Good one way, not so good the other.

I also when looking in the forum using the search feature, and found this:

 

"Over night my engine stopped running smoothly. It obviously lost contact with the sensor pick up attached to the motor. I turned the flywheel by hand watching for the red led to blink as the stripes passed under the sensor. The red led only blinked on approximately half turn of the flywheel. I thought perhaps the sensor had moved but it was still intact. I put a new tape on the flywheel and now its perfect again. How in the world can a tape go bad. I thought I'd post this in case any of you experience the same issue befor ripping out the electronics."

So, I wondered if something like that might be the problem. I opened the locomotive, and the only thing I could see that looked different from one side to the other was that the wire attached near the flywheel seemed closer to the flywheel on one side than the other. Photos attached. #1  shows both sides at the same time, #2 and #3 the individual sides. I have no idea, though, if this means anything.

B&OBill

I'd move them a little farther from the flywheel, that does look pretty close.

It is possible that the red wire is too close. Depending on direction the Flywheel is either pulled down, or pushed away (thrust from the gear lash).  The other difference is the Motor controller FETs.  There is a pair for forward, and a pair for reverse.  They could be going bad.  Move the red wire first:-).  G

Thanks, guys. I took your advice and carefully moved the wires away from the flywheel. see photo. No change in operation at all. Still runs smoothly and steadily backwards, needs constant tweaking of the control wheel in forward, or it comes to a stop.

 

G, what are FET's?  

 

Off to ride the (real) train tomorrow, will work on this more next week.

 

B&OBill

FET is just a type of transistor on the motor control section of the board.  This could be mechanical too, so some investigation on the drive wheels, gears are worth examining.  G

My experience is running better one way better than the other is usually mechanical.  I have had them not move at all in one direction when one of the drivers was cooked.

Bill

 

I would remove the motor and then check the drive train to include the smoke unit for any spots that bind when turning the wheels. You will probably find that it turns freely. 

  Check the motor, you will probably find a slight ruff spot when turning the armature one way and not the other. I have changed a few of these motor for the smae problem you are having. If the motor is bad I would suggest you take to your local repair guy for replacement, reason being, the gear is pressed on the motor and has to be remove for placement on the new motor.

 

Bill 

Bill, G, GRJohn, thank you all for the comments. I'll put them into practice this week.

 

We'll see what turns up.

 

No O-gauge this weekend, but had a nice trip to Newport News and Norfolk on restored PRR coach "Franklin Inn." When I get the photos done, I'll put some on the "Real Trains" forum. Saw the Tide in Norfolk.....that would be a good vehicle for O-gauge!

 

Since I was in "Navy Country," I had to wear my ship's cap. <G>

 

BandOBill

Bill, Wow,  Lionel doesn't send motors with the gear on it?  How hard is it to pull and what is used to press the new one on?  G

G

 

  Only a few do you need to pull the gear. I have a small puller to remove the gear and flywheel, I use my HH press to install. The only problem and it's nothing really, you have to knurl the motor shaft and use loc-tite on the flywheel if you don't have a new flywheel.

 

Bill

Bill,  Thanks.  I have asked about the flywheels before.  Do they come off easily?

 

Is there a specific tool you use in the HH to press the worm gear on?  I would be afraid the motor shaft might get bent.  Good to know this can be done.  G

GGG,  There is this method which may work.  Put the motor in the freezer and put the flywheel in a pan on the stove or in the oven.  When you think it's time, you have to work fast, put heavy gloves on and put them together quickly.

G

 

  I have a flat machined anvil and I use the axle tool to install. As long as you are careful, you shouldn't bend the armature as they are really not that tight.

 

Bill

"This concerns the C&O Hudson, 6-28008,  that I had repaired recently."

What repairs were done?

"There is no issue in conventional."  Does a mechanical issue hold water?  I'd look for an antenna problem.

Mark, this is the locomotive that lost all functionality after a derailment. It was speculated that transient  high voltage from my ZW had fried the electonics. That seemed to be the case, and the LHS guy replaced them and it works...except for that funny glitch in forward in TMCC. I would tend to agree, if it was mechanical, I would think conventional would also show the effects. But, if antenna, why in only one direction?

I will play with it some more today since home from work and too hot for anything outside.  If all else fails, will have LHS guy take a look again on Saturday.

 

I have since purchased a TMCC direct lockon for added protection.

 

B&OBill

 

P.S. I have also enlisted the help of the O-Gauge Railfan. He was down checking things out.........(photo)

Bill, Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.  Mark, good catch, I missed the runs fine in conventional.  I do think that would eliminate mechanical.  That would also indicate the motor drive board is probably fine.  I would swap out the R2LC.  G 

BANDOB, It sounds more like a DCDR issue than anything, directly related to heat. The triacs used for forward motor control are getting hotter faster, thus they become less efficient and the motor slows the longer it runs. In reverse the triacs either do not heat up as fast OR are properly heat sunk, thus dissipating heat more efficiently. My recommendations are 1.) remove the DCDR from the heat sink and add additional white heat sink paste. 2.) replace the DCDR and add heat sink paste as in 1 above. If you have any questions please feel free to contact Lionel Service Mike Lionel

Thanks, Mike. I see that I can get the paste at Radio Shack, so I will try what you suggest. My LHS repair guy at MBKlein is Lionel-certified, I believe. What he did was "replaced PCB-board" and "replaced command board."

 

BandoBill

 

Mike,  So why the difference in conventional versus command?  Does it have to do with PWM in command?  G

 

BTW... The white thermal grease is not the best choice!

 

If you want to know what is... call me or email me, you have my contact info...

 

PS - Still hope to see you soon, next week...

The white thermal grease works fine.  While there are slightly more effective choices, the difference isn't huge.  I happen to use Arctic Silver 5 for mine since I got to using this for processor installations, but Mike's suggestion is fine.

Just got back from LHS. C&O Hudson #306 demonstrated its issues perfectly on the test layout: ran great in reverse, would not hold speed in forward when in TMCC. Repair guy agrees with mikado that it is probably a DCDR issue. He will investigate.

He also said; 'I've never seen one do this before." 

 

Thanks again for all the great comments and suggestions. I'll let you all know the outcome.

 

B&OBill

you do know that mikado is Mike Reagan, Lionel's director of repair services .

I'm sure he does, since Mike signed his previous response in this thread.

Yes, I was very appreciative of his reply. I shared his comments at LHS, where he's known. He is probably spot on.

 

You guys are really a great group. 

 

B&OBill

It still begs the question why it runs fine in conventional, but not TMCC.  If the Triacs are the issue, why do they over heat with the PWM of TMCC, but not during conventional.  I look forward to what the tech finds out.  As I said in my original post the Motor driver transistors could be the issue, they don't always just fail.  I have seen the Full wave bridge rectifiers do the same thing.   Thanks for keeping us updated.  G