Takes around 45 minutes per car. Of course, when I take the time to do one, I get the windows as close as possible, usually using photos of the real thing as a guide. If GGD proceeds that way, slight variants would be no more than a couple keystrokes, as opposed to $3000 worth of tooling.
Mac Shops had about four window punches - the problem there is it still probably took 30 minutes per car to align the punch for all the windows. Adding that kind of labor makes things very expensive.
One surprising thing - the raw extrusions I have accumulated are all quite smooth, and do not require multiple coats of primer and hand sanding. Good thing - I cannot even imagine smoothing out a Budd extrusion - I have a hard enough time just polishing them.
Bob Delbridge posted:I'll take a Pullman 10-6 Sleeper like this one (SAL PORTSMOUTH
):
Not sure what other RRs used them, but I'm fairly sure not all interiors were the same. Floor plans are a necessity (BobH, you already have the PORTSMOUTH
IMO GGD could take a "common" car (at least on the outside) such as this, and with a little research/input from the gallery, offer single cars on a regular basis.
Scott has stated that this is not the way the factory works. 1000 car orders, minimum. As much as we would like single car sales I don't think they would do the job.
dkdkrd posted:OK, here's a radical idea....for example....
Santa Fe's Trains #7/8....The Fast Mail. For 45 years these trains hauled the mail from Chicago to LA, often having a length of 22 cars...or more!
OK, OK.....so they weren't your typical passenger-hauling train. In fact, they typically had but a single 'rider' car...a lowly heavyweight smoker/lounge or coach bringing up the tail end of looonnnng string of baggage, rpo, express boxcars, horse express cars, etc., of all sorts and makes. But, think about it...
So, here's the crazy rationale....
First, head-end cars get short shrift in the model offerings. They're ho-hum, boring, yawn-worthy, homely, dime-a-dozen. etc., etc., etc.. And, yet, they were immensely critical and numerous on the 1:1 rails through much of the 20th century. It's how the mail was moved, man!! And there were whole trains of these duckly uglings, running coast-to-coast....on regular schedules.
But from a model production perspective, they're sort of interesting....I should think. Hey!...no windows!! No interior lights!!...except, perhaps, on the rpo. No plethora of peoples. A few doors. Ho-hum paint/graphics. And so many variations of baggage-hauling types/makes/lengths/styles/etc., with every single daily run of #7/#8 having a unique mix of equipment.......Why, how could ANYONE argue the authenticity of the mix!?!?!? As for the rider car?......pick something appropriate. And just DARE someone to complain it's wrong!! Heavyweights, lightweights, ACF, Pullman-Standard, Budd, this class, that class......Holy Moly how can you miss????? And the possibilities and volume potential could be ginormous!!
And the Atlas, MTH, Lionel folks could do the other complementary cars for the Fast Mail that fit their production portfolios....Express Boxcars, single door, double door, 50-foot, 40-foot, appropriate mail-hauling colors, .Allied Full Cushion express trucks, .....Mercy!....it's mind-boggling what a focus on mail-hauling trains could do for this hobby....(and my wallet!).
(I tried to get the HO production crowd jacked up over this about 10 years ago........the groaning was more prevalent than the resulting product!.....How Ordinary)
And, I only pick the Santa Fe's mail-hauler. I KNOW that they were as prevalent on eastern roads, too. Which simply becomes a further multiplier of the possibilities.
I know.......dumb idea, right?
Not necessarily.
Something for rumination.
KD
Great rumination. I have made up such a train with all-PRR cars; I know one can add foreign RR cars as well.
If you model the early Fifties, as I do, mail trains are a way to run your dirtied-up T-1's, S-2 (with a bit of chronological license) and K-4's.
aterry11 posted:Martin,
Seems its just you and me interested in the Yellow kid. MTH 64 woodsides look like a lot of chopping and where would one get the arch top windows and the ovals? The Wood supplier you clued me in on has the wood sides and the beltrail but my painting skills at this time in no way match the skill necessary for such a colorful consist. I will continue looking into this one the Keystone article is one of my favorites. And then the interior what a beautifully crafted piece of work that would be!!!!
I'll probably start off with some of the La Belle open platform kits as a base, but then maybe fold in use of the ICC styrene trolley car side components to capture the arch and oval windows.....or just create my own master(s) for a window unit and cast my own components. Interiors are a whole 'nuther problem,
Rex, Seaboard only had 10, so you need to step up and buy the other 990
I wish OK Engines had the Pullman extrusions for these cars, but they don't (fluting isn't correct).
I've tried mating a Union Station Products wrapper to a plain OK Engines extrusion with the windows and doors cut out, so far it's been a dismal failure. I have one more shot at it (this car will have cost me $300+, and that's cobbled together) when I get the time.
I'd even take a car from GGD without interiors, just get the fluting and window pattern right! With Delta in the picture it wouldn't be hard to put together an interior and like Bob2 said, it's a simple matter of programming in the right window pattern to the CDC or laser machine.
I think GGD should think outside the box and present an O scale Viewliner!
With the delivery of Baggages, coaches sleepers, diners and the one coach turned Obs, it would be a unique train. Some of hese cars already have two schemes phase III and Phase IV paint schemes.
Diners:
Sleepers:
Coach:
Baggage/ Dorm:
Baggage:
Observation/inspection car to bring up the markers!
I support the post directly above. Make them from plastic, aluminum, brass, hybrid aluminum/brass, depleted uranium, I dont care. I will buy them.
Bob Delbridge - check out the extrusion K-Line used for the SP Daylight. It may not be exact, but it is a lot closer than Kasiner.
The original Kasiner was dead- on for Pullman cars other than SP. The K-Line cars were a bit more generic, with the tight window height you are looking for. If you are only building one car, you could scrape out the smaller corrugations in about an hour with some good tools.
Just to see if I could do it, I removed one flute above and one flute below the windows, and opened the windows up on an SP Observation. Turned out ok. Now I use only Speer extrusions for Daylight cars.
Bob, if I had a mill it would be a piece-o-cake. But after spending who knows how many hours removing every other flute on that OK Sun-Lounge car I made it took the fight out of me to do anything like that again. I'm surprised at how well it turned out.
My final attempt at combining the Union Station Products wrapper (correct fluting and window arrangement) onto the OK Engines aluminum shell will be to cut the wrapper into 3 pieces (roof, 2 sides) and going from there. The wrapper comes as a single piece, it might work great for smaller HO cars but there's too much area involved when trying to do an O-scale car, I ruined the 1st one.
If successful I'll FINALLY have my 10-6 PORTSMOUTH.
I'll look at the K-Line cars, haven't actually seen them up close.
dkdkrd posted:OK, here's a radical idea....for example....
Santa Fe's Trains #7/8....The Fast Mail. For 45 years these trains hauled the mail from Chicago to LA, often having a length of 22 cars...or more!
OK, OK.....so they weren't your typical passenger-hauling train. In fact, they typically had but a single 'rider' car...a lowly heavyweight smoker/lounge or coach bringing up the tail end of looonnnng string of baggage, rpo, express boxcars, horse express cars, etc., of all sorts and makes. But, think about it...
So, here's the crazy rationale....
First, head-end cars get short shrift in the model offerings. They're ho-hum, boring, yawn-worthy, homely, dime-a-dozen. etc., etc., etc.. And, yet, they were immensely critical and numerous on the 1:1 rails through much of the 20th century. It's how the mail was moved, man!! And there were whole trains of these duckly uglings, running coast-to-coast....on regular schedules.
But from a model production perspective, they're sort of interesting....I should think. Hey!...no windows!! No interior lights!!...except, perhaps, on the rpo. No plethora of peoples. A few doors. Ho-hum paint/graphics. And so many variations of baggage-hauling types/makes/lengths/styles/etc., with every single daily run of #7/#8 having a unique mix of equipment.......Why, how could ANYONE argue the authenticity of the mix!?!?!? As for the rider car?......pick something appropriate. And just DARE someone to complain it's wrong!! Heavyweights, lightweights, ACF, Pullman-Standard, Budd, this class, that class......Holy Moly how can you miss????? And the possibilities and volume potential could be ginormous!!
And the Atlas, MTH, Lionel folks could do the other complementary cars for the Fast Mail that fit their production portfolios....Express Boxcars, single door, double door, 50-foot, 40-foot, appropriate mail-hauling colors, .Allied Full Cushion express trucks, .....Mercy!....it's mind-boggling what a focus on mail-hauling trains could do for this hobby....(and my wallet!).
(I tried to get the HO production crowd jacked up over this about 10 years ago........the groaning was more prevalent than the resulting product!.....How Ordinary)
And, I only pick the Santa Fe's mail-hauler. I KNOW that they were as prevalent on eastern roads, too. Which simply becomes a further multiplier of the possibilities.
I know.......dumb idea, right?
Not necessarily.
Something for rumination.
KD
That's a great idea! I'd be in for a SF fast mail. Thanks.
"Rex, Seaboard only had 10, so you need to step up and buy the other 990"
Uh, Bob, I'd like to stay married. Divorce for a model accumulator is so darn expensive.
Not to hijack this thread, but:
Was there a Keystone article on the Yellow Kid?
Arthur Dubin's Some Classic Trains, pp 81, 82 has a near side shot of the six-car Yellow Kid (aka the Pennsylvania Limited) plus additional information and photos. The cars are closed-vestibule, all from Pullman. LaBelle offers a 70' sleeper and observation that might work, $79 per kit. The book A Century of Pullman Cars, VolII has information on cars of the 1898 era, including floor plans. Some detective work required to match the Pa Ltd consist to this information.
To attempt this train I'd be inclined to use mwb's idea of adapting trolley car windows (if they are good enough) with plastic siding, etc. The roofs are the killer for me- I despise doing clerestory roofs. Maybe do one and resin cast the others.....Interiors? Just look at photos of car interiors of that era. Lifetime project to do a train..
Rails Unlimited (as I recall) offered urethane castings of wooden cars for a Northern Pacific train. If GGD could be shanghaied into an 1890's train, the Pullman Palace cars of the era were constructed for various railroads. Might be a project in (gasp) plastic for GGD to consider. Maybe we could get Bob Heil behind a B&O Royal Blue of that era.
enclosed is article and pix of the prr keystone cars. it was lower than all other lightweights eliminating using any exiting models as a base. interesting to ride in it.
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rex desilets posted:Not to hijack this thread, but:
Was there a Keystone article on the Yellow Kid?
Yup!
The problem is color shots. As I understand it, the Mexican flag is close.
bob2 posted:The problem is color shots. As I understand it, the Mexican flag is close.
And that's why getting the information from Al Westerfield becomes important.
PRRTrainguy posted:enclosed is article and pix of the prr keystone cars. it was lower than all other lightweights eliminating using any exiting models as a base. interesting to ride in it.
Indeed it was. I rode in it from Baltimore to New York and found it to be rather harsh riding compared to The Congressional.
mwb posted:rex desilets posted:Not to hijack this thread, but:
Was there a Keystone article on the Yellow Kid?
Yup!
Yup?
Do you recall which issue?
How does Westerfield know for sure? Did they have color film then? Or paint chips?
I've seen similar threads over the years in the HO world. As a life long rabid passenger man that's transitioning to O Scale 2 Rail in addition to the HO I would offer a couple of "trains of thought". First, as previously mentioned if you're going to do the locomotives then do the cars and/or vice versa. This can be a very tall order. I was incredibly blessed to find a pair of Sunset E7As in Seaboard and then blessed again to find the third number at a show. Over the next several months I gradually aquired enough mail cars to make a nice mail train. Imagine how incredible it was to see Scott was doing the Silver Meteor. Since that announcement and subsequent pre-order I also ordered a pair of Seaboard E8As. I'm beyond thrilled with the opportunity to "finally" be able to model a Florida train.
On the flip side of all of this thought is the capacity of production runs. I could easily understand that you want to get the maximum run value out of each run. To that end I think Scott has done a marvelous job - I'm amazed at such a large production run with so many roadnames E8 wise. Still, there could be scenarios where modelers don't model the particular railroad's passenger operations, but the prototype handled them i.e. Pennsy handled SAL, ACL, and Southern trains south of New York and/or CB&Q handled GN and NP trains between Chicago and St. Paul etc. etc.
Another element of choosing a passenger train to produce should be the "flexibility" of modeling other trains within that particular railroad. Once again using the Silver Meteor example with careful consist study could order additional cars and/or sets to make a scale length Meteor, or slight alteration to attain a Silver Star. So you don't want to model a Florida train? No problem, the Silver Comet to Atlanta can also be attained using the Silver Meteor equipment. Oh wait, I model the Pennsy, I could also use a Meteor, Star, or a Comet on my Northeast railroad using my GG1s so I just ordered the passenger cars. So in effect Scott has attained three different premier trains of one railroad by carefully choosing the prototype. This same principle could be used on numerous other pre-Amtrak passenger railroad operations.
Setting all this aside I'm encouraged Scott is doing different prototypes. I could easily go for numerous other varnish down the road. My hope is 1960s variants will be produced at some point. I wouldn't rule out a future IC purchase if a City of Miami could be attained and/or a Southern Crescent. All of this said, I'm highly encouraged with the western road choices.
In another twist instead of doing complete pre-Amtrak trains, do a series with Amtrak cars such as their Heritage Fleet. I thought I remember reading somewhere that to do Amfleet or Superliner cars quite a bit would have to be made. In order to sell them do a P30CH and/or F40PH and the market is yours!
Happy Railroading!
Rex,
Spring 2001keystone. Vol. 34, #1. Did you ever get your slumbercoach underbody figured out?
bob2 posted:How does Westerfield know for sure? Did they have color film then? Or paint chips?
Given Al's propensity for research and accuracy in the production of his line of kits not unlike his efforts in the world of research related to vinegar and pickle cars, I'm actually (and rare as it might be in this case) willing to take his results and information as an article of faith.
Interesting topic and discussion.
The Rockford O Scalers are big on passenger train operation for various prototype roads, so this topic is always of interest to us. We would second the previous suggestions of anything Illinois Central and a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha of some type. A C&NW 400 would be cool too. Also of interest would be GM&O cars for an Abraham Lincoln or Midnight Special. Thinking a bit farther afield from our home base in Rockford, IL, how about a Frisco Meteor or Texas Special or a Missouri Pacific Eagle with the Raymond Lowey styling touches?
BTW, we are big fans of the GGD aluminum cars (and their plastic heavyweights, as well) and have a number of their train sets on the layout, the most recent of which is the Cincinnatian. We feel their cars offer the best bang for the money invested, considering almost all of the alternatives, with the exception of the Atlas CZ.
Southern rr tennessean would be great one too make. Scott is making E8 power for it very soon. Also the N&W J pulled this train.
The Tennessean would be a great name train for the Southern and Norfolk and Western fans!
Also here and some photos of the N&W/Wabash Blue Bird models by Union Terminal Imports delivered this past year. All sold out and in high demand!
NOTE: The Dome Parlor Car is the same body Shell is identical to the two cars built for the B&O's COLUMBIAN and the 5 cars delivered to the Missouri Pacific (IGN & T&P). The Pullman Standard cars were later sold to Central of Georgia in 1969 and transferred to the Southern in 1970. so this car alone could have 6 different paint Schemes.
Stephen
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Well, those look like they could compete with GGD - but they did not advertise anywhere I look, so I assume it was extremely low production and a thousand bucks a car? And what's with the Atlas coupler?
Bob: The couplers are Kadees. I believe Atlas or GGD could do the Blue Bird Justice with very little machine/die work.
Stephen
Wabash Union Pacific passenger cars are few and far between and go for premium prices when they turn up. I purchased the few UP coaches and sleepers that GGD produced, but an accurate set of modern excursion cars would be welcome. Would look great behind the Sunset E9 ABA set I have on order now.
nw2124 posted:The Tennessean would be a great name train for the Southern and Norfolk and Western fans!
Also here and some photos of the N&W/Wabash Blue Bird models by Union Terminal Imports delivered this past year. All sold out and in high demand!
NOTE: The Dome Parlor Car is the same body Shell is identical to the two cars built for the B&O's COLUMBIAN and the 5 cars delivered to the Missouri Pacific (IGN & T&P). The Pullman Standard cars were later sold to Central of Georgia in 1969 and transferred to the Southern in 1970. so this car alone could have 6 different paint Schemes.
Stephen
Nw2124 your-comment is not valid in regards to the T&P MP Ign. They were sold to the
Illinois Central. You might want to post correct information, or not at all. This is why I have
no credibility in you helping Sunset 3rd rail/ GGD on projects.
Bill
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Bill: The information QUOTE came from the "The Offical Pullman Standard Library" Please write the library and have them correct the information. Car LOT 6904, Plan 7551B - Wabash car, Plan 7551A for the IGN & T&P cars. ( PS52-1414-001). Again information for the Pullman Standard Library.
Therefore my credibility stands FIRM!
Stephen
So why would you want Atlas or GGD to do those fine cars if Union Terminal Station has already done cars to meet your desires?
Bob2: The cars by Union Terminal Imports are HO Brass cars. I posted the photos to show what the N&W Blue Bird cars would look like. If a quality set was done in G Scale I would purchase those as well.
I sent Scott the list of all the road names that could be done with the Blue Bird cars. I have not heard back.
Stephen
Anyone know what PSC will do next? Or their list of projects.
nw2124 posted:Bill: The information QUOTE came from the "The Offical Pullman Standard Library" Please write the library and have them correct the information. Car LOT 6904, Plan 7551B - Wabash car, Plan 7551A for the IGN & T&P cars. ( PS52-1414-001). Again information for the Pullman Standard Library.
Therefore my credibility stands FIRM!
Stephen
Well then they got it wrong. You provide me a photo painted in the CG for a Mopac T&p or Ign
and I might retract my statement. So until then your credibility is still in doubt. Your statement is solely based on a bad publication and editing error. There is nothing in any of my 50+ years of modeling these three prototypes that says other wise. You provide the data for CG.
At least I provided the pictures in IC.
This type of stupidity falls along the lines when Atlas did the RS 3 models, they went to Robert L Hundman for the plan data, well guess what . His drawing was out of scale due to publication tweaking.
He was notorious for bad drawings for scale.
So all the RS models were and are 3 feet short.
Bill
Bill
The N&W dome cars could be done with short and long name boards........thus allowing Scott to make more domes for people to chose from or buy them all.
I still would like some SCALE Amfleet coaches and diners..........you need them to go with the viewliners and the last of the heritage cars.
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Well worth a look at union-terminal-imports.com website especially further down under the heading SP PAs-More Details, these guys have done their homework on all variations of the models they are producing and bear in mind these are HO models [ obviously along with Division Point and the Coachyard they are serving a high end collectors market large enough in this scale to support itself ] just saying!
Regarding the suggestion of doing Illinois Central cars in O Scale, although they are somewhat rare, they are not unheard of. The Rockford O Scalers have managed to collect a 12 car train from various sources over the past few years. These are mostly Walthers heavyweights plus a few Ken Kidder lightweights and even one custom built 50ft IC prototype center door baggage car. Refer to the photos below for an example of each of these categories. Like any model, the quality of the finished product varies greatly depending on how well these kits were built and painting IC cars can be tricky to get the brown and orange colors as correct as possible. We are lucky that most of the cars in our train look pretty good, but one or two have colors that are not correct. A set of IC cars by Sunset 3rd Rail would be fantastic, but probably unlikely. However, we are looking forward to receiving our Sunset E8/E9s in both IC and Central of Georgia.
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